King salmon season - Alaska

Hi folks, bad news. Alaska Fish and Game have sent out notice that King Salmon fishing through out Alaska will be severely affected by shut downs of King salmon retention.

I can speak to Southeast around Ketchikan. April 1 through June 24th there will be no sport fishing with King Salmon retention in all of Clarence Straits from Snow Pass area to Cape Chacon across to below Cape Fox on the main land.

Catch and immediate release is allowed.

Al-Ketchikan

Hi Al, thanks for the heads up. There’s going to be a lot of unhappy anglers out there.

Al, Not too much different for non-residents than last season, when it was one king allowed for the season. Very sad state of affairs.

Ken E. said:

Al, Not too much different for non-residents than last season, when it was one king allowed for the season. Very sad state of affairs.

Click to expand...

Ken
Maybe not so sad to all. I've been sport fishing AK for a long time. It has been clear that King stocks are diminishing. Some major moves need to be done. Several reasons for lowered salmon stocks beyond being over fished.

Whether Orcas in Puget sound or Kings in AK, seals and sea lions are disrupting the balance. This will get interesting, it is now well beyond keeping the sport fishing in check.

+1 to Sunchaser's comments. The sea lions and seals in the Columbia River below Bonneville Dam are enjoying a feast on the Chinook and other species of salmon.


The law regarding taking the sea lions has recently been relaxed. I don't have specifics but I would bet it will be challenged in court by the "Save the Sea Lions" tree huggers.

sunchaser said:

Whether Orcas in Puget sound or Kings in AK, seals and sea lions are disrupting the balance.

Click to expand...

Really?

Weren't there Orca, seals, sea lions and a gazillion salmon on this coast before we (Europeans) turned up? Me-thinks we are the major contributor to salmon stocks declining.

GFC said:

The sea lions and seals in the Columbia River below Bonneville Dam are enjoying a feast on the Chinook and other species of salmon.

Click to expand...

Again...a problem of our making having disrupted the natural flow of the river.

What happened to the Catch, Fillet and Release fishing method?

MurrayM said:

Again...a problem of our making having disrupted the natural flow of the river.

Click to expand...

Yes Murray we all understand there are too many people. Too many dams, boats and politicians too. I prefer sterilization of - who - exactly? Until Justin makes that decision, other cooler heads will get involved.

In both WA and BC a toker party or two will likely come up with a very good solution for replenishing the salmon stocks. ANd naturally forget about it the next morning.

Recognizing the problem is the first step. But the easiest thing to do is nothing as you suggest, hardly a cure.

sunchaser said:

Yes Murray we all understand there are too many people. Too many dams, boats and politicians too. I prefer sterilization of - who - exactly? Until Justin makes that decision, other cooler heads will get involved.

In both WA and BC a toker party or two will likely come up with a very good solution for replenishing the salmon stocks. ANd naturally forget about it the next morning.

Recognizing the problem is the first step. But the easiest thing to do is nothing as you suggest, hardly a cure.

Click to expand...

I suggested doing nothing?

Just pointing out that seals, sea lions, and killer whales were here when we arrived and salmon stocks were HUGE. They are not the problem.

MurrayM said:

I suggested doing nothing?

Click to expand...

OK, your suggestions, specific for the AK kings are ???

Up in South-central Alaska the King fishing has been very good in the salt water, late returns but good numbers of fish. Our winter king fishery is still going strong, when I pulled out at the beginning of October it was HOT. I landed six in 2 1/2 hours, boating two 20 lb fish and releasing a 30 lb fish after limiting out (2). I limited out in typically less than two hours almost every trip out.

My understanding is that these fish come primarily from Washington/Canada and are up here to feed before returning South. We got so effective at catching the salmon in the rivers that restrictions were set on the rivers and days fishing were limited. Of course that means we started catching them before they get to the river, and we are getting too good at that as well.

I release almost all of the Kings I catch, but do put a few in mine and other peoples freezers. When the fish are still in the salt water they tolerate release very well, in the river they are using energy they need to make it up river to spawn and I personally believe the mortality after multiple catches and releases is harming the reproduction.

We have a lot of anglers here who fish for the fun of it in the river, and release all but the largest fish. They are only allowed to keep two per season, but fish all summer hoping for the largest fish to enter on their ticket after keeping the first good fish they catch. If they kept a second, their fishing activity would be over for the summer.

No limits in certain salt water areas, limit of five per season in other areas.

sunchaser said:

OK, your suggestions, specific for the AK kings are ???

Click to expand...

Reduce commercial fishery. Reduce sport fishery. Reduce catch in international waters. Limit First Nations food fishery.

Establish no further logging/development buffer zones which extend well beyond a rivers natural maximum meandering and allow these forests to fully mature.

Take a full watershed/biosphere approach to development/management...such as accounting for downstream effects from tributaries.

Limit and stop ocean acidification to protect feed species.

That’s a start.

Did you know that in Haida origin stories, they tell of taking salmon eggs from rivers and carrying those eggs in baskets of wet moss to rivers that didn’t have salmon? That means the abundance of salmon on this coast was human caused.

Humans created, or at least encouraged, the abundance of west coast salmon in the past...maybe we can do it again.

I realize this is poking a hornet nest, but part of the problem is mixed information, and a bunch of the problem is political.
The reduced salmon stocks and poor returns are not coast-wide. SE and specifically this area, we are seeing reasonable numbers and the commercial industry is fighting to have that recognized. The dying runs in BC and WA are just not being seen here, but because of political issues, total harvests for the coast are what they see, and SE is required to cut back along with everyone else.
That's not to say that reduced fishing pressure wouldn't help, but it is a drop in the bucket compared to logging, mining, agricultural runoff, and climate change.

I'm a former ocean commercial salmon and tuna fisherman. All the over fishing doesn't occur in North America. Salmon swim across the North Pacific to Asia. And they're fished over there without regulation. But it's not just fishing.
The killer whale problem is related to salmon numbers. So you have to fix the salmon problem before you can impact the killer whale problem. A big part of the salmon problem is what they eat. Their food is no longer abundant. Herring is a main source of food along with other small schooling fish. Herring was fished to near annihilation on the West Coast, and then the rendering plants moved to Alaska where they repeated the process of elimination. By 1935 the herring population was crashing. 90% of the herring caught were sent to rendering plants. By 1939 herring fishing was closed in SE Alaska except for bait. In the 1950s Russian and Japanese ships trawling for herring in the Bering Sea. They took 146,000 metric tons in 1970. Herring fishing in western states has closed, reopened and populations crashed more than once.
Also sardine populations went thru the same process. They were about wiped out in 1950. The fishery was closed for many years but opened again. The population crashed again.
A blue fin tuna recently sold for over a million dollars. If they were abundant the price should be a few thousand per ton. Japan has no concept of conservation. Because they have nearly wiped out their local herring, they buy herring eggs from the US, further reducing future populations. Herring eggs are gathered off kelp and other natural or man made objects. But some herring is caught by seiners in some states. They get the eggs, but the herring is dead. Those eggs and those herring are our fisheries future.

MurrayM said:

Reduce commercial fishery. Reduce sport fishery. Reduce catch in international waters. Limit First Nations food fishery.

Establish no further logging/development buffer zones which extend well beyond a rivers natural maximum meandering and allow these forests to fully mature.

Take a full watershed/biosphere approach to development/management...such as accounting for downstream effects from tributaries.

Limit and stop ocean acidification to protect feed species.

Click to expand...

We all have our favorite reasons for the decline in west coast salmon. The rivers that produce Chinook typically host at least 2 or 3 other species of salmon that aren't in jeopardy.... In SE there is no shortage of Chums or Pinks... they spawn in the same waters... I think emphasis should be placed in areas that target a specific specie.

I don’t know anything about NW Salmon so I always find these discussions interesting. Many of us with fishing backgrounds have chimed in on this subject before. I worked on the fish boats in SoCal from the mid 70s through mid 80,s. Saw a decline of many species in that duration. There are no easy answers and protein rules. Avoiding over fished species, and letting them get back to sustainable levels is one method though. I get it, it’s not an exact science, but the Scientist do their best to protect the stocks and future generations.

Ka_sea_ta said:

...In SE there is no shortage of Chums or Pinks..

Click to expand...

Just guessing, but I'm pretty sure the numbers today would be lower than 150 years ago.

Gbinterim said:

Hi Al, thanks for the heads up. There’s going to be a lot of unhappy anglers out there.

Click to expand...

Actually most ALASKANS don't get upset with fishery closures. It is the guides from outside that raise hell. Most Alaskans understand that they are protecting the run.

As far as I know (none of us are aquatic scientist) the runs have been going bad for at least the last few decades. The runs have also been reduced because the Environmental Waco Terrorist have been successful on the Columbia River to shut down hatcheries. A lot of them.

Thanks Al for the info. Our main reason for going to Sitka this summer was to fish for Kings. We may have to readjust our cruise this summer.

Alaskan Sea-Duction said:

Thanks Al for the info. Our main reason for going to Sitka this summer was to fish for Kings. We may have to readjust our cruise this summer.

Click to expand...

Still lots of kings here, and the fishing has been pretty good lately. You southerners just don't get to keep very many of the fish you catch up here.

MurrayM said:

Just guessing, but I'm pretty sure the numbers today would be lower than 150 years ago.

Click to expand...

yeah but the sea otters were getting their ass handed to em... Whales too

Ka_sea_ta said:

yeah but the sea otters were getting their ass handed to em... Whales too

Click to expand...

Thanks for helping me make my point

Stripper said:

Still lots of kings here, and the fishing has been pretty good lately. You southerners just don't get to keep very many of the fish you catch up here.

Click to expand...

Well I am an Alaska resident. Did I misread Al's post. King fishing will be closed in SE from April to end of June. Correct? Would not this closure affect Sitka too?

If it's similar to last year, the coast will be open with limit restrictions. I think the purpose is to protect the fish close to their terminal area

ASD wrote;
“Well I am an Alaska resident”
And where do you reside?

This whole thing is ridiculous,

Before Europeans came to western America there was fish everywhere. Even in the 70’s it almost looked like one could walk across streams. Fish and water about equal. Then people were asking “where’d all the fish go”? But now there’s far far fewer still.

Over fishing .... that’s all there is to it.
Forget the whales and sealions. It’s fisherMEN.
And that of course is the product of overpopulation. For what ever reason man is so stupid he can’t even control his numbers. So if the lack of fish is to be resolved the number of people needs to be drastically reduced .. probably back to about 1950 levels .. or earlier.

This post is sounding like a grade school classroom after recess. “Eddie pushed him I saw it”.

Alaskan Sea-Duction said:

Actually most ALASKANS don't get upset with fishery closures. It is the guides from outside that raise hell. Most Alaskans understand that they are protecting the run.

As far as I know (none of us are aquatic scientist) the runs have been going bad for at least the last few decades. The runs have also been reduced because the Environmental Waco Terrorist have been successful on the Columbia River to shut down hatcheries. A lot of them.

Thanks Al for the info. Our main reason for going to Sitka this summer was to fish for Kings. We may have to readjust our cruise this summer.

Click to expand...

Tom

Shut down hatcheries? What is the back story here, it seems crazy.

Ka_sea_ta said:

In SE there is no shortage of Chums or Pinks... they spawn in the same waters... I think emphasis should be placed in areas that target a specific specie.

Click to expand...

The heavy return of Chums is due to hatchery fish. Now Pinks are being considered for hatchery application. Too the hatcheries have done a yeoman's job of producing King stock. A fair question may be the status of hatchery Kings. At this point the assumption is "All" Kings

The Kings in question here relate to the Wrangell/Petersburg/Ketchikan (And I suppose the Juneau system) area relate to the
Taku Stikine and Unuk rivers as they are "Treaty" rivers with Canada. There fore are focus points that now reflect drastic action, abit late.

To Murray- I would add in a large part, is the awful decision to harvest the spawning herring. In the case of Alaska Fish and Game, they will not listen to the anecdotal history, recorded history of the damage to the spawning herring the over fishing has caused. I have little information on the Canadian spawning herring harvest, although I have traveled on the ferries to Port Hardy where herring skiffs used in the harvest were on board returning home. That may have been terminated, it has been years from those ferry voyages.
If you don't learn from history you will repeat the errors and the State of Alaska has.
Other than that, friend, I will refrain from further debate, not that you are or not, correct in any or all aspects of your position, more that we can discuss subjects that are neutral, like boats

Alaskan Sea-Duction said:

Well I am an Alaska resident. Did I misread Al's post. King fishing will be closed in SE from April to end of June. Correct? Would not this closure affect Sitka too?

Click to expand...

I meant this more tongue-in-cheek, not realizing you claim residency here.
Not sure yet what will happen here, the regs. seemed to be a moving target last year and a lot of folks were caught off-guard.

Many good points here, there are a lot of factors we will never be able to pin down. The other species of salmon seldom fail in the same year, but there are huge fluctuations in run strength. Kings have been on the short end of the stick consistently, as they are in the most demand by sport fishers. We used to blame Asian offshore nets for intercepting the runs, then we blamed the commercial guys for intercepting the fish, and of course we always blame set netters along the shore around the rivers for intercepting the fish... They blame sport fishermen and catch and release

Here, the herring numbers have been down since the Exxon spill. Historically we go through cycles of overfishing, for the past 100 years, long before refrigeration existed on ships. The halibut stocks were almost wiped out in the 1800's in South central Alaska by PNW fleets, but rebounded when the overfishing stopped. We are in another slump with halibut stocks currently, locals tend to blame the charter boats that take 60% of the sport caught halibut annually. The fish are probably still there, but sport boats can't fish the deeper waters long lines do.

All we see to fix the issue is bag limit changes, closures, and size restrictions on the fish. None of those seem to change the dynamic quickly enough for us to see an improvement. Lots of issues, very few answers... Climate change is warming the water and other species are moving North preying on food stocks the salmon depend on.

Get out there and enjoy what you can while you can! As much as we would like the world to stay static to our memories of how "it should be/used to be" that's not going to happen.