Adventure - NYC to RI

Not sure if this will be an adventure, or a piece of cake... working on purchase of a project boat. It needs a LOT of work cosmetically, some mechanically. Single engine, diesel, fiberglass hull, early 80's. I'm up for the work, because I like adventure. I do a lot of my own work for the challenge and savings, but always willing to pay for time and expertise I don't have.

The challenge: Move it from NYC area to RI area (approx 150 nm).

Positive Factors:

• It sea trials every year, last one in spring of 2018
• The engine was taken care of by appearances, starts and runs.
• A mechanic took "care" of the boat for the owner.
• All seacocks look original, beefy, no obvious issues.
• Bilge appears normal, not a constant pumper.
• Seller appears easygoing on timing, which could allow for choice of weather window (though that window is likely days/few weeks, not months).
• It's entirely possible that I'm overthinking/concerned about condition, I've seen some very rough boats that are pushed hard. Not wise, but one trip done carefully NOT pushing hard may not be such an issue.

Negatives/Concerns:

• The batteries are too low in the bilge (IMO) but do appear to be in uncovered boxes.
• The wiring in the boat is not safe (IMO) (battery connections lying on side of bilge, not secured.) This is correctable in a short time IMO.
• There are some fittings that are home depot plastic in the sea water system (look to be for AC), engine ones appear to be original and in acceptable condition.
• No survey, this is as is, boat has been not been hauled in at least 5 years. I'm good with no survey prior to sale, I have my reasons, not changing them.
• By appearance (as a mechanically minded person, trained as an engineer) the boat was not well maintained outside of the engine. I might be pickier than most... maybe.
• Contamination in fuel could be found if a longer trip is taken.
• I could go on, but I'm looking at things relative to this one mission. Once it gets to RI it's on land for restoration.

Thoughts/Questions? This is an acceptable risk vs timing situation. How can I mitigate the risks?

My ideas

• Hire a mechanic/captain to move the boat (my first choice)
• Move the boat to a very close by yard, and have it "safety" inspected and repaired (problem is, I'm far away from it, this makes it difficult to supervise/ensure quality).
• RE: Fuel, mobile polishing service?
• I do not believe it is reasonable/possible to move by land, this is too large 20ft tall even with mast removed.

Given all this, my instinct is to ask for a recommendation for a mechanic/captain in the NYC/RI area with a sense of adventure to help. Book a time window, pay for expenses/repairs/time, do some checks/fixes/repairs/planning and move if safe to do so.

Will consider any and all thoughts, and then prepared to do the "most right" thing in the spectrum of things to do.

Edit: If someone knows the perfect person for this mission, recommendations appreciated as well. Someone who'd show up with their own bilge pump...

That is not a tough trip in good weather. Do a sea trial to be sure engine runs properly before you go and test ground tackle and bilge pumps.

Temp fixes for anything you think dangerous. Have duct tape, lube oil, and tools. Plenty of fuel filters and know how to change them. Plan for emergency anchorages, pick good weather then go.

A helper to steer while you inspect ER frequently.

Wouldn’t you want a survey at least to ensure you shouldn’t walk away or to tell you how “eyes wide open” you should be? I get that the seller is saying”as is” and wants to bypass it- but unless you have your own experience level, I’d like a second pro opinion

I'd get a survey. If the survey passes, address what gets flagged in the survey. (There is always a list) Then I would be replacing all intake hoses and making sure all the seacocks function properly. Polish Fuel. Oil change, transmission fluid/oil, impeller, fuel filters.

Doesn't look all that challenging to me. While I would have surveyed and I would have it checked and worked on before the trip, your choice and you've chosen not to. I say that as you've made the excuse against getting it checked by a yard that "you're far away." You really consider the distance from Plymouth to NY to be far? You could hire a captain to supervise for you.

So, most of the trip is in sounds and the weather fairly well forecast with just a short distance of open travel. Purchase tow membership, then go. If it won't run initially, no risk as you won't move. If something happens along the way, get towed to nearest yard. Many reputable yards line your route.

I would hire a captain and mate (or you go as mate) to do the job. With a boat of unknown condition it's a two person task, especially since mechanical problems would be the most easily dealt with but things like taking on water or fire would require immediate action. Just be prepared that what you see as a two or three day trip could easily turn into a much longer trip.

As to fuel polishing I'd check the fuel first, see it's condition. If clearly an issue then get it polished.

If its mechanically sound as it appears by your description, just run the boat to RI. Have plenty of fuel filters onboard, wait for a good 3 day weather window and go.

Fix what you need to be comfortable with the boat's condition for the trip and go... With towing insurance.

Delivery captains are often very resourceful at solving problems before leaving as well as underway. Find one that is mechanically astute and ask his advice about the boat and proposed trip. That trip is a 2-3 day daylight move, but you have lots of bailout options. Make sure your towing insurance is up to date .

There are three fundamental issues with the move you are proposing:

1. Starting the engine
2. Keeping it running
3. Staying afloat

1. Replace the batteries, check out all wiring to the starter, and the wiring from the "ignition" switch to the starting solenoid. Make sure the engine cranks over quickly and starts within a few seconds of cranking.

2. Make sure that the engine alternator is charging the batteries, so it will start the second time. Then go through the whole fuel system, tighten connections, even put a clear hose in the fuel line and check for bubbles. Then if you have any concerns about junk in the fuel, then polish the fuel. Stock a half dozen fuel filters but even those can be overwhelmed by junk. Also stock a few gallons of lube oil.

3. Close off all unnecessary thru hulls. Make sure you have at least two working bilge pumps, preferably one of at least 2,000 gph. Check the wiring to the bilge pumps and if suspect run new wires. Make sure that the engine alternator can put out at least 20-30 amps so it can supply enough power to run the pumps for a few hours if necessary. Check the prop shat gland and steering gland for leaks.

Obviously the engine must run smooth with little vibration at the prop shaft, steering free from binding, etc. The electronics may be junk but a tablet with appropriate nav software and a way to charge it will suffice.

With the above done, I would be comfortable taking it on a 2-3 day trip. I would have a full set of tools on board to deal with the unexpected.

David

We did a similar trip last April on our boat. LI to Scituate 140 MI.


We inspected but did not sea trial her (nor have surveyed for similar reasons as you) 2 weeks prior to our trip. Boat in need of love but mechanically sound as far as we could tell (we have a good idea what to look for) and as far as we understood from seller (who to us was trustworthy). We looked for a good weather window and got a ride to the new London ferry then a cab ride to the boat. An hour after closing off we went.


We had to carry what we could think of that we might need for clothes, bedding, food, tools, spare fasteners and hose clamps, spare fuel filters (on board), spare belts (on board), spare bilge pump and hoses, spare wire, duct and electrical tape, spare oil and antifreeze, spare gps plus free navionics on our phones, etc. etc.


Fortunately the seller let us take from our first visit all manuals he had so we could get familiar with electronics, engine, thruster (we thought), generator, autopilot, head and other systems.


We lucked out on clear weather, and not too cold.


We made sure thru hulls we didn't need were closed and ones we did could be closed. Also bilge pump was working, oil clean and full in engine and transmission, coolant clean and full, and hydraulic steering working smoothly.


We should have paid better attention to how the thruster worked because we hit the piling in the first ten feet and were beached in the first 50 feet. Not the way to start our maiden voyage but we got out of the situation.

We weren't sure how accurate fuel gauges were nor how much fuel we were likely to use but we could not find an open fuel pump anywhere on our way. So that was a bit of a worry, until we saw how things were going.

We constantly checked the bilge and stuffing box along the way. Also kept a keen eye on temp and oil pressure. And we looked for any engine leaks.

We made sure we weren't too far from places to duck into if in trouble.

We made sure we had towing insurance. And at least liability insurance for any fuel spill.


When we got to our first port we found the engine wouldn't shut down so we shut the fuel off. Next day we bled it but still wouldn't start and daylight was wasting Finally figured out a fuel solenoid needed some cleaning and off we went.


We stayed on board and it was the coldest i think i have ever been in spite of plenty of clothes and bedding. It was only later that i realized the water temp was only 38 it made it one cold boat. We did not try any reverse heat system but with a working generator wish we at least had a space heater.


It was a logistical challenge but a great way to put our new to us old girl to a great shake down cruise. It had plenty of risk of course, but we did what we could to prepare for those risks.


I would do it all over again.

You guys are all great, lots of great information in here and the repetition of certain items/themes help, I'm going to create a list from the common items and anything that I think I can do easily.

I will add for some folks who asked, that I do have some experience/skills especially engine and diesel, I did inspect the boat thoroughly, and from some of your stories I think maybe I might fare better than I think. Still will hire a delivery captain. What's the best way to find one?

And yes, it's not a long trip, but with an unknown boat it is...

Get tow insurance.


I don't think anyone mentioned it, but make sure the VHF works well, and take a handheld as well.


A good set of tools.


Plot out bailout points in advance with phone numbers, locations, etc.


Considering the time of year, I'd take survival suits.


Most of the delivery captains I know would hear the story or check out the boat themselves, and probably walk away from the job. Nobody wants a likely breakdown.


It's a pretty easy three day trip assuming a slow boat. But keep in mind the short daylight time.

"Do a sea trial to be sure engine runs properly before you go and test ground tackle and bilge pumps."

A sea trial can be 10 hours running in sight of the boats marina.

Bad fuel will show in time , a badly maintained tank can not be cured with polishing , so carry many filters.Know how to bleed the system.

Good weather and a no stress passage , same RPM you drove by the marina would work.

Will be a bit brisk now in January , make sure the departure and arrival locations are ice free.

jleonard said:

If its mechanically sound as it appears by your description, just run the boat to RI. Have plenty of fuel filters onboard, wait for a good 3 day weather window and go.

Click to expand...

This /\ . And have an active SeaTow or BoatUS membership.

We took my father in laws new-to-him Hunter 29.5 from Huntington LI to Bristol, RI. We took 3 days to do it, including a day in Huntington making ready.
We had temp problems on the way - turned out to be a perished water pump impeller. Fortunately we had sail as a backup and alternated between motoring and sailing.

So my advice based on that and my other experience with engine cooling is, replace impellers as a matter of course before attempting a maiden voyage.

bridaus said:

Not sure if this will be an adventure, or a piece of cake... working on purchase of a project boat. It needs a LOT of work cosmetically, some mechanically. Single engine, diesel, fiberglass hull, early 80's. I'm up for the work, because I like adventure. I do a lot of my own work for the challenge and savings, but always willing to pay for time and expertise I don't have.

The challenge: Move it from NYC area to RI area (approx 150 nm).

Positive Factors:

• It sea trials every year, last one in spring of 2018
• The engine was taken care of by appearances, starts and runs.
• A mechanic took "care" of the boat for the owner.
• All seacocks look original, beefy, no obvious issues.
• Bilge appears normal, not a constant pumper.
• Seller appears easygoing on timing, which could allow for choice of weather window (though that window is likely days/few weeks, not months).
• It's entirely possible that I'm overthinking/concerned about condition, I've seen some very rough boats that are pushed hard. Not wise, but one trip done carefully NOT pushing hard may not be such an issue.

Negatives/Concerns:

• The batteries are too low in the bilge (IMO) but do appear to be in uncovered boxes.
• The wiring in the boat is not safe (IMO) (battery connections lying on side of bilge, not secured.) This is correctable in a short time IMO.
• There are some fittings that are home depot plastic in the sea water system (look to be for AC), engine ones appear to be original and in acceptable condition.
• No survey, this is as is, boat has been not been hauled in at least 5 years. I'm good with no survey prior to sale, I have my reasons, not changing them.
• By appearance (as a mechanically minded person, trained as an engineer) the boat was not well maintained outside of the engine. I might be pickier than most... maybe.
• Contamination in fuel could be found if a longer trip is taken.
• I could go on, but I'm looking at things relative to this one mission. Once it gets to RI it's on land for restoration.

Thoughts/Questions? This is an acceptable risk vs timing situation. How can I mitigate the risks?

My ideas

• Hire a mechanic/captain to move the boat (my first choice)
• Move the boat to a very close by yard, and have it "safety" inspected and repaired (problem is, I'm far away from it, this makes it difficult to supervise/ensure quality).
• RE: Fuel, mobile polishing service?
• I do not believe it is reasonable/possible to move by land, this is too large 20ft tall even with mast removed.

Given all this, my instinct is to ask for a recommendation for a mechanic/captain in the NYC/RI area with a sense of adventure to help. Book a time window, pay for expenses/repairs/time, do some checks/fixes/repairs/planning and move if safe to do so.

Will consider any and all thoughts, and then prepared to do the "most right" thing in the spectrum of things to do.

Edit: If someone knows the perfect person for this mission, recommendations appreciated as well. Someone who'd show up with their own bilge pump...

Click to expand...

Well first, when are you thinking of making this purchase/doing the trip? I would be concerned about doing it in colder weather. Some tow services are laid up for winter, CG might be on lighter staff due to shutdown, practically no recreational fishermen/boaters out there to assist, etc. I would only do the trip with a life raft, epirb, and exposure suits this time of year after confirming a tow service is operating and not iced in. If you hire a captain and put him in a possibly unsafe boat, you may become liable for what happens. You do not mention cruise speed, fuel capacity, burn, etc. I could do NYC to RI in my boat in one day, easy. Another option is to move the boat by land (you still haven't given us specifics on the boat, make/model/length/bridge clearance/etc). My boat is almost 30' tall, with mast down around 15', and a couple things can be done to bring the height down slightly more (i.e. removing windscreen). Perhaps there is an easy way to make some adjustments and have it moved via land.

Second, you are saying "appears" a lot. Have you looked at actual maintenance records? Have you physically checked the engine? What sort of project are you willing to take on? What are you capabilities? Is all necessary maintenance up-to-date so that the boat's mechanicals will not be damaged by using them? There are some items that must be tended to if a boat sat or you can cause damage. Personally, I'd do a TON of due diligence myself, and only once I was content, pay for surveyor and separate mechanic to comb over the boat. It seems you are asking a lot of questions and there is a lot you are unsure of. I question whether you are capable of handling a project boat...

Batteries low in bilge? So are mine. Wiring unsecured, not but you need to check condition of wiring, for damage, not that its just unsecured. What fittings are plastic?? Please elaborate. You are saying no survey but asking us to help you. Honestly does not seem like you have the expertise to make a good decision here and could benefit from a survey. You will need insurance before taking ownership. How do you plan to get insurance on a boat that is not surveyed, confirmed to be seaworthy, and mechanically sound????????????????????

If you do the trip, tons of spare parts, tools, and safety gear!!!

There is a lot to be said for quantifying someone's comfort zone. I have myself delivered my last three boats from very far away, Michigan to Ct and Montreal to Ct and there is a level of anxiety to be managed. There is a lot of good advice here. As stated, I would wait until the spring time for more traffic in the sound. The sound can get quite snotty at times. What is your cruising speed ? 8kts ? What is the engine ? Some are more reliable than others and much easier to work on in a pinch. Surveys are good, but only detect what they can see and hear AT THAT TIME. I have learned that the hard way. I would buy the boat and stay in NYC for a few days getting to know it, how necessary things work. Bilge pumps, alarms, change impellers, hydraulic steering, ground tackle, VHF (S),
Lets go for a ride !!!!

Ok, short but momentous update, and I'll probably start a new thread when I have time. Boat appears to be mine now... knock on wood.

42 Kadey Krogen. 120 HP Lehman. Neglected cosmetically, maintained to a basic standard in my book mechanically. I will be cleaning it out first, then spending time with it, then moving it. I'm closing to booking a delivery captain and mechanic to help move it.

Liability insurance was easy to get, hull insurance is proving to be very difficult.

All advice has been excellent, I think the only advice I may not want to follow (but I hear you) is the wait until Spring. It's 7-8 knots cruise, therefore 19 hours (if I recall), and the local captain is not fazed by it. I'm hoping to get a window where it is not snotty. What that definition is.... up for debate. If that is not possible, I'll consider myself forced to wait...

I'm a person who researches and prepares fastidiously, I have copied down every single suggestion in the thread and am reviewing the big logistical challenge. Exciting times ahead.

The when of the trip is probably late February, or early March. Working on that now. I have a lot of work ahead of me, y'all have given me some homework.

bridaus said:

Ok, short but momentous update, and I'll probably start a new thread when I have time. Boat appears to be mine now... knock on wood.

42 Kadey Krogen. 120 HP Lehman. Neglected cosmetically, maintained to a basic standard in my book mechanically. I will be cleaning it out first, then spending time with it, then moving it. I'm closing to booking a delivery captain and mechanic to help move it.

Liability insurance was easy to get, hull insurance is proving to be very difficult.

All advice has been excellent, I think the only advice I may not want to follow (but I hear you) is the wait until Spring. It's 7-8 knots cruise, therefore 19 hours (if I recall), and the local captain is not fazed by it. I'm hoping to get a window where it is not snotty. What that definition is.... up for debate. If that is not possible, I'll consider myself forced to wait...

I'm a person who researches and prepares fastidiously, I have copied down every single suggestion in the thread and am reviewing the big logistical challenge. Exciting times ahead.

Click to expand...

just know there there is icing in many parts along the sound right now. you may not be able to enter certain harbors if you needed to. also cg typically relies heavily on local towns marine units for emergency response and most towns are decommissioned or iced in. usually jan and feb are bad for transiting between NYC and RI. some times march is bad too, all depends on weather/temps.

I would make sure to look up sales/use tax info because if you plan to bring the boat to RI where there is none, it would suck to get hit with it in another state over winter.

mystery said:

just know there there is icing in many parts along the sound right now. you may not be able to enter certain harbors if you needed to.

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Yes, and it's not going to get better. This is a critical consideration.

[QUOTEAll advice has been excellent, I think the only advice I may not want to follow (but I hear you) is the wait until Spring. It's 7-8 knots cruise, therefore 19 hours (if I recall), and the local captain is not fazed by it.
][/QUOTE]

We went from way down inside Manhassett Bay to Mystic in about 13 hours in our Albin which is a 6.5-7 knot boat. It was 3rd week of May and we caught the outgoing current for much of the run. We ran right up the middle of the sound.

Congrats!! Nice boat, and do keep us posted.

Good for you and good plan! Weather window is probably your biggest challenge on logistics - sounds like winter is finally coming to southern new England and may be here for a while. There may be a slight window middle to end of next week, but the polar vortex gurus claim very soon after the cold winter shoe is really gonna drop.

A Krogen with a Lehman 120 ?
Awesome combination. I have twin FL120's and they run great. Fuel system is easy to bleed. Just as an FYI, we are in the water in Essex, Ct and the ice is beginning to form on the Ct river and flow south into the sound. If you need a hand during the journey let me know, I am very familiar with the harbors and the engines and a winter boat ride is awesome. We are live aboards and locked in by bubblers now.

I hope you have a captain with some experience on Krogens.
The first time I ever had a fuel issue was in that exact trip you propose.
Caused by seas rough enough to stir the sludge at the bottom of the tank.

I see, you don't want to wait until spring. Ok, but wait until you have light winds, less than 5 knots and almost flat seas, less than a foot.

If you got such conditions, don't stop until you must.

A boat in the condition you describe can make the trip, but the rougher the seas, the more likelihood you have of something not working, breaking, etc.

Clean at least one fuel tank. Transfer all the fuel to other tank, open inspection port and make sure you don't have gallons is rusty water and or sludge in the tank.
Change all your fuel fliters.

Wair for the right weather.
Do not go with any head winds, no matter how light.
Good luck

Wxx3 said:

I hope you have a captain with some experience on Krogens.
The first time I ever had a fuel issue was in that exact trip you propose.
Caused by seas rough enough to stir the sludge at the bottom of the tank.

I see, you don't want to wait until spring. Ok, but wait until you have light winds, less than 5 knots and almost flat seas, less than a foot.

If you got such conditions, don't stop until you must.

A boat in the condition you describe can make the trip, but the rougher the seas, the more likelihood you have of something not working, breaking, etc.

Clean at least one fuel tank. Transfer all the fuel to other tank, open inspection port and make sure you don't have gallons is rusty water and or sludge in the tank.
Change all your fuel fliters.

Wair for the right weather.
Do not go with any head winds, no matter how light.
Good luck

Click to expand...

Richard, your wisdom is invaluable. I might end up having to wait to Spring, I'm just trying not to. Mother nature will decide.

Planned on waiting for decent weather. My personal aim was greater than 32 degrees, winds less than 10, and seas less than 2-3 with a window of 3-4 days (trip is two). Maybe that's too aggressive.

Sludge in the fuel tank is currently my biggest concern. Does anyone know what it takes to polish without a polishing system on board?

bridaus said:

Richard, your wisdom is invaluable. I might end up having to wait to Spring, I'm just trying not to. Mother nature will decide.

Planned on waiting for decent weather. My personal aim was greater than 32 degrees, winds less than 10, and seas less than 2-3 with a window of 3-4 days (trip is two). Maybe that's too aggressive.

Sludge in the fuel tank is currently my biggest concern. Does anyone know what it takes to polish without a polishing system on board?

Click to expand...

The thanks need to be emptied, cleaned, and probably new fuel. I would not polish what is in there given your comments about the boat sitting so long. You will likely need to bring the boat to a yard capable of such services as many marina locations will not let such activities be performed on their grounds. This probably means splashing boat and getting a tow to such a yard.

bridaus said:

Ok, short but momentous update, and I'll probably start a new thread when I have time. Boat appears to be mine now... knock on wood.

42 Kadey Krogen. 120 HP Lehman. Neglected cosmetically, maintained to a basic standard in my book mechanically. I will be cleaning it out first, then spending time with it, then moving it. I'm closing to booking a delivery captain and mechanic to help move it.

Liability insurance was easy to get, hull insurance is proving to be very difficult.

All advice has been excellent, I think the only advice I may not want to follow (but I hear you) is the wait until Spring. It's 7-8 knots cruise, therefore 19 hours (if I recall), and the local captain is not fazed by it. I'm hoping to get a window where it is not snotty. What that definition is.... up for debate. If that is not possible, I'll consider myself forced to wait...

I'm a person who researches and prepares fastidiously, I have copied down every single suggestion in the thread and am reviewing the big logistical challenge. Exciting times ahead.

Click to expand...

You do not say where you are going to end up in RI but you may find that hull insurance is required at marinas. Whether you intend to stay at a marina or just have it hauled there it is typically required where we are in the NE.

feb/ march is early to expect settled weather.
It is good to ride the ebb out of the sound and the flood into RI to add to your speed.

bayview said:

feb/ march is early to expect settled weather.
It is good to ride the ebb out of the sound and the flood into RI to add to your speed.

Click to expand...

I was able to do just that pretty well with a 15-18 knot cruise.
Not so helpful when I had the 6-7 knot trawler.