Cell phones on Watch

Good Evening All,
I took a quick trip to the Bahamas last week, and my crew and I discussed how much attention to a cell phone is permissible on watch. It might depend on traffic, and location. It seems to me that one should be able to go three hours without using a cell phone, and that it is bad practice to use one while on watch.

Agreed. There is enough responsibility and electronic stimulation on watch, especially within mobile phone range of shore. Gauge scans, engine room rounds, deconfliction with commercial traffic, etc...IMO more fun than the phone anyway.

Interesting, cell phones have never been an issue for us. Other than an occasional phone call or looking up a quick fact phones are mostly ignored. Maybe it’s because we have too many obstructions in the water up here.

If you are on watch, part of that job is looking out for debris in the water, other boats, and the events that happen aboard. Your life isn't on a cell phone. Grow up. Don't go to sea until you do.

Geez!! Such seriousness!

When on watch I read books, or occasionally watch a movie on my ipad. Often times I am visiting one of the several great forums I frequent.

At 8 knots you will flat die of boredom if all you do is stare at the ocean and your nav system.

Agree Kevin. I work from the boat and wife is retired so underway we both watch or she watches while I work. 7.5 knots is slow and in many of the areas we transit traffic is rare. If we can see two boats that would be a lot except during a commercial opening.

Tom

I'm going to be the waffle in this black and white discussion so far...they aren't banned but need to be limited.

I agree there is no place for losing focus on the safety of the boat. (A part of my work is at an airport with an FAA control tower. There are no cell phone even ALLOWED in the cab. They get one daily newspaper and that's it.)

At the same time, 7 knots is pretty dang slow. You really have to slouch to miss things, assuming you have a layered lookout. (That 30 kt Northriver full of drunk guys can close on your 7 kt boat in a hurry!)

That said, on our recent trip, I spent the first 4 hrs at the helm, because there were narrow passages and ferry boats and a lot of turns to make, plus I've got a new-to me radar and a new AIS system to learn. Even when we got to a large expanse if water, there was still that other boat, that commercial ship to clear before I turned the helm over to the admiral and took a break for a bit. It was busy enough I wanted to stay focused at the helm. (Later I'll get the admiral more engaged in the busier navigation times, she's letting me have all the fun right now!)

But I'll look at my cell while at the helm. I'm not posting on facebook, but returning a text, or switching the tunes to a new playlist (yes, there's an app for that!) or something.

I think it all depends on the situation, and calls for judgement. If you are in an active waterway, dodging lobster/crab buoys or debris, then put down the phone, stop carrying on conversations, and pay attention. If you are in open water with nothing around, then reading TF, texting, email I think is fine as long as you are looking up with some frequency. Heck I have even stepped down to make a sandwich or throw something in the microwave. But I do return to the helm while whatever is heating up, then go back to get it when done.


Here's one thing to consider. I have been on multiple night runs where it is pitch black out. You can't see anything. And I mean nothing. There could be a brick wall in front of you and you wouldn't know until you hit it. In that situation you are operating solely on radar, and faith that the ocean is reasonable clear of debris. It's a calculated risk. I think this helps put a pee break, or use of a phone in perspective when there isn't traffic or other active maneuvering required.


What I very much object to is taking a nap while at the helm. That's not stepping away, or looking away for 1-2 minutes. A lot can happen during a nap. This in turn rules out single handed operation longer than one can reasonably stay alert. I think all these single handed races and other distance feats should be scorned, not celebrated.

#firstworldproblems

Is a cellphone any different to a kindle, a book, a logbook, a chart, a chart plotter?
As long as you are alert and watch is maintained.

twistedtree said:

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Here's one thing to consider. I have been on multiple night runs where it is pitch black out. You can't see anything. And I mean nothing. There could be a brick wall in front of you and you wouldn't know until you hit it. In that situation you are operating solely on radar, and faith that the ocean is reasonable clear of debris. It's a calculated risk. I think this helps put a pee break, or use of a phone in perspective when there isn't traffic or other active maneuvering required.


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And to go a step up again i have sailed catamarans and trimarans in several hundred mile races where speeds have peaked in the 20's day and night, no radar, just observation of the blackness.
Hell, we even sailed our own 30ft cat 1000 miles to Vanuatu doing double figures most of the way with nothing more than paper charts a hand held GPS and half a clue.
Looking fwd copped a face full of water more often than not, couldn't really see squat.

Back to where we are now doing overnighters at 7.5 knots, reality is we are not seeing anything in or on the water unless its big, like a 12 ft boat big and even then.......
Its just the way it is. Deal with it or stay home I guess.

. . What I very much object to is taking a nap while at the helm. That's not stepping away, or looking away for 1-2 minutes. A lot can happen during a nap. This in turn rules out single handed operation longer than one can reasonably stay alert. I think all these single handed races and other distance feats should be scorned, not celebrated.

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So I guess I shouldn't mention the thousands of miles single handed on our cat and the plans to be the first single handed circumnavigator of Australia in one. (-;

Wow. Timely. And from the other end.

I started getting texts today from a boating friend and while I was at home, and I knew he was supposed to be somewhere between Vancouver and Ketchikan. He's on a recreational inside passage trip in marginal weather. The gist was it was so boring, that some communication aided in focusing and staying centered.

He's an experienced skipper and large boat owner, though actually crewing on this trip - so why not let him judge his limits and needs? He darn well knows what it takes to keep the alert at the right level. If texting me back in Seattle to b**ch about things or share jokes keeps the attention up, why not?

Geez!! Such seriousness!

When on watch I read books, or occasionally watch a movie on my ipad. Often times I am visiting one of the several great forums I frequent.

At 8 knots you will flat die of boredom if all you do is stare at the ocean and your nav system.

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Exactly. I almost once went flat-out mad going outside from Atlantic City to Block Island delivering to race week when the wind died on a bag-powered NY 36 racer/cruiser. I think the NY 36 one-design came with a single-cylinder diesel and a 3 pint fuel tank, so - ughhh. I think we were able to keep Moriches Inlet in sight for about a day and a half. If there had been heroin on board, I think I might have done it (joke). Had I cell coverage and a phone, things would have been much more stable, pleasant, and safer.

There's a difference between a periodic distraction and a dependence (addiction). When it becomes the "Cellular Leash", it's time to turn it off for a while.

Ted

Simi 60 said:

So I guess I shouldn't mention the thousands of miles single handed on our cat and the plans to be the first single handed circumnavigator of Australia in one. (-;

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No, mention it all you want. I know my opinion isn't going to change anything. And I'll try not to harp on it.

I'm curious whether the 'crew' the OP is referring too are teenagers or millennials. This seems like it would be one of those conversations that if the captain or boat owner said "No phones while on watch" whether I agreed or disagreed the reply would be "OK"

This sounds like there was pushback on the watch rules.

So which "evil" is worse, falling asleep of boredom on a passage or using other outside stimuli to stay awake.. texting, books, movies, talking on the phone.. or vhf for that matter?


Some of it is dependent on the person at the helm.. I have had crew aboard that could loose focus looking out the window and run into stuff without ANY distraction.. I had to catnap in the bridge to make sure they didn't do something stupid. Of course this no doubt dropped off my sharpness as fatigue is cumulative.


Offshore I often watch a movie when on watch, mostly I listen to it and keep an eye on the ship but I do glance at the screen at times. I believe it keeps my brain active and engauged which keeps me more attentive. Would I do it entering the bay of Panama at night with 30 ships moving about in all directions.. nope that would be just stupid.



I have seen some skippers decree some of the dumbest ideas to their watches in the name of keeping attentive that it actually works in the opposite direction.



HOLLYWOOD

twistedtree said:

What I very much object to is taking a nap while at the helm. That's not stepping away, or looking away for 1-2 minutes. A lot can happen during a nap. This in turn rules out single handed operation longer than one can reasonably stay alert. I think all these single handed races and other distance feats should be scorned, not celebrated.

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As a single hander that is rapidly approaching my ability to activly cruise long distances your statement above is something I am having to put into my trip planning.

Fortunately in my profession I work a 12 hour shift and bounce between days and nights constantly. This means I have trained my body to be up for 24 hours at a time and still make life or death decisions and handel complex situations. This “body training” will help when I leave Alaska but age will start to be an issue as well.

Really single handeling means route planning that does not require staying at the helm longer than ones body can stay alert. I agree napping is not acceptable, at least for this sailor.

There are solo artists blowing their way across the Pacific as we sit here. I wonder if they are on their phones during these 20 day crossings? When they are awake, that is....

Simi 60 said:

Is a cellphone any different to a kindle, a book, a logbook, a chart, a chart plotter?
As long as you are alert and watch is maintained.

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Excellent point!

diver dave said:

There are solo artists blowing their way across the Pacific as we sit here. I wonder if they are on their phones during these 20 day crossings? When they are awake, that is....

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Where was this girl when I was looking for crew?



HOLLYWOOD

diver dave said:

There are solo artists blowing their way across the Pacific as we sit here. I wonder if they are on their phones during these 20 day crossings? When they are awake, that is....

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This

Interesting question. I think there are many factors, but a complete ban seems overly strict to me I find I'm able to check texts, get wind/tide/Google maps, plan stops, etc with minimal distraction while underway and it's a useful tool. In that context no more distracting than the MFD. But I have self-imposed rules against reading anything long or writing or playing games while underway, because I know that I'm not very good at multitasking.

There are similar debates in many areas. People are walking into traffic while staring at their phones. Distracted driving is a big cause of fatalities. But chugging along at 8 knots in open water is not usually something that requires razor-sharp attention

twistedtree said:

Here's one thing to consider. I have been on multiple night runs where it is pitch black out. You can't see anything. And I mean nothing. There could be a brick wall in front of you and you wouldn't know until you hit it. In that situation you are operating solely on radar, and faith that the ocean is reasonable clear of debris. It's a calculated risk. I think this helps put a pee break, or use of a phone in perspective when there isn't traffic or other active maneuvering required.

What I very much object to is taking a nap while at the helm. That's not stepping away, or looking away for 1-2 minutes. A lot can happen during a nap. This in turn rules out single handed operation longer than one can reasonably stay alert. I think all these single handed races and other distance feats should be scorned, not celebrated.

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Given what you've described, why not set your radar and AIS alarm on those pitch black nights and grab a nap? I mean that as a serious question. What additional risk does that introduce? If you have systems that you trust and you're in open water why not sit on the couch and read a book for half an hour at a time?

I'm planning to do a couple of 300 mile solo sailing races on the Great Lakes this summer. These events get a dozen or more competitors. I think most veterans are more concerned about going overboard than hitting something while sleeping. There are various sleep management schemes but you've got to sleep over the 2-3 days they typically take.

I understand there's a difference between a 3 ton sailboat and a 40 ton power boat. I'm not too worried about sinking someone else with my 31' boat. And I think I can manage risk with good instrumentation and alarm systems and regular napping.

Sorry to drag the thread off topic, but I've been thinking lots about this lately. I don't think it's hugely irresponsible. Not trying to celebrate this activity, but don't think it ranks particularly high in terms or risk, particularly to others.

Anyone who has been behind another car at traffic lights waiting for the driver to stop messaging or get off Farcebook after the lights go from red to green,knows there is a problem. Usually requires use of the horn.
Same goes for people head down screen watching, walking head on into other pedestrians.

ksanders said:

Geez!! Such seriousness!

When on watch I read books, or occasionally watch a movie on my ipad. Often times I am visiting one of the several great forums I frequent.

At 8 knots you will flat die of boredom if all you do is stare at the ocean and your nav system.

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Kevin, I bet after you put the hook down, you have a single-malt scotch to relax?

Might it make sense to limit use of cell phones in places like the ICW, where there is often traffic, and the channel can be narrow and shallow, while allowing them in the ocean? I have sometimes listened to a book on tape with one AirPod while crossing an uncrowded open area.

Heck, get 25 or 30 miles off shore and going away, the problem takes care of itself.

Ken E. said:

Kevin, I bet after you put the hook down, you have a single-malt scotch to relax?

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Sometimes A nice scottish ale or good stout is also nice!

Mostly depends on the person....focusing on experience, training and discipline.


Some people can't multitask at any time doing anything, others are impressive.


Know thy crew..... then figure out works for them.... not rules just because there is "risk".


If you believe in monitoring every risk, you would have a live engineroom watch and someone roaming too.... which I feel is almost as important as looking ahead. Plenty of ships crews with multiple sets of eyes miss stuff all the time or make bad judgement calls despite the sighting info...but more boats I know get into serious trouble from what happens below decks.

ksanders said:

At 8 knots you will flat die of boredom if all you do is stare at the ocean and your nav system.

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Agreed. You can't let yourself get so head-down into your cell phone, book, tablet, whatever that you fail to actually keep a watch. But it is entirely possible to do a good job of watch-keeping while still doing these other things.


Indeed, as you imply with your comment about dying of boredom, I think a reasonable distraction can actually keep you MORE alert on a long, boring watch. It's a matter of balance (as with so many things).

The only distraction I would allow is music at low volume; no headphones or earbuds. One night crossing on a friend's boat the person on watch had a kindle and music w/ headphones. He never noticed the port engine oil pressure gauge dropped to zero (blown oil hose) until a very loud banging noise ($24,000.00) woke everyone up.
In our area of the Gulf, Louisiana waters, there is as much boat activity at night as there is during daylight. Oilfield supply vessels, 100s of shrimp boats and a huge fleet of sportfishing boats can be found along the coast to over 75 miles offshore running at night, not to mention all the oilfield structures lit and unlit. A quality Radar at night becomes the co-captain of your ship....along with a good vhf.