Maintenance on stabilizers?

While looking at a new boat to me, it did not have stabilizers. Something I wanted. The owner said maintenance on them has to be done every 5 years at a cost of 30 grand. True or false? 48ft.

FALSE.

Good grief, did he have his fingers crossed behind his back when he said this?

Thanks Menzies. I figured as much. Boat shopping is tough business. I walked away on that one. I have another in my sights WITH stabilizers.

If they are active stabilizers, about every 4 to 5 years the seals should be changed. we had this done with bottom paint. it added about a boat unit to the over all cost of the bottom paint.

Ka_sea_ta said:

If they are active stabilizers, about every 4 to 5 years the seals should be changed. we had this done with bottom paint. it added about a boat unit to the over all cost of the bottom paint.

Click to expand...

And how much is a boat unit? Never heard the term.

Donna said:

And how much is a boat unit? Never heard the term.

Click to expand...

Break out another thousand

Ka_sea_ta said:

Break out another thousand

Click to expand...

Of course. That’s not bad then.

Hello Donna,

I have Wesmar hydraulic stabilisers.

They were installed six years prior to the purchase of my 40 year old boat.

I reckon the previous owner had never serviced them, so the first seal and bearing replacement would have been at 8 years. We also found and repaired some fin shaft corrosion. Two years later the seals, bearings and corrosion were OK and I plan to check them again in a year's time, meaning an average service interval of say, 3 years.

BTW for me, removing the fins is not a DIY job.

I wouldn't be without stabilisers. They make a huge difference, and well are worth the extra service time/costs - but then I'm crazy enough to own a wooden boat!

John, it would help Donna if you shared the cost - because clearly it wasn't 30K!

Maybe shoot her a pm?

menzies said:

John, it would help Donna if you shared the cost - because clearly it wasn't 30K!

Maybe shoot her a pm?

Click to expand...

Good point!

Different time, different continent, but I seem to remember an additional day plus around Au$1800.00 on top of regular haul out.

Donna said:

And how much is a boat unit? Never heard the term.

Click to expand...

one Nautical unit =$1000

Donna,

The seal replacement can also be done by the boat owner. We have ABT TRAC stabilizers. ABT TRAC offers a free class and essentially teaches you how to do, what needs to be done.

A counterpoint for professional service could be not having the right tools and a helper, or running in to the ever-present “unforeseen obstacles”...but, does not have to be an expensive service affair in all cases.

Good Luck

Stabilizers are very high on my list of equipment for the next boat too!

Recently I watched/helped a friend replace Naiad seals on a Nordhavn 40. The job was surprisingly quick and easy...a few hours per fin, and we weren't rushing or particularly well versed in the process.

It did require a few specialized tools and a (borrowed) pallet jack to help handle the fins. Larger fins would be more difficult to wrestle on and off but I know owners who do it.

Replacing bearings is apparently more involved. I'm sure other things can go wrong, but I haven't heard of anyone approaching $30k in stabilizer maintenance, even when replacing entire electronic control boxes or fins.

I`ve no experience with stabilizers and interested in how they are powered. One boat of the class that interests me has a Gyro Seakeeper which I think was said to run on engine generated while running 12v. What does it run on if anchored? A genset, or turn them off and get rolly?
I`d be concerned about running a genset just to feed the stabilizers. Are some hydraulic and powered off the engine? It`s certainly worth thinking about for anyone interested in stabilizers. Of course some boats run a "small" genset 24/7,a larger one when required, so it may not be an imposition for those boats.

Seakeeper's will generally use 2500W, or more. So yes, likely that you will need to run a genny when anchored.

Naiad's, and ABT Trac & Wesmar are typically hydraulic although recently I believe electric is an option for some models. CMC Marine took out a patent in Europe for electric stabilisers, much to the chagrin of the hydraulic stab folks. Not sure if the patent is still being challenged or not. GyroGale are air powered. Early versions were tricky to get set-up and keep adjusted correctly, not sure if current models are more reliable or not.

Typically solid-state accelerometers are used to detect rolling motion very early and allow high fin deflection quite quickly. Hence active fin stab's are very effective. Early models used gyro's instead of chips, and are less responsive although still quite good. Conversion from gyro to chip versions is relatively expensive - typically 75% or so of a new 'black box' system.

For my Naiad's, service of seals is scheduled at 3 year intervals, at which time inspection for anything else would be made. When researching I found that $850 was expected cost for seal replacement. Initially I was invoiced for over $1300, which I regarded as excessive, although I was partly to blame for a second visit being required. After some emails it was reduced. Next time I will likely get my usual yard to do it rather than the local Naiad guys. They had 2 guys at very high hourly rates. The yard guys rates are cheaper, and i can be the second pair of hands when needed. Mostly the work just needs one guy. The cost is mostly labour.

My Naiad's cost about $30,000 to buy 6 years ago. Maybe that's the aspect that was mis-communicated to Donna. It cost about the same in labour to fit them (retrofitting is always an interesting challenge!) including the hydraulic system to run them.

Greetings,
Ms. D. We had our Naiad's serviced (seals and bearings) about 10 years ago? to the tune of $4K (I think???). So far so good. Good grief! Don't EVER get old young lady.

I have Wesmar's. I'll be servicing them when I haul in May. The Wesmar's differ in that service requires dropping the fin out of the hull to change the seals. There's also a Duralon composite sleeve bearing in the hub that is subject to maintenance replacement. Recommended service interval for seals is 3-5 yrs. It can be a DIY if you have the mechanical skills. The fins are awkward to R&R, so either a jack or two able bodies or a combination of both. Mine are not easy to access inside the boat, I could not get to them if I were a big guy.

Mine are also due for some work on one ram, and probably the oilite sleeve bearings on the hydraulic rams. They're getting some play and that translates to noisy operation. If I had to pay the yard for all the work, I expect it would add about $2K to haul cost. I do most of the work myself, I'll have help to R&R the fins, MUCH easier with an extra set (or two) of hands to guide the shaft into the housing.

I would not be without the stabilizers.

BruceK said:

I`ve no experience with stabilizers and interested in how they are powered. One boat of the class that interests me has a Gyro Seakeeper which I think was said to run on engine generated while running 12v. What does it run on if anchored? A genset, or turn them off and get rolly?
I`d be concerned about running a genset just to feed the stabilizers. Are some hydraulic and powered off the engine? It`s certainly worth thinking about for anyone interested in stabilizers. Of course some boats run a "small" genset 24/7,a larger one when required, so it may not be an imposition for those boats.

Click to expand...

Most active fin stabilizers are hydraulic powered. Typically, there's a pump that mounts to a PTO on the transmission. The system has a solenoid that unloads the pump when the system is not operating. The fin actuators usually have a hydraulic ram that connects to a splined fitting on the fin shaft. The mount is very beefy, as you might expect given the forces that are involved. Most systems have some sort of pin that can be engaged to lock the fins in center position if the system becomes inoperable for whatever reason.

The effect with active stabilizers is dramatic. In a seaway, all you need to do to demonstrate the effectiveness is to turn them off. Instantly stuff starts moving...


One advantage of the gyro systems is that forward movement isn't needed to be effective. (Not to be confused with gyro sensing in a fin system.) They'll function at anchor (I'm told). The drawback is the need for the generator operation. I'm also told they can take up to 45 min. to spin up to optimum effect, active fins are instantly responsive.

All of you are great! Thank you so much!! Stabilizers it is! I’ve rolled in the Caribbean before and it wasn’t pleasant. My fault, I was trying to beat some incoming weather.

Last fall we were quite interested in purchasing a vessel that had air operated stabilizers. The company that makes the unit is Gyro Gale. A large air cooled compressor was in the ER to provide the high pressure air.

The vessel had two nice JD 6068s with plenty of PTO capability for a hydraulic powered setup so was puzzled as to the recently installed air powered units. Different strokes. Had the stabilizers been Wesmar, ABT et al we very well would have made an offer on the vessel.

Would not be without my stabilizers. My current boat (under refit) had Naiads and they are 1981 'ish. I have just had extensive work done on them including new bearings , seals, shaft's and top plates inside, also rams, The list is long, total price was 16K. I might add that the stabilizers had not been touched for decades, and corrosion was extensive. The job was not a 2-3 year maintenance situation!

Have you looked at adding a Gyro unit such as a Seakeeper, compared to fins?

Donna said:

All of you are great! Thank you so much!! Stabilizers it is! I’ve rolled in the Caribbean before and it wasn’t pleasant. My fault, I was trying to beat some incoming weather.

Click to expand...

Back in December we did a major upgrade to OLOH's WESMAR stabilizers. We detailed our decision making process here and the installation process here. Hopefully you'll find some useful info in what we wrote.

The boat I’m looking at tomorrow has Naiads. I’ll be looking for corrosion. Boat has only 1250 hours on each engine and 1680 on the generator. I find the engine hours suspect in a 1990 built boat. We shall see. I’m in no rush but will purchase as soon as the right one comes along. Survey of course.

Where are you going to keep this one?

BruceK said:

I`ve no experience with stabilizers and interested in how they are powered. One boat of the class that interests me has a Gyro Seakeeper which I think was said to run on engine generated while running 12v. What does it run on if anchored? A genset, or turn them off and get rolly?
I`d be concerned about running a genset just to feed the stabilizers. Are some hydraulic and powered off the engine? It`s certainly worth thinking about for anyone interested in stabilizers. Of course some boats run a "small" genset 24/7,a larger one when required, so it may not be an imposition for those boats.

Click to expand...

WOW...…….stabilizers that run and effectively work @ anchor !!!
well you can just learn something wonderful everyday.
I have heard big boats pull up near me in FNQ and I always thought they had the aircon all night as I could hear the exhaust bubbling on and on and on.
Makes flopper stoppers redundant I guess.
Many of the bigger boats have a gen set running all the time (day and night) when anchored so having stabilizers that work @ anchor would be a godsend.

Donna said:

The boat I’m looking at tomorrow has Naiads. I’ll be looking for corrosion. Boat has only 1250 hours on each engine and 1680 on the generator. I find the engine hours suspect in a 1990 built boat. We shall see. I’m in no rush but will purchase as soon as the right one comes along. Survey of course.

Click to expand...

There was a GB42 with stabilizers for sale here. Genset hours well exceeded the engine hours, and the genset was said to be a reman. The hours may not be so out of proportion.

Donna said:

The boat I’m looking at tomorrow has Naiads. I’ll be looking for corrosion. Boat has only 1250 hours on each engine and 1680 on the generator. I find the engine hours suspect in a 1990 built boat. We shall see. I’m in no rush but will purchase as soon as the right one comes along. Survey of course.

Click to expand...

Try to determine whether it has the older gyro-based naiad controls, or the newer electronic controls, I think called "datum". I know a number of people with the older gyro based control and the gyro's are prone to small oil leakage. Apparently repair is very expensive, and seldom lasts long, if it even makes a difference at all. Most owners have learned to live with the oil leaks and just change out absorbent pads.


The gyro control can be upgraded to the electronic control, but it's quite expensive. $20k-$30k sticks in my mind.


I wouldn't necessarily reject a boat with the gyro control, so just file this under knowing what you are getting.

twistedtree said:

Try to determine whether it has the older gyro-based naiad controls, or the newer electronic controls, I think called "datum"...

The gyro control can be upgraded to the electronic control, but it's quite expensive. $20k-$30k sticks in my mind.

Click to expand...

For what it's worth, the new WESMAR electronic gyro and control system that was part of our recent upgrade linked above is compatible with many fin stabilizer systems other than WESMAR. Cost for that upgrade is roughly $15K.