H46 Our Next Journey

As we look forward to our next journey we do so with confidence in the builder, high expectations in the boat and renewed level of commitment to take on the challenges of long passages offshore.

While this is a 180 degree turn from our previous plans of just four years ago when I planned to retire early and spend a couple of years cruising the ICW it does give us a second chance to accomplish a dream.

A little history on us includes looking back 15 years when we discovered trawlers and offshore passages my dream (Mary put up with me) was to cruise from San Diego up to Alaska then south to Cabo. Unfortunately life got in the way and things didn't work out despite owning the boats designed to accomplish this journey in comfort. Fast forward to the present and call it fate or good fortune but some how we got a second chance. All we need now is the right boat to safely carry us thousands of miles in open ocean with few stops between horizons.

This brings us to the new H46 and our start of another journey to explore this new boat design and outfitting it to meet our needs. Next week I will meet with Scott and representatives from the yard to start discussions and planning.

As with our incredible H38E and our posts on TF that included over 100k views we hope those who follow us enjoy this new thread.


John

What is an H46? God I hate abbreviations.

Gordon

Maybe a Helmsman 46? I am just guessing. I agree that people should use the proper name at least the first time they refer to the boat, if just as a courtesy to others.

John, I always liked the looks of ther helmsman boats.

I’ve watched you build and then sell I’m thinking two Nordhavn’s and now a Helmsman. Reading about your boat building adventures makes for fantastic entertainment on my part, and I suspect that it somehow fulfills your boating need, so it is very good!

Myself, I joined TF back in 2011 looking for a Coastal Cruiser to retire on and cruise the West Coast Alaska to Mexico. I settled on a Bayliner 4788 that fall and have spent the time since then fitting it out, paying for it, and skill building to make my journey.

Now I’m in the home stretch with retirement less than two years away. I’m even starting spanish lessons and studying routes, anchorages and weather patterns along the Baja Coast and the sea of Cortez in preparation.

All I can do is wish you the best of experiences, and I will continue to read your boat building threads with interest. When you get the boat you choose to go cruising built and fitted out, perhaps we can share an anchorage and a beer down south.

H46

Gordon J said:

What is an H46? God I hate abbreviations.

Gordon

Click to expand...

Sorry about that, H46 stands for the new Helmsman 46' trawler which is based on the proven Helmsman 38 and 43 trawlers.

Morning John, I am looking forward to following your journey.

H46

Fletcher500 said:

Morning John, I am looking forward to following your journey.

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Thanks Bill, I'm sure I will be bouncing ideas off you and leveraging your experiences with your new boat to help us dial in the design and features. Weather forecast looks promising tomorrow and we thinking about a short run up to Mission Bay for the day, any chance you will be out cruising around?

John

Welcome back with the new boat. Take and post pics of your trip and the boat in and around Mission Bay. I could use some inspiration to get me through this winter.

Beer Down South

ksanders said:

John, I always liked the looks of ther helmsman boats.

I’ve watched you build and then sell I’m thinking two Nordhavn’s and now a Helmsman. Reading about your boat building adventures makes for fantastic entertainment on my part, and I suspect that it somehow fulfills your boating need, so it is very good!

Myself, I joined TF back in 2011 looking for a Coastal Cruiser to retire on and cruise the West Coast Alaska to Mexico. I settled on a Bayliner 4788 that fall and have spent the time since then fitting it out, paying for it, and skill building to make my journey.

Now I’m in the home stretch with retirement less than two years away. I’m even starting spanish lessons and studying routes, anchorages and weather patterns along the Baja Coast and the sea of Cortez in preparation.

All I can do is wish you the best of experiences, and I will continue to read your boat building threads with interest. When you get the boat you choose to go cruising built and fitted out, perhaps we can share an anchorage and a beer down south.

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Kevin, the first one (will have to be a margarita since we don't drink beer) is on me. Looking forward to seeing everything work out this time for us and enjoying that cold one.

John

Looking at the specs

One of the great things about planning for and building a new boat is reviewing and understanding the design specifications and how they support the intended use of the boat. I'm no expert and would never claim to be but I do enjoy this part of the process and learn a little more on every boat. This is also where you have to trust the builder and rely on him / her for their professional opinion and expertise. Needless to say this is why we are exploring the H46, we trust Scott and the yard. I cannot say enough about the quality of our H38 and to be honest if we could afford to keep her and build the H46 for Mexico we would.

An update on our plans for the new boat includes Mary and I taking her to Cabo by ourselves and leaving the boat there for a year or two while we fly back and forth and explore the Sea of Cortez. Then possibly take her south to the west coast ports of Mexico before taking her back to Cabo and hiring a captain to bring her home to San Diego.

While this itinerary has been accomplished by many sail boaters and FD hull trawlers with the range as well as some larger power boaters we will be pushing ourselves especially on open ocean multiple overnight passages. For the most part I have to plan all trips as though I'm single handling so not to place to much responsibility on Mary. She is fine performing watches but if things go wrong I'm on my own. Insuring we have the right boat, probably equipped with back up systems is critical and a 180 from our current boat.

With this baseline in mind I had the pleasure to meet with Scott and Wilson from the Helmsman yard to discuss our plans and how we could spec out the boat to meet the mission. This was the first time I meet Wilson and I was very impressed with knowledge of every aspect on all Helmsman boats. We discussed a few items on our current boat and enhancements he has been incorporating the past couple of years to insure he delivers the best boat possible. Any builder who continues to refine and enhance their product is in my opinion a builder who will be around for a long time.

Next post will focus on specific items discussed in our boat.

N4061 said:

One of the great things about planning for and building a new boat is reviewing and understanding the design specifications and how they support the intended use of the boat. I'm no expert and would never claim to be but I do enjoy this part of the process and learn a little more on every boat. This is also where you have to trust the builder and rely on him / her for their professional opinion and expertise. Needless to say this is why we are exploring the H46, we trust Scott and the yard. I cannot say enough about the quality of our H38 and to be honest if we could afford to keep her and build the H46 for Mexico we would.

An update on our plans for the new boat includes Mary and I taking her to Cabo by ourselves and leaving the boat there for a year or two while we fly back and forth and explore the Sea of Cortez. Then possibly take her south to the west coast ports of Mexico before taking her back to Cabo and hiring a captain to bring her home to San Diego.

While this itinerary has been accomplished by many sail boaters and FD hull trawlers with the range as well as some larger power boaters we will be pushing ourselves especially on open ocean multiple overnight passages. For the most part I have to plan all trips as though I'm single handling so not to place to much responsibility on Mary. She is fine performing watches but if things go wrong I'm on my own. Insuring we have the right boat, probably equipped with back up systems is critical and a 180 from our current boat.

With this baseline in mind I had the pleasure to meet with Scott and Wilson from the Helmsman yard to discuss our plans and how we could spec out the boat to meet the mission. This was the first time I meet Wilson and I was very impressed with knowledge of every aspect on all Helmsman boats. We discussed a few items on our current boat and enhancements he has been incorporating the past couple of years to insure he delivers the best boat possible. Any builder who continues to refine and enhance their product is in my opinion a builder who will be around for a long time.

Next post will focus on specific items discussed in our boat.

Click to expand...

Your plan for taking your boat to the southern end of the Baja Pensulia is as you know easily doable. The only issue you might face is insurance and risk related during the summer months.

My plan is to go south, and then come back up into America as summer progresses. I’ve never made the trip, but the best I can figure out is that you want to leave the Cabo area and head north in the early spring before the summer weather patterns set in and make for strong norhterlies (IE the Baja Bash). There are some very good articles about this on the net, and Sea magazine had a good article utlining how a powerboat can make the trip north avoiding all but one overnight run. My thought is that by the first of March I’ll be looking at going north. That puts me in the right places for summer cruising up north.

Looking forward to seeing your boat as it comes together!

Having followed you for many years across the Nordhavn sites and this one. I need to ask you.

Can you let us know if you have ANY affiliation with a manufacturer or brokerage or boat marketing business?

Or are you totally an individual, totally separated from any financial ties to the boating industry?

menzies said:

Having followed you for many years across the Nordhavn sites and this one. I need to ask you.

Can you let us know if you have ANY affiliation with a manufacturer or brokerage or boat marketing business?

Or are you totally an individual, totally separated from any financial ties to the boating industry?

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Are you asking John?

For that trip, I would be looking hard at fuel capacity and range. We joined the Cubar 2017 trip, and a number of boats needed to fuel once or twice along the way. But the stops are pretty desolate, with pretty much nothing from Ensenada to Cabo. Fueling is via a couple of guys, one or two barrels, and a hand pump, all from a panga. For the Cubar run this was all arranged ahead of time, but there were still discrepancies around how much fuel people actually got. I would not want to do it on my own, and was thankful to not need fuel to make it all the way down. So my only suggestion would be to go slow and carry enough fuel, or go with the Cubar so fuel is arranged in advance.

BandB said:

Are you asking John?

Click to expand...

Yep.

twistedtree said:

For that trip, I would be looking hard at fuel capacity and range. We joined the Cubar 2017 trip, and a number of boats needed to fuel once or twice along the way. But the stops are pretty desolate, with pretty much nothing from Ensenada to Cabo. Fueling is via a couple of guys, one or two barrels, and a hand pump, all from a panga. For the Cubar run this was all arranged ahead of time, but there were still discrepancies around how much fuel people actually got. I would not want to do it on my own, and was thankful to not need fuel to make it all the way down. So my only suggestion would be to go slow and carry enough fuel, or go with the Cubar so fuel is arranged in advance.

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It sounds like you have seen folks take on fuel in Turtle Bay, something I have not seen myself. For my boat I will need fuel there. It may not be plesant but it’s doable i have again read but not seen. I also belive that you can pull up to the warf and they will drop a hose to you. That might seem like a challenge but we do that in Alaska in several of the smaller villages i’ve been too.

H46

menzies said:

Having followed you for many years across the Nordhavn sites and this one. I need to ask you.

Can you let us know if you have ANY affiliation with a manufacturer or brokerage or boat marketing business?

Or are you totally an individual, totally separated from any financial ties to the boating industry?

Click to expand...

Fair question and not the first time I have been asked. If you consider compensation I have received for writing articles published in boating magazines, the sale of my book (no longer available) or assisting a builder with showing my boat in a show when no other models are available then yes. As you already mentioned i have been boating a long time (my entire life) and enjoy writing about our different boats starting many years ago with our 22' Mako in a free publication. That lead to our three Nordhavns and a few articles in different magazines. Then I wrote and self published a small book focused living aboard which was actually therapy for me while dealing with Mary's health issues that keep us sideline for a few years. Soon after I discovered TF which has been great fun. Bottom line is that I enjoy recreational boating and sharing our adventures with others. I'm surprised with the 100,000 plus views on our last thread and look forward to the same dialogs and help on this one. If someone can benefit from what we write about or learn from our mistakes then great. It's also no secret that if I have something factual and not flattering about one of my boats I talk about openly despite what the builder may think. Hope this answers your question.

N4061 said:

Fair question and not the first time I have been asked. If you consider compensation I have received for writing articles published in boating magazines, the sale of my book (no longer available) or assisting a builder with showing my boat in a show when no other models are available then yes. As you already mentioned i have been boating a long time (my entire life) and enjoy writing about our different boats starting many years ago with our 22' Mako in a free publication. That lead to our three Nordhavns and a few articles in different magazines. Then I wrote and self published a small book focused living aboard which was actually therapy for me while dealing with Mary's health issues that keep us sideline for a few years. Soon after I discovered TF which has been great fun. Bottom line is that I enjoy recreational boating and sharing our adventures with others. I'm surprised with the 100,000 plus views on our last thread and look forward to the same dialogs and help on this one. If someone can benefit from what we write about or learn from our mistakes then great. It's also no secret that if I have something factual and not flattering about one of my boats I talk about openly despite what the builder may think. Hope this answers your question.

Click to expand...

OK, so not employed by a manufacturer or broker?

The reason I ask is that you had three Nordhavns built with only a year or so between them before ordering, now two Helmsmen the same. The depreciation on a boat for the first one or two years is pretty big. In fact, on the Nordhavns would run into seven figures across the boats.

menzies said:

OK, so not employed by a manufacturer or broker?

The reason I ask is that you had three Nordhavns built with only a year or so between them before ordering, now two Helmsmen the same. The depreciation on a boat for the first one or two years is pretty big. In fact, on the Nordhavns would run into seven figures across the boats.

Click to expand...

He's also a smart and savvy buyer and seller and rest assure suffered smaller losses than you might think. It can be done. We were offered more for boats we had built than we'd paid. I know a new model of a major builder that the first boat sold was put immediately on the used market at more than he paid. When times were booming Trinity buyers did that but then in Grand Ambition you can read what happened when the market turned.

Often times with builders lead times, there are buyers who will pay nearly a new price for a barely used.

We used our Sunseeker for two years and over 10,000 nm in doing the loop and some other travel and because of some very good timing on the UK/US exchange rate, sold it for within 10% of what we paid for it.

Range

In response to the topic of range and our planned 1,000 mile trip south to Cabo without worrying about refueling in Turtle Bay we need at least 1,200 mile range to include a 20% safety factor before factoring in use of the generator. We are still working with Scott to understand the boats performance (GPH, NMPG, Speed) based upon our final engine selection and other options but with 800 gallons we should be fine.

N4061 said:

In response to the topic of range and our planned 1,000 mile trip south to Cabo without worrying about refueling in Turtle Bay we need at least 1,200 mile range to include a 20% safety factor before factoring in use of the generator. We are still working with Scott to understand the boats performance (GPH, NMPG, Speed) based upon our final engine selection and other options but with 800 gallons we should be fine.

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Perfect!

My wife and I have made the trip from San Diego, Calif. to Cabo, La Paz and Puerto Vallarta 7 times since 2004. We have a 58 ft. Westbay Sonship and do the trip both down and return by ourselves. We only carry 1000 gal. of fuel and always stop in Turtle Bay for topping up fuel. We travel at 9 kts. The fuel in delivered in a panga with 1000 liters in a polyethelene tank. It is not hand pumped. They run a small generator and pump the fuel and a reasonable speed. We are presently in San Jose del Cabo and fueled on the way down at TB. You can also get fuel in Magdalena Bay back in the Man O War anchorage from a panga. We break the trip into 3 legs. SD-TB about 330 NM. TB-Bahia Santa Maria 240 NM. Then 190 NM down to San Jose. We use weather routing out of New York. We have very low constraints and have no deadlines. So we wait in these stops for really good weather to move. We have waited in TB for 5 or 6 days on some trips. The fuel is outrageously expensive in TB because Enrique now has no competition so be prepared to pay way more than you will in actual ports farther south. Obviously we do not have a displacement hulled trawler and our slow speed is not as economical as a displacement hull. We have done the same routine coming back north preferring to wait until the middle of June to head North. Again, never have deadlines. Everybody we talk to in various stops that got their butts kicked had to be somewhere by a certain date. Weather prediction is light years better than it used to be but there are always exceptions but our routing service has been about 95% spot on over all of these trips. We are headed from San Jose to La Paz in another couple of weeks weather permitting (of course). Hope this current info. helps....

Ross, thank you for your great and informative post. I cannot agree more on the advantages of "no time constraints" which is another aspect of boating we don't have. This being said Im the last person to push a weather forecast and risk getting caught in a mess so we know doing this trip while still working has its risks of working out. Add in the relatively small boat size and things can stack up against us quickly. Even when we had our small Nordhavn's which were Category A certified we found no enjoyment heading into short period six foot seas for 12 hours. Just not worth it. Knowing the boat was designed and proven to handle these relatively messy seas provided us mental comfort we were fine helped but again just not worth getting caught in that stuff.

Regarding fuel stops, we definitely do not want to have to worry about them (I have enough to worry about) and know we will be OK with this boat. We are still working on the engine selection (likely a Cummins) then we can dial in the estimated range. All fun stuff and part of the journey. If you are in SD let me know and possibly we can get together over a margarita and discuss your trips. Thanks

Salon Design

Yesterday I met Mary and Sailor Blue after work at the boat for the afternoon and dinner. While we were relaxing in the salon we started to talk about and compare our 38E to the H46 drawings.

A few take aways included:
1. With the H38E already offering one of the largest beam to length ratio salon available the H46 will be large.
2. We are on the fence with the U shape H46 galley based on how much we appreciate the openness of our H38E design.
3. We will likely have an up / down television to help protect it when cruising in rough conditions. We keep the drop down TV on the H38 always stowed away while underway and its worked out fine.
4. Stove will be gas so propane capacity will be something to figure out.
5. A large size refrigerator / freezer is a must have but one that is very efficient.
6. As with the H38 window size and type is something we will discuss with Scott. Possibly storm covers or at least provisioning for them is on the list.
7. Location of AC and heater units as well as their vents while normally predetermined by the factory is something I want to have input on. Especially if we start tweaking the interior.

While there are many other things to consider, these are the few we discussed so far. As we left for the evening Mary turned and looked back at the boat and said "you have this boat just as you wanted and its perfect for us, do you really want to start all over?". Ouch��

John, can you summarize what has changed in your cruising/use plans, and what you now find to be deficient in the 38 WRT those plans? It would be helpful to understand the problem you are trying to solve with the new build, and why that isn't solved in the 38.


Thanks

N4061 said:

While there are many other things to consider, these are the few we discussed so far. As we left for the evening Mary turned and looked back at the boat and said "you have this boat just as you wanted and its perfect for us, do you really want to start all over?". Ouch��

Click to expand...

Answer: Duh. You know me. Always. And guess what, after it.......

Change in Plans

twistedtree said:

John, can you summarize what has changed in your cruising/use plans, and what you now find to be deficient in the 38 WRT those plans? It would be helpful to understand the problem you are trying to solve with the new build, and why that isn't solved in the 38.

In summary we selected the H38E for it hull form (best dang hull in the world offering the soft comfort of an FD with just a little more speed - my opinion), quality and best value of any boat I could find. Our plans were to cruise southern California then ship the boat to Florida, retire and do the ICW the Bahamas.

Since I'm now not retiring for another 4-5 years and cruising is limited in southern California we thought its time to head south. Can the H38 handle this and does it have the range, sure but for this trip (as you know) you want the biggest, heaviest boat you can afford and can handle long passages in open ocean. Also need stabilizers and back up systems since we be alone must of the time. If things work out this will be a 2-3 year journey south then maybe build another 38E for retirement and east coast (love this boat).

John

Click to expand...

Hello John,


Congratulations on selecting your 2nd Helmsman, I'm sure she will be a stunning and top performing vessel.


I'm curious as to what systems you are considering for back-up systems?

N4061 said:

In response to the topic of range and our planned 1,000 mile trip south to Cabo without worrying about refueling in Turtle Bay we need at least 1,200 mile range to include a 20% safety factor before factoring in use of the generator. We are still working with Scott to understand the boats performance (GPH, NMPG, Speed) based upon our final engine selection and other options but with 800 gallons we should be fine.

Click to expand...

You do know SD to Cabo is under 800 miles? Less from Ensenada..

(695) which is where I top off on fuel typically before heading South.


HOLLYWOOD

Back up

Jim Cooper said:

Hello John,


Congratulations on selecting your 2nd Helmsman, I'm sure she will be a stunning and top performing vessel.


I'm curious as to what systems you are considering for back-up systems?

Click to expand...

Heat question and likely the most painstaking one I'm dealing with. As everyone knows I prefer simplicity when it come to boats and our H38E is as close as we could get while meeting our demands on a boat. Since our new plan includes cruising Mexico for a couple of years we will need backup power. We are trying to decide on twins (ouch) or a wing engine. Pros and cons with both. More to follow....