Marina dilemma

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Craig Schreck

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Joined
Jan 18, 2013
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Location
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To start if by any chance anyone already knows anything about the following issue I request that the Marina name isn't posted publicly...I personally feel that it is unethical & it is not my intent to hurt their reputation... Hurricane Florence & coastal Carolina was an event at this Marina, the yard hauled many boats just before the storm in a area prone to flooding from a NW wind. My best guess is that the yard "on the hard" is less than 6 foot above sea level with a 9 to 12 foot flood forecast days before the storm. the storm resulted in an 11 foot serge with many boats floating off their blocking and settling down either contacting other boats causing damage or in very close contact with causing no damage... My boat was involved in this mess but after the storm was over it was not damaged but in close contact to a smaller 30 foot sailboat … less than a 1/4 inch from his rub rail to the fwd star side of my boat .. a have a trawler that remained on its blocking without shifting. a large crane was employed to lift the boats for re blocking or launching as needed... The yard crew spotted for the crane as ground crew... In the process of removing this sailboat the AL grip paint was effected in several spots requiring repainting... the irony of this deal was I just finished buffing the hull weeks before the storm & it really looked great... Now for the dilemma... after 30 years employed in the marine industry repowering boats from 35 70 70 foot employing cranes I know the sail boat could have been safely removed without damaging my boat had some form of care like chafe gear or the sailboat was removed by booming up while cabling down to take the weight and slide the sailboat back without lifting with excessive height. my paint was damaged because the flair of my hull decreased the clearance between boats if the sailboat was lifted more than one inch off its keel. the sailboats weight leaned on the next boat over, the Marina feels they are not responsible blaming the crane & the crane people said because the marina crew spotted & instructed the crane operator it was on the marina, I have never after 30 years in the boat biz had any legal issues that couldn't be negotiated between the party's until now. until this point I really enjoyed this marina for it is pretty much a friendly laid back place & atmosphere. so does anyone have any opinions or subjection's without involving lawyers?,
 
Craig
Have you involved your insurance company?
 
What is the $ extent of your damage?

Ted
 
Craig Schreck said:
all cosmetic paint & filling gouges, low of 2k high of 4k plus rehauling fees.
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I know you didn't have insurance at the time, what is your insurance deductible now?

Curious what the marina's response is to you filing a claim against their insurance. That shouldn't require a lawyer. If they had offered some compensation, would you have used their facilities for the repairs?

If they have a storage contract for boats being hauled and stored, does it have any wording about liability insurance requirements on your part?

Ted
 
My deductible will be 1k & no the marina has no insurance requirement yet, I don't know what their Marina owners legal liability deductible is but they use the same carrier as I do for my business . I was waning to settle this issue by a deduction in yard fees & split the repair.. to repair will be in mid summer due to storms back up in painters, the yard has been evasive & negative to date. I thought this offer was more than fair. I would rather do this than drive up costs involving outside party's.
 
Assuming there is one,check the whole written agreement with the Marina. Not just the insurance aspect but provisions regarding damage liability.If there are exclusion clauses in favour of the Marina, how are they applied in USA?
I don`t see how you get access to the Marina`s insurance,barring some applicable law it`s their insurance not yours, theirs to rely on if they chose to.
Marina may be liable for it`s subcontractors, maybe not. In cases like this you end up claiming against everyone,a the "scattergun" approach,and hope the one who loses pays everyone`s costs for not owning up earlier.
At your loss quantum, 2-4K, I doubt it`s worth using lawyers. Some kind of Small Claims Tribunal may work. Note I`m not in USA and know sfa about US law.
 
I'm assuming their MOL deductible is more than the claim at this point & who wants to blow the time in small claims court.
 
Craig Schreck said:
... who wants to blow the time in small claims court.
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Someone who has a small claim to pursue. Isn`t that you?
Parties don`t have to negotiate. If the Marina won`t,and you`re uninsured, what`s your recourse? Other than anger. Good luck with it.
 
You may have to check with an attorney, but a believe you can file a claim with the insurance company without the yards permission. I've done that with an auto accident where I filed with the other driver's insurance company. Among other things, this eliminated my deductible. It's certainly worth pursuing that option. The worst that can happen is that the insurance company may tell you to take them to court. Then again, they may be willing to settle to make it go away.

The final part of the equation is whether you're prepared to find another marina to keep your boat at.

Ted
 
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I'm not an angry kind of guy & this is a small local mom & pop type place not big on contracts, its part of its old school charm. I'm trying to not burn any bridges if it can be avoided, the costs of repair & storage can increase sharply if I move the boat to a yachter yard putting it into claim territory on their dime. I just rather not do it that way.
 
You are trying not to burn bridges. However the other party based on your statements seems like they are willing to burn this bridge.

You have a contract with them to store your boat. That agreement is enforceable from your point in the expectation of no damage to your boat. The contracted with the crane operator. They stored the vessels. They have the liability. And they are the professionals in the relationship. They bear the burden.

You can talk to them, write them email them and text them. In the end if they do not take action, you are the one left to take action. Question becomes are you willing to do that?

Recommendation - document everything. Who you talk to, when and for how long and what was stated. You may not need to use it. However if you do need it you have it.
 
Your claim is against the person operating the crane. Doesn’t matter who spotted. The crane operator is like the captain of a ship claiming it’s not his fault that his crew screwed up. The crane operator chose to proceed on the opinion of the marina personnel but ultimately it was his decision to proceed.
 
You're in a bit of a pickle there, Craig. I have worked with this yard and am familiar with what happened during the storm. I would suspect that there is some expectation of boats carrying insurance, and/or holding the yard harmless, for damage to boats during storms. If the yard and their insurance company were liable for all the damage they sustained (and caused) during Florence, they would never be able to stay in business. When the water receded, their boats had peppered downtown and the low grasslands around New Bern with boats. There is no way M and G could afford to cover that.

But let's be honest here... You have only two choices. Let it go and cover it yourself, or go after them legally. Action is right, while you may not want to burn bridges, M is ready to lose a customer over it. It sounds like he rejected your offer to go Dutch on it, so you have to decide if you want to continue with a relationship with them. I'm sure they have a lot of people coming after them for damages. They had a LOT of boats float away. If it were me and MY yacht ended up leaned against a motel after I paid someone to care for it during a storm, yea... I would certainly be talking to a lawyer. That said, you MAY have a case if they didn't provide you an agreement of what the liability of both parties is, however, is it worth $2k to go after it? IMHO, probably not. I would also venture a guess that, if there isn't a written agreement now, there will be one in the future. When we were up, I never saw or signed anything formal.

Good luck... And BTW, we are ready for a tank cleaning whenever you are. The fiberglass work is done and we have a second way to access our tanks thru the fuel level sensor hole :) The ONLY problem is we are FULL of fuel. 400g (200g each). We may have to wait until we burn thru some of that unless your truck can hold that much. I don't remember its capacity.
 
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I agree the yard seems uninterested in dealing with this issue. they claim it was a "salvage operation", possibly signed a liability waver for the crane & billed each boat owner effected for their share of crane time. I was not charged for crane time or contacted before or after the damage.
 
Hey Tom thanks for the insight, I signed no contract that I know of to date and cant recall anything implied, I purchased the boat there with assistance from C in the office. she went out of her way to help. My thoughts are that from the storm they may not be able to afford all the damage repairs , management simply refuses to return my calls. I know I can just contact my lawyer & start a claim but that's my last resort. I enjoy my trade and its the interaction with all the people involved that makes it fun. I thought my offer was fair, was surprised when it was rejected. either way I will call you soon & set up the tank work. we can store 750 gallons in the small pump truck so all is good.
 
If you really want to move the needle, ask them for a copy the written agreement that relieves them of liability and where you agreed to it.
 
Craig Schreck said:
I'm not an angry kind of guy & this is a small local mom & pop type place not big on contracts, its part of its old school charm. I'm trying to not burn any bridges if it can be avoided, the costs of repair & storage can increase sharply if I move the boat to a yachter yard putting it into claim territory on their dime. I just rather not do it that way.
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Based on everything you have written, I probably swallow it and put it behind you. Maybe if you're going to have the yard do the repairs, see if after the work is finished, a goodwill gesture could be knocked off the bill.

While I've not been in the same situation as you, the yard I've done business with for 25+ years is a great family business. Faced with a similar situation, screwing up the our relationship over 2K to 4K would be incredibly shortsighted on my part.

Ted
 
Is this a situation where you could negotiate with the yard on the repairs? If they are able to do the work perhaps a 50% discount to you? Or 50/50 on a contractor? This would most likely be the cheapest and friendliest way to get your boat repaired.
 
This yard does not do repair work of this type, it's more of a do it yourself place. at this point I can store 1hr closer to home for the same cost, but its hard to work on my boats locally, seems that once everyone knows where I am I can't get stuff done although its great for business.
 
Is this a situation where you could negotiate with the yard on the repairs? If they are able to do the work perhaps a 50% discount to you? Or 50/50 on a contractor? This would most likely be the cheapest and friendliest way to get your boat repaired.




The problem is no negation , I asked to split the bill & a break on storage billing. no reply from management until the Lady in the office contacted me last Thursday saying the owners said no.
 
Craig
I'd guess the yard is angry with themselves for not insisting that stored boats have proof of adequate insurance. Which begs the question, do other vessels banged up in this encounter have a potential claim against you.


If it were me I'd quietly tip toe away, get the right marine insurance and likewise protect your non marine assets with an umbrella policy.
 
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good advice. my boat never moved in the storm. never though about being liable for the boat just being there, I'll have to check that one out . I store with the garboard plug open & move low laying bilge things like battery's & inverters up on the salon floor. My bilge flooded with no water damage except a macerator pump that I didn't want to fool with unless I had to.
 
What a mess we do create when we have no written agreements. Here's how I see it.

1. You purchased a boat but failed to insure it. You're lucky to have anything left, much less to only have a couple of thousand in damage.

2. Marina has no contracts, you had none, nothing clear at all about liability and obligation so defaults to laws and standards and only way to sort it out would be a lot of legal wrangling.

3. If you can hold anyone liable, it's the marina as they're the ones who contracted with the crane and they could then make a claim against the crane operator.

Sloppy way for all to do business. If Marina had to pay everything they potentially could be held responsible for or all the potential court cases then likely wouldn't survive. They have to say "no" to everyone including you. One more case of lousy land storage being no better, and often worse, in hurricanes than water storage.

You can't have it both ways now. Either you want to maintain relationship with the marina and are willing to just accept your loss or you want to fight it and move to another marina. But while you're placing blame and debating whether to place it with marina or crane operator, you really should be putting the majority on yourself. You had no insurance. You had no written agreement specifying yours or their responsibility. Now, you have a minor loss and they have major losses and you're surprised they're not willing to help with yours.

You also say you weren't contacted but did you contact them, did you go to the location, did you monitor what took place? Something tells me you were paying very little for land storage there but now you want to hold them to a very high standard. Can't work like that.

Accept your loss and move forward and don't repeat your mistakes.
 
Craig Schreck said:
This yard does not do repair work of this type, it's more of a do it yourself place. at this point I can store 1hr closer to home for the same cost, but its hard to work on my boats locally, seems that once everyone knows where I am I can't get stuff done although its great for business.
Click to expand...

Craig Schreck said:
Is this a situation where you could negotiate with the yard on the repairs? If they are able to do the work perhaps a 50% discount to you? Or 50/50 on a contractor? This would most likely be the cheapest and friendliest way to get your boat repaired.




The problem is no negation , I asked to split the bill & a break on storage billing. no reply from management until the Lady in the office contacted me last Thursday saying the owners said no.
Click to expand...

If the yard doesn't do the work, then you need to negotiate on services. Having been in retail store front business for myself, nobody likes to give away inventory which is perceived as an out or pocket expense that has to be replaced. Storage and haulout have little perception of cost (there is cost, but it's not immediate like taking inventory off the shelf).

The second part is that you need to negotiate with the owner. Imo, you can't be compelling through a person who obviously isn't on your side.

As land storage has the lowest percieved cost, I'd aim for half of your repair costs spread over 2 winters.

Ted
 
BandB said:
What a mess we do create when we have no written agreements. Here's how I see it.

1. You purchased a boat but failed to insure it. You're lucky to have anything left, much less to only have a couple of thousand in damage.

2. Marina has no contracts, you had none, nothing clear at all about liability and obligation so defaults to laws and standards and only way to sort it out would be a lot of legal wrangling.

3. If you can hold anyone liable, it's the marina as they're the ones who contracted with the crane and they could then make a claim against the crane operator.

Sloppy way for all to do business. If Marina had to pay everything they potentially could be held responsible for or all the potential court cases then likely wouldn't survive. They have to say "no" to everyone including you. One more case of lousy land storage being no better, and often worse, in hurricanes than water storage.

You can't have it both ways now. Either you want to maintain relationship with the marina and are willing to just accept your loss or you want to fight it and move to another marina. But while you're placing blame and debating whether to place it with marina or crane operator, you really should be putting the majority on yourself. You had no insurance. You had no written agreement specifying yours or their responsibility. Now, you have a minor loss and they have major losses and you're surprised they're not willing to help with yours.

You also say you weren't contacted but did you contact them, did you go to the location, did you monitor what took place? Something tells me you were paying very little for land storage there but now you want to hold them to a very high standard. Can't work like that.

Accept your loss and move forward and don't repeat your mistakes.
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Excellent reply, the marina storage is in inline in pricing in this area & yes I was slack on buying insurance, if there wasn't the storm all I had to do was paint the bottom & launch planned for in October including insurance overboard, got caught short no doubt about it. I was there the day the roads opened, called every day and left several messages over time. didn't want to be a total pest. went back to the boat shortly after the first visit to find the damages from the clean up operation. My job requires a lot of my time so I feel I did my part the best I could. We offer emergency storm services for generators, a lot of them owned by utility company's. the storm backed us up 45 days.
 
O C Diver said:
If the yard doesn't do the work, then you need to negotiate on services. Having been in retail store front business for myself, nobody likes to give away inventory which is perceived as an out or pocket expense that has to be replaced. Storage and haulout have little perception of cost (there is cost, but it's not immediate like taking inventory off the shelf).

The second part is that you need to negotiate with the owner. Imo, you can't be compelling through a person who obviously isn't on your side.

As land storage has the lowest percieved cost, I'd aim for half of your repair costs spread over 2 winters.

Ted[/QUOTE


I was wanting to trade yard fees for outside repair costs so there was no cash exchange out of pocket on their part. we never really negotiated anything the yard manager won't return my calls. the boat was on their yard when I bought it after several years of non payment from the previous owner. I agree the owners should be involved I'm getting second hand info from office staff .
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