USCG Warns Positive Test for Pot Could......

Yeah, and don't try to cross the border from Washington to Canada with your stash. It's legal in both places but you can't take your stash with you if you're going either direction.

Drug testing is common in many industries, not just the maritime industry.

I retired ten years ago from a contractor working in the LA area refineries. There was a consortium of contractors in that area that all did pre-employment drug testing and subsequent random testing. A positive test for illegal drugs including cannabis was an immediate no hire or dismissal for a current employee.

There is some justification for this position even for personnel who are not directly involved with operating critical refinery processes. A dozen years earlier before drug testing became common, I was in charge of a construction project in rural Arkansas. We were having a rash of relatively minor on the job injuries: twisted ankles, slips and falls resulting in back pain, etc, many of which we thought were fraudulent. We had a workforce of a couple of hundred construction workers then.

One Friday we announced that the following Monday all employees would have to be drug tested. About 1/3 of the workforce didn't show up and another 10-15% of those who were tested, failed and were terminated. By the end of the week the accidents had stopped and we got as much work done by the remaining 50% of our workforce as before with 100%.

I am not saying that smoking cannabis caused all of our problems then. I do believe that then, the type of person who smoked regularly wasn't that skilled and reliable an employee as one who didn't. No matter, it worked for us.

I havn't followed the law since I retired and maybe in California where cannabis is legal, you can't fire or fail to hire an employee solely because they smoke.

Anyone know?

David

All employers test for cannabis, alcohol and other intoxicants when there is an on the job injury. It is an excellent way to save money on insurance costs and workman’s comp. They really like the current state of cannabis testing since legal consumption within the 3 to 4 weeks before the incident will look like it was used immediately before. A real money saver!

Pot stays the longest in your blood of the common drugs.

there is going to have to be some sort of reckoning with the difference in time between detectability and impairment. If you smoke on Friday night, you will not be impaired at work on Monday, but you'll still fail a drug test. I suspect some deep pocketed person will get arrested for driving while impaired on canabis, and the issue will reach the Supreme Court.

I don't smoke but it is legal here. If something is legal it shouldn't jepoardize your job.

Benthic2 said:

there is going to have to be some sort of reckoning with the difference in time between detectability and impairment. If you smoke on Friday night, you will not be impaired at work on Monday, but you'll still fail a drug test. I suspect some deep pocketed person will get arrested for driving while impaired on canabis, and the issue will reach the Supreme Court.

I don't smoke but it is legal here. If something is legal it shouldn't jepoardize your job.

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My first thought was what about the poor guy who goes to a party on the weekend and encounters some second hand smoke and then gets fired on Monday. That one will surely end up in court. This whole thing has been poorly thought out.
I don't think Canadians are any better off in that respect.

Lepke said:

Pot stays the longest in your blood of the common drugs.

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While yes cannabis lasts longer than most, that chart is grossly over inflated for cannabis unless it's for a full time habitual user with a fair amount of excess body fat. A 300lb, 3x per day person, yes. Average person, no.

For an occasional, not obese, cannabis user 10-14 days is the range to clear for a urinalysis. If you are particularly lean occasional consumer with a high metabolic rate it can be as little as 3 days. The cannibanoid "residue" that urinalysis tests for is stored in fat cells and is secreted over time- timeline varies dramatically depending on genetics, body fat percentage and activity levels.

Most of the other drugs listed seem high for time to clear, but I'm not informed enough to know for sure.

For the record, I'm completely against BUI regardless of substance. But if you're a cannabis user, be aware the current regulations are stacked against cannabis more than any other substance.

djmarchand said:

Drug testing is common in many industries, not just the maritime industry.

I retired ten years ago from a contractor working in the LA area refineries. There was a consortium of contractors in that area that all did pre-employment drug testing and subsequent random testing. A positive test for illegal drugs including cannabis was an immediate no hire or dismissal for a current employee.

There is some justification for this position even for personnel who are not directly involved with operating critical refinery processes. A dozen years earlier before drug testing became common, I was in charge of a construction project in rural Arkansas. We were having a rash of relatively minor on the job injuries: twisted ankles, slips and falls resulting in back pain, etc, many of which we thought were fraudulent. We had a workforce of a couple of hundred construction workers then.

One Friday we announced that the following Monday all employees would have to be drug tested. About 1/3 of the workforce didn't show up and another 10-15% of those who were tested, failed and were terminated. By the end of the week the accidents had stopped and we got as much work done by the remaining 50% of our workforce as before with 100%.

I am not saying that smoking cannabis caused all of our problems then. I do believe that then, the type of person who smoked regularly wasn't that skilled and reliable an employee as one who didn't. No matter, it worked for us.

I havn't followed the law since I retired and maybe in California where cannabis is legal, you can't fire or fail to hire an employee solely because they smoke.

Anyone know?

David

Click to expand...

David,

Good points. Personally, I don't care if someone smokes, drinks, does drugs, so long as it doesn't affect their performance on the job. The CG can threaten anyone, but it's NOT their job to hire and fire people. If drug testing is required then that's part of the job requirement and you don't have to take that job if you don't want to comply.

However, employers CAN discriminate against you if you smoke (even cigarettes), regardless if its legal or not. They an also discriminate for a number of things as long as it's not the protected rights by law. You can discriminate against red hair, tattoos, ugliness, fat people etc., etc. and I did in my business if I felt it was bad for business.

In my small business, I would not hire a smoker. They stunk and I didn't permit smoking anywhere on the premises. Never had an issue. However, I could care less it they did drugs as long as it didn't affect their work.

"At the start of 2019, the Coast Guard announced that the minimum random drug testing rate would increase to 50% from 25% where it had been set for five years."-from the Professional Mariner.

Benthic2 said:

there is going to have to be some sort of reckoning with the difference in time between detectability and impairment. If you smoke on Friday night, you will not be impaired at work on Monday, but you'll still fail a drug test. I suspect some deep pocketed person will get arrested for driving while impaired on canabis, and the issue will reach the Supreme Court.

I don't smoke but it is legal here. If something is legal it shouldn't jepoardize your job.

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Reading djmarchand`s post, it seems the issue is less related to legality and more related to work safety and efficiency.
Just because something is legal can`t mean an employer and employees have to accept dangerous co workers in the workplace.

Merchant Marine certification is Federal. As long as cannabis is illegal federally, it will be prohibited and it doesn't matter how long it stays in your bloodstream or fatty tissue.

I live in Canada where it is Federally legal. However where I work we are subject to unannounced searches, sniffer dogs, and random testing. My understanding is that my company uses swab testing as it is more indicative of impairment as opposed to general usage. Can't drink on site, even when off work either.

Seevee said:

David,

Good points. Personally, I don't care if someone smokes, drinks, does drugs, so long as it doesn't affect their performance on the job. The CG can threaten anyone, but it's NOT their job to hire and fire people. If drug testing is required then that's part of the job requirement and you don't have to take that job if you don't want to comply.

However, employers CAN discriminate against you if you smoke (even cigarettes), regardless if its legal or not. They an also discriminate for a number of things as long as it's not the protected rights by law. You can discriminate against red hair, tattoos, ugliness, fat people etc., etc. and I did in my business if I felt it was bad for business.

In my small business, I would not hire a smoker. They stunk and I didn't permit smoking anywhere on the premises. Never had an issue. However, I could care less it they did drugs as long as it didn't affect their work.

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X2.

Another small business owner. As long as your free time hobbies don't interfere with work, I don't care if you're closing the bar down every night.

I had an employee that was into psilocybin (magic mushrooms) in a BIG way. He was always on time, and an excellent employee. He later started his own company in the same field, we parted on good terms, and he's doing well to this day. Still into shrooms. You either have a self destructive personality or you don't. If you do you'll find trouble no matter the situation. If you don't, you can do things outside of the "law" and still have a completely productive, happy life.

I do discriminate against the obese and against cigarette smokers in my company. And only because personal experience has taught me to do so. The latter generally take too many "smoke breaks" to be effective, and I hate the smell (I also smoked as a young adult but later quit -it's a nasty habit). The former rarely have the motivation to perform- if they won't even try to take care of themselves why would they bother to take care of their job?

A block from my home is a drug rehab center. It is very busy, filled with blue-collar clients. Seems white-collar workers aren't tested much.

markpierce said:

A block from my home is a drug rehab center. It is very busy, filled with blue-collar clients. Seems white-collar workers aren't tested much.

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It depends, like most things. When I was a white collar salaried engineer there was a preemployment test, and then an annual random test in which I was picked roughly every other year, maybe every third year. The testing company came on site and picked their "random" people and tested them on the campus.

I later started my own company as a contract engineering house. We go in and program machines in a union factory environment. We are required to submit a clean (within 30 days) drug screen for safety training for every factory we go to which is due annually. You know a year in advance when the drug test is coming. The union employees are subjected to a preemployment screening. Once they are hired they will never have to test again- unless they get hurt on the job.

In the case of injury it's immediate drug screen at the hospital, niether contractors nor union employees get a reprieve. But if you are a union employee and announce before you pee that you want to enter rehab then your failed screen can't be used against you and you have 90 days to produce a clean urinalysis.

This is a backbone industry of the American economy that has been around since the early 1900s. Movies have been made about this industry. Companies this size want workers that can show up and produce, they couldn't care less what happens on free time if it doesn't affect production.

Greetings,
I suppose there have to be some "standard" that can be applied for ALL mind altering substances but therein lies the problem IMO.
As mentioned the retention time for pot is potentially weeks and a positive test is NO indication of any level of impairment. It only signifies that a person has been in contact with pot at some point either from direct use or second hand smoke.
Similarly, I think we all know of high functioning alcoholics. They, evidently, are able to perform their duties with a BAC that would disable the average person.
So, where does one draw the line?
Complicating the whole mess is the legality of pot consumption whether at the state or federal level. While illegal federally, a person can consume for medical reasons.
The mind boggles...

Wifey B: The CBD is going to get lots of people in trouble with the tests. Although the THC isn't adequate to get high, it's enough to show up. Even Burger King talking about a CBD burger.

We're going from one bad habit to another to another. Vaping is so unhealthy. As to Marijuana, the permanent experiment has very bad results so far. ER admissions and rehab admissions are way up in Colorado. The thoughts that it was just making it legal to do what people were already doing were wrong. I was in favor of decriminalizing it, but totally legalizing has dire consequences.

On boats and crew jobs and such, we have no tolerance. In our stores and factories, we don't care what drugs one does on their own time if it doesn't impact their work. However, alcohol and pot do impact the work of many. The reality is the performance of regular pot users isn't good.

It's sad that on one side we have those trying to deny weed to those who is can really be of medical benefit and on the other side we have it permeating the lives of our young people more than most imagined it would or could. We give regular courses on drug use, including alcohol, to our employees and it does help. We even encourage, if they must use, use the nights that they don't have work the next day. For those who use daily, it becomes pretty obvious. One other thing we require is if you use, then shower and put on clean clothes before coming to work or you'll end up being sent home. Our no smoking policies extend to no smell of smoking.

I do hate the lives we've negatively impacted in our society of casual or occasional users. Records that they can't escape, totally inconsistent with their crime.

There will be young crew who think they can beat the tests. A huge market for kits including purchased urine. They're destroy their careers with even one indiscretion. I don't have answers for this, but it's a very sad situation and I do hate seeing young people develop problems.

BandB,

And it's not only young people.... most of them pick it up from older people and a lot of them never quit.

It's a problem in retirement homes.

Benthic2 said:

there is going to have to be some sort of reckoning with the difference in time between detectability and impairment. If you smoke on Friday night, you will not be impaired at work on Monday, but you'll still fail a drug test. I suspect some deep pocketed person will get arrested for driving while impaired on canabis, and the issue will reach the Supreme Court.

I don't smoke but it is legal here. If something is legal it shouldn't jepoardize your job.

Click to expand...

Last I knew it still violated federal law. So even though the feds are currently taking a hands off approach in states that have “legalized “ it, I’m pretty sure an employer is well within their rights to use this as a basis for employment.

Greetings,
Ms. WB. Ah yes. I'd forgotten about the CBD "everything" trend. I don't really care one way or the other about a person's personal "choices" but touting CBD as a beneficial additive to anything that can be readily marketed to and accessed by the general public is just ludicrous IMO.
All it's going to take is one unscrupulous or ignorant manufacturer adding impure (containing detectable levels of THC) CBD to their product and the excrement is going to hit the rotating air movement device.


There already have been cases where people have eaten poppy seed bagels and failed drug tests.
Mom in labor tests positive for opiates after eating poppy seed bagel

Compounding the situation further are false positives for drug tests.
False-Positive Drug Tests: What Can Cause Them? - GoodRx


Guilty until proven innocent much?

Benthic2 said:

If something is legal it shouldn't jepoardize your job.

Click to expand...

Silly notion.

The list of legal drugs and substances that cause impairment is very long. For your next plane trip do you want your pilot popping prescription pain killers, sipping scotch from the cart or injecting morphine?

Or long haul truckers munching Benadryl. All manners of job occupations are impacted by ingestion of legal substances that are short and long term harmful. Work rules and contracts cite dismissal for on the job impairment. It has been this way for a very long time and will remain so..

BandB said:

Wifey B: The CBD is going to get lots of people in trouble with the tests. Although the THC isn't adequate to get high, it's enough to show up. Even Burger King talking about a CBD burger.

Click to expand...

I was wondering about this. Does drug screening test for THC or CBD or both? How long does each remain in the user's system. CBD appears in many products today. I hear the arguments against CBD, but it doesn't appear to impair the user, correct? Do the tests differentiate between THC and CBD?

Strange country we live in where science and laws are often incomplete or inconclusive and we really on the courts to decide so much.

Tin Man said:

I was wondering about this. Does drug screening test for THC or CBD or both? How long does each remain in the user's system. CBD appears in many products today. I hear the arguments against CBD, but it doesn't appear to impair the user, correct? Do the tests differentiate between THC and CBD?...

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My understanding is that CBD should have little to no THC.

This drug testing website, https://www.usdrugtestcenters.com/drug-test-blog/181/can-you-fail-a-drug-test-due-to-cbd.html,

According to Quest Diagnostics Director of Science and Technology, Barry Sample, CBD likely won’t show up on a drug test: “If the product contains only CBD and has had the THC removed, then an individual being tested would not be expected to test positive for marijuana or marijuana metabolite.” In other words, marijuana drug tests screen for THC, not CBD.

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Most hemp oil or CBD products are usually sold with much lower levels of THC (compared to marijuana), so most CBD consumers won’t have trouble passing a drug test. For those using extremely high levels of CBD or hemp oil (over 2,000 mg per day), it’s possible, though unlikely, that this could produce a “false positive” result on a drug test. Even then, a follow-up test can provide more conclusive results.

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I don't consume anything that would have THC or CBD so I have no dog in this hunt.

I do wonder if the CBD products are being truthful regarding the level THC in their products...

Later,
Dan

Tin Man said:

I was wondering about this. Does drug screening test for THC or CBD or both? How long does each remain in the user's system. CBD appears in many products today. I hear the arguments against CBD, but it doesn't appear to impair the user, correct? Do the tests differentiate between THC and CBD?

Strange country we live in where science and laws are often incomplete or inconclusive and we really on the courts to decide so much.

Click to expand...

Wifey B: The tests are for THC. However, CBD products may contain traces of THC and then you get into the whole question of thresholds.

Drug testing for sports is like one huge nightmarish clusterf too. Athletes being suspended over many legal products. Almost need a scientist to test supplements before they take them.

Then there are those employers who use drug testing as some sort or moral initiative having nothing to do with the job but yet their morals don't give second chances and don't give employees a chance at rehab.

All our employees with USCG licenses, including the two of us, get tested and it's among the most inclusive and rigorous tests. Our OTR drivers are tested.

We don't have random tests for our store employees, but we have what, for lack of a better word, I call "sniff" tests. Managers can smell marijuana but we don't want the odor of pot or tobacco. We also can smell or detect alcohol. However, our intent isn't punitive. Take the day off and go home. We'll arrange transportation. If you have an addiction, we'll help you. That's the problem with so much testing and drug policy is it's not helpful, but just punitive.

Then one asks what about coke and ecstasy? As employers, we don't care. As humans, we do care if you've got a problem. But their occasional use doesn't adversely impact work performance. If anything they may help you.

Football teams shooting players up with serious drugs but suspending them over weed is insane and has nothing to do with the game or the good of the player. Now, auto racing does have a need to test for and suspend for an extensive list of drugs.

Thing is, overall, we're doing a lousy job of educating and treating. Instead we've filled our jails and prisons and we've put Scarlet Letters on kids who smoked weed. We try to educate our employees by teaching the real dangers, not the perceived ones, and teaching that many self medicate with alcohol and drugs and need instead to get help for the real problem. While weed is definitely a safer anti-anxiety med than Xanax, it's not a long term answer and both weed and alcohol are contraindicated for depression. While the vast majority of people do see physical health specialists, very few see mental health specialists and the need is likely greater. Why is it considered a character flaw and why isn't a broken bone or the flu considered one?

The abuse of drugs, including alcohol, (not talking about the occasional or managed use) continues to rise and until we address the underlying causes, we'll continue to make no progress. It's not a problem the courts can or will ever resolve, but one we must address through education and assistance.

dannc said:

I don't consume anything that would have THC or CBD so I have no dog in this hunt.

I do wonder if the CBD products are being truthful regarding the level THC in their products...

Later,
Dan

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Wifey B: Is any supplemental manufacturer truthful? Athletes flunk drug tests regularly through supplements having things not listed as being in them. They're not controlled in the same way as prescription drugs. Regularly those pushing supplements to help with sex are found to have snuck in a little sildenafil.

Then, even if the CBD manufacturers were 100% accurate, various drug tests have different thresholds for THC. The ones used by the USCG have no tolerance. It's like flunking someone for alcohol because they used a mouthwash. Try it, use a mouthwash and then immediately blow into a breathalyzer. Won't show a .08 but will hit a .01 or .02.

Anytime you take a supplement, you can't be sure of exactly what is in it, or how much. If you're taking a daily vitamin and it varies slightly, then no big deal. If you're taking a supplement for bulking up or injury recovery, don't be surprised if some steroid was slipped in or testosterone. If you're using CBD then don't be surprised if one supplement has more THC than others.

dannc said:

I don't consume anything that would have THC or CBD so I have no dog in this hunt.

Click to expand...

Wifey B: I don't either because of my Captain's license, but if I had cancer and was undergoing chemotherapy, you can be darn sure I'd be consuming some THC and if I'd gotten shot in Iraq and watched my best friend killed there, and THC in the form of weed helped me with PTSD, darn right I'd use it.

What about Cortisone shots?? They make me high for days-----also impetuous - bad judgemental--nervous ------for my arthritic shoulder allowed by Dr every three months.

BandB said:

Wifey B: The CBD is going to get lots of people in trouble with the tests. Although the THC isn't adequate to get high, it's enough to show up. Even Burger King talking about a CBD burger.

We're going from one bad habit to another to another. Vaping is so unhealthy. As to Marijuana, the permanent experiment has very bad results so far. ER admissions and rehab admissions are way up in Colorado. The thoughts that it was just making it legal to do what people were already doing were wrong. I was in favor of decriminalizing it, but totally legalizing has dire consequences.

On boats and crew jobs and such, we have no tolerance. In our stores and factories, we don't care what drugs one does on their own time if it doesn't impact their work. However, alcohol and pot do impact the work of many. The reality is the performance of regular pot users isn't good.

It's sad that on one side we have those trying to deny weed to those who is can really be of medical benefit and on the other side we have it permeating the lives of our young people more than most imagined it would or could. We give regular courses on drug use, including alcohol, to our employees and it does help. We even encourage, if they must use, use the nights that they don't have work the next day. For those who use daily, it becomes pretty obvious. One other thing we require is if you use, then shower and put on clean clothes before coming to work or you'll end up being sent home. Our no smoking policies extend to no smell of smoking.

I do hate the lives we've negatively impacted in our society of casual or occasional users. Records that they can't escape, totally inconsistent with their crime.

There will be young crew who think they can beat the tests. A huge market for kits including purchased urine. They're destroy their careers with even one indiscretion. I don't have answers for this, but it's a very sad situation and I do hate seeing young people develop problems.

Click to expand...

CBD Hemp contains less than .03 THC. Period. Test on CBD will not reflect THC over that amount. Period. In direct conversations with State of Alaska certified drug test providers, there has been no test locally where CHB has been detected as a hallucinatory factor. Add this to multply sources confirming that statement.
https://www.usdrugtestcenters.com/drug-test-blog/181/can-you-fail-a-drug-test-due-to-cbd.html

https://www.thecannabist.co/2017/03/10/marijuana-drug-test-cbd-cannabidiol-positive/74014/

And last, the Cascades of articles confirming the content of CBD/THC.

https://duckduckgo.com/?q=drug+testing+for+marijuana++where+CBD+is+involved+facts&t=h_&ia=web

As clarification- Yes, I use CBD at the rate of 100mg daily for arthritus, blood pressure, and pre diabetus. My wife is using for Parkinson's where her tremors are now nil, her night mares have ceased, and her sleep habits are back to normal.


It is my opinion too often opinions are just that without doing any personal due diligence.

RT Firefly said:

The mind boggles...

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Ha! I see what you did there...

Benthic2 said:

Court. If something is legal it shouldn't jepoardize your job.

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Unfortunately or maybe fortunately, pot heads are not a legally protected class. If it does not offend the law, private companies are free to place whatever restrictions they chose on employment.