Anchor chain swivel good idea or not?

Hi members, I was trying the anchor out on my new boat and found that when I winch in the anchor it was some times the wrong orientation and we woul gave to use a gaffe to turn it around so it could be brought up properly. I was thinking that a swivel between the anchor and chain might make it easier.. will this affect the anchor biting in and holding?
Cheers

Groove the roller solved it for us.
No swivel required.

Swivels can serve a purpose unless, as an addition to the anchor rode,they fail.I favour the old fashioned steel figure 8 type,but there are more modern s/steel "anchor connectors" some good,some problematic, some rated some not.

Simi 60 said:

Groove the roller solved it for us.
No swivel required.

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I agree. I used to have a swivel, thinking it was essential, until enough on here queried it. So, as I had a grooved roller, and thinking it through, it did occur to me that as long as you have all chain, and set the anchor up so the shackle when in correct position has the links vertical as they come up over the roller, they should then keep the anchor lined up correctly. This in fact did occur most of the time.

On the odd occasion it didn't just a half turn with the boathook was all it took to straighten the anchor up. So, yes, like Simi said.

But if you still have issues, then get the best swivel possible, don't skimp, or it will be the weakest point. Make sure no side load would fall on the swivel if things are not in line when the tension goes on the anchor. That is, moves freely in the anchor slot with tension in all directions.

A single point failure could cost the boat.


Not a risk I would willingly take.

Properly installed and checked, plus maybe oversizing, I don't see them as a big risk except in severe weather. You can remove it for those occasional events.


A groove didn't solve my twisting problems so the swivel was the answer.


An inexpensive, oversized, figure 8, galvanized one works just fine and has survived many wind and tide shifts for years now with no rust and no failure imminent.


If you anchor is mostly mild conditions which for loopers and snowbirders isn't tough, no need to overthink the whys and why nots.

Jason Steele said:

Hi members, I was trying the anchor out on my new boat and found that when I winch in the anchor it was some times the wrong orientation and we woul gave to use a gaffe to turn it around so it could be brought up properly. I was thinking that a swivel between the anchor and chain might make it easier.. will this affect the anchor biting in and holding?
Cheers

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We use a swivel, for just that reason. Our mixed rope/chain rode also doesn't contribute to consistent chain lay on the gypsy... and I think the anchor balance itself is a factor.

Lots of pros/cons discussed in MANY "swivel" threads on cruisersforum.com (sister site; can't remember if there are many swivel threads here). Upshot appears to be:
1) some insist they're crap, weakest link, etc.
2) some insist they're great (or at least OK)
3) you get what you pay for, and prices vary from $ to $$ to $$$$
4) swivel jaws should not be attached directly to the anchor shaft

There are a couple of non-swivel (?) solutions that are meant to control anchor direction as you bring it in. One is a flip link by Anchor Right (too long for our situation), and the other is a shorter thing that flips the anchor similarly (but I forget the name of that one, haven't explored it).

The Ultra swivel apparently positively control anchor orientation -- whereas the swivels I've used don't; they only allow easier rotation. OTOH, the Ultra swivel is big $$$$ and I wouldn't be thrilled about stainless.

I don't remember seeing much comment about whether a swivel would/would not impact setting/holding.

-Chris

Use this

Mantus

I disagree with the "you get what you pay for" theory here.

I the failures I have most often have heard is from some of the pricier models that "look pretty" but either had manufacturing flaws, design flaws or unsuitable materials. They sometimes have "hidden" components not easily inspected and therefore neglected.

The basic galvanized and inexpensive ones shouldn't be any weaker link than the shackles most people used. Simplicity and materials are common denominators.

Those that have reported failures with this type, I bet are the same ones using chain that has links so wasted its a miracle the anchor could even be retrieved. My PO for example had great looking chain except for a couple of links buried in the pile that may not often had seen daylight. and when they did, if you missed them going overboard....holy cow.

I 'second' motion 30's comment. Mantus is the way to go.

From the antidotal reports I have read, the cheap galvanized swivels are the ones that usually fail. The center bolt or pin usually gives up. but it's your money choose what you wish

Being an old rigger, I don’t particularly value any extra fail point in my tackle, but I do admit to adding a Manson unit (pictured above) to my primary anchor (also a Manson). It’s a well thought-out design for the purpose, IMHO.

Another vote for the Mantus (not Manson) swivel. Far better design to avoid the side loading that has bent other swivels (Kong type) in my experience.

As you rotate around your anchor with each tide change, your chain gets twisted. If you only anchor within a single tide change, this isn't a problem, but anchoring for several days between weighings, can cause several full rotations.
Depth is also a factor. if you are usually in deep water, you have your twists over a longer rode than in shallow water. Once the anchor is off the bottom it can untwist. Hoisting slowly, to allow the anchor to spin, may be a viable solution, or not, as your typical depth decreases.
Here is SW BC, typical anchoring depth is 30' to 75', which is plenty to allow the anchor to spin off any twists as it rises.
I have a non-grooved roller. My CQR frequently rises facing backwards, but corrects itself with a foot of stock over the roller. No twist arrives at the gypsy.

I find that just using two screw pin anchor shackles allows enough play and rotation to orient our anchor. At most the anchor is out of alignment by 180 degrees. We have a grooved roller and I installed new chain 2 years ago. When I installed the chain I made sure there were no twists. We were anchored for over two months in one location last year and our boat was turning in circles due to winds and tides every day. Aside from the barnacles on the first 60’ of chain, there were no issue with the chain twists working themselves out by the time the anchor reached our bow roller.

motion30 said:

From the antidotal reports I have read, the cheap galvanized swivels are the ones that usually fail. The center bolt or pin usually gives up. but it's your money choose what you wish

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Guess my google is different...and for the comparitive numbers of cheap ones in service compared to "yachtie" types....I still think the over-engineering of many is their demise.

My summary was just meant to give a back-of-the-envelope overview of opinion in various swivel threads on forums...

I passed over all the points about breaking strength versus chain versus side pull on swivel jaws (for those models that have jaws) versus bending shanks etc yaddy yaddy yadda. Mostly the threads seem to get religious pretty quickly, just like anchor threads.

I only have direct experience with Kong and Suncor swivels, no problems with either of those... but that's an observation, not a recommendation.

-Chris

motion30 said:

Mantus

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The mantis looks like it worth a shot. I like thee design. Not so worried about the cost I’d rather know the boat is safe.
Thanks for everyone’s input I really appreciate it.

Cheers

If you want to know the boat is safe don't add a potential fail point.

Ok, who here has first hand experience with a failed suitable swivel? Not one that is undersized, old or otherwise overlooked - just a plain old failure of a decent, well tended swivel.

My Kong failed, and so did my boat buddy's. Side loading badly bent them, to the point where they looked like they could easily have come apart on the next such occasion.

Both were attached directly to the anchor, which I now know was not a good thing - but that's how they seem to be intended. The excessive side-loading could have been avoided by a piece of chain between swivel and anchor - but why not a design that eliminates that need?

The Mantus I've been using for a few years now attaches with its built-in shackle, and is far less subject to side-loading problems.

I maintained a hurricane type mooring for 15 years using three Danforth anchors, 3/8” chain, all connections made with galvanized shackles and closed eye swivels.
Lesson learned, don’t use china made shackles and swivels. Also use closed eye shackles not the pin type.
Moose the screw in shackle pins with monel or s/s wire

RCook said:

My Kong failed, and so did my boat buddy's. Side loading badly bent them, to the point where they looked like they could easily have come apart on the next such occasion.

Both were attached directly to the anchor, which I now know was not a good thing - but that's how they seem to be intended. The excessive side-loading could have been avoided by a piece of chain between swivel and anchor - but why not a design that eliminates that need?

The Mantus I've been using for a few years now attaches with its built-in shackle, and is far less subject to side-loading problems.

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Seems like a fair point. Kong instructions do address that... but as you say, it just looks like they ought to be installed directly onto the anchor shank.

That Mantus swivel looks different; shape doesn't invite direct attachment. I'd guess intentional.

-Chris

As sailors for many years and now the captain of a Fleming 55 I can say that we have had too many anchors arrive upside down. While not an issue in calm conditions it can add a challenge in a crowded anchorage with current and wind. I installed a Mantus last year and love it.

That said it is a must to be inspected after and before each deployment.

Another vote for the Mantus Swivel.

I switched out a very good quality swivel for the Mantus when I changed from a Rocna to a Spade anchor. (The Spade had a thicker Shank and the old swivel would bind when side loaded.)

The Mantus is very robust and does not bind with side loads. By my reckoning it is NOT the weak link in my all chain 5/16" G4 HT chain.

-evan

Denpooch said:

I 'second' motion 30's comment. Mantus is the way to go.

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Third the motion. It’s a great product.

Paul

Going to go with mantus... though a good quality swivel 3 foot from the anchor could be an idea.... being set back might elevate some of the side pressure..?

https://www.sailmagazine.com/diy/anchor-swivels-keep-your-boat-safe-by-using-them-correctly

Some things to think about is side loading of swivels, they should have shackles on the ends. I am in favor of the simple figure 8 shaped galvanized swivel.

I do not have an anchor swivel but I also dont have a lot of chain in the water.

Multiple sources talk to added a few (4-12 links) between the anchor and the swivel. IF you put a good quality clevis on the anchor, then 4-12 links of chain, then the swivel, another good quality clevis (Crosby, etc), and then the rode....putting a side load on the swivel is near impossible. A side loading will kill a swivel....don't do it!

I’ve used the Ultra Marine Flip Swivel for over two years now. It is heavy duty and is designed to flip the anchor over to the correct orientation just before crossing over the anchor rollers. On our prior boat, we constantly had problems with anchor facing the wrong way. On the new (to us) DeFever with all chain, never have a problem. It is not cheap, but in my opinion, we’ll worth it.

https://www.ultramarine-anchors.com/flip-swivel-hook

Cheers, Gary