Anchor chain and swivel and anchor.

There seems to be multiple levels of WLL in the 5/8 chain, which would you get and would you get a Mantus integrated shackle swivel( this also comes in several WLL for 5/8? My boat is a 36 footer that was stretched to 41(Pursuit 365I) with an outboard clamshell and small "Euro-transom".
While were are at it, the factory anchor is a 35 lb ss plow through the bow, thoughts about that. I also carry a Frotress anchor that Fortress alleges is for a 39-45 boat and I have 30 feet of chain on that.
I know this boat is minimal for long distance cruising, but I own it and until I absolutely KNOW that I love cruising, I am waiting of the N or KK or similar.
Thanks for all of your help!

5/8 chain seems awfully big, did you mean 5/16? Our 38' PT sedan has 5/16 chain, an #2 Mantus swivel and a 48lb Excel anchor.

You are correct, I meant to write 5/16. Thank you for pointing that out. The reat is accurate though.

If you’re using a windlass, you want windlass chain, which has short links. It comes in Grade 30 (BBB) and 40 (HT). HT is stronger than BBB, but not by as much as the WLL’s imply - different multiples for the two, a marketing gimmick, I guess. Either should be fine for your boat. Don’t forget the strength of the swivel, which is likely far less than the chain. When I researched replacing my chain (went from 1/4” BBB to 5/16 HT), I ditched the terminal swivel and D shackle setup the boat came with, and went to back-to-back 3/8” galvanized alloy shackles, which have the same ultimate strength as the chain. To my surprise, the shackles work better than the swivel; I’ve never had to fiddle with the anchor (55 lb Delta) to get it the right way over the roller. Don’t forget to double seize the shackle pins.

IMO 5/16 HT is a good size and strength for your boat. If you have or plan to use a windlass, you MUST match the chain to the windlass "gypsy". If you're buying a windlass, you can decide on your chain and buy the windlass to match, if you already have a windlass, you can either match what you have or (usually) buy a replacement gypsy to match the chain.

As far as matching WLL limits goes - it really is true that your chain is only as strong as its weakest link. For links and or swivels you should at least match the WLL of the chain or possibly go higher - never lower.

Ken

I highly recommend the Ultra Anchor Swivel, has an impressive working load and great design. I have one 1/2 version for my primary and one for my secondary anchor.
Also if you are worried about the chain breaking get/make yourself a good snubber as that will reduce the peak loads.

Careful with swivels! They are not bad in and of themselves, but with how most boaters attach them. Most swivels are not designed to take a "side load" and should not be attached directly to the anchor. Even some of the very expensive stainless swivels have reportedly failed when attached in this way, and they were side loaded by the boat moving about at anchor.

Something to think about at the very least.
Regards,
Tom

firehoser75 said:

Careful with swivels! They are not bad in and of themselves, but with how most boaters attach them. Most swivels are not designed to take a "side load" and should not be attached directly to the anchor. Even some of the very expensive stainless swivels have reportedly failed when attached in this way, and they were side loaded by the boat moving about at anchor.

Something to think about at the very least.
Regards,
Tom

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That the beauty of the Mantus swivel, it designed shackle has no side load....

Agree on most swivels, once you have seen the ultra in person there is no way that’s breaking before the chain. In all fairness I think it’s also 10-15x the cost of a cheap swivel.

We use 5/16 G40 chain with a Mantus swivel. We are very happy with both.

The others have covered the chain, but regarding the anchor. I have used plows, danforths, and next gen anchors. The next gen anchors are far superior.

Get a Rocna, Mantus, Manson, Sarca, or Spade. They are significantly better than the older styles.

Chris71 said:

...and would you get a Mantus integrated shackle swivel( this also comes in several WLL for 5/8? My boat is a 36 footer that was stretched to 41(Pursuit 365I) with an outboard clamshell and small "Euro-transom".
While were are at it, the factory anchor is a 35 lb ss plow through the bow, thoughts about that. I also carry a Frotress anchor that Fortress alleges is for a 39-45 boat and I have 30 feet of chain on that.

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If by plow you mean a Delta, it could work well enough depending on your typical holding ground. You might hum a few bars about the bottom material that you most commonly encounter.

If by plow you mean CQR... I don't have any experience with one of those...

The Fortress chart won't load just now, but sounds like maybe you have an FX-23? If so, should be good. And you boat has relatively low windage too, yes? Even better...

Were it me, I'd only use a swivel to solve a specific problem. If I had to use a swivel (we do) I'd choose a good one, and I'd pay particular attention to a given model's potential for dealing with side-loading.

Commander Nomad said:

The others have covered the chain, but regarding the anchor. I have used plows, danforths, and next gen anchors. The next gen anchors are far superior.

Get a Rocna, Mantus, Manson, Sarca, or Spade. They are significantly better than the older styles.

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I don't have experience with those, but I can say the SuperMAX would also be a very good choice.

-Chris

Commander Nomad said:

The others have covered the chain, but regarding the anchor. I have used plows, danforths, and next gen anchors. The next gen anchors are far superior.

Get a Rocna, Mantus, Manson, Sarca, or Spade. They are significantly better than the older styles.

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+1 We've had a Classic Rocna, a Mantus Supreme and currently have a Rocna Vulcan. I keep a Fortress as a stern anchor or emergency spare. It's is too small to be a proper bower.

I would never use a Danforth style anchor as a primary anchor.

IF you’re using a windlass, one of my recommendations is to GO BIG with your anchor. Although this is my thought, others might recommend otherwise. I have 5/16 HT chain and an 80# Maxwell Supreme. I also have a Fortress FX55 unused on our boat. If I had that purchase to do over, I most likely would purchase a Guardian version of Fortress and a heavier one at that.

EDIT: WOOPS! Manson Supreme anchor and the windlass is a Maxwell HWC2200 operating on 24vdc

I have a Maxwell VWC 3500 with 550 feet of 5/16 BBB of chain and a 77lb Rocna Anchor.

That windless shore is purty there Tom!

What do people think about having the anchor shank through a slot in the bowsprit? Especially with a single bow roller.
Strength could be a plus,but ? convenience. I think I`d prefer an open two roller set up. We`ve only one, open at the far end. We often pick up a National Parks mooring, to get a good pennant run we lift the anchor out of position, sit it on its butt on a mat(it`s a Super Sarca) and run the pennant over the bow roller.

wpc691 said:

If you’re using a windlass, you want windlass chain, which has short links. It comes in Grade 30 (BBB) and 40 (HT). HT is stronger than BBB, but not by as much as the WLL’s imply - different multiples for the two, a marketing gimmick, I guess. Either should be fine for your boat. Don’t forget the strength of the swivel, which is likely far less than the chain. When I researched replacing my chain (went from 1/4” BBB to 5/16 HT), I ditched the terminal swivel and D shackle setup the boat came with, and went to back-to-back 3/8” galvanized alloy shackles, which have the same ultimate strength as the chain. To my surprise, the shackles work better than the swivel; I’ve never had to fiddle with the anchor (55 lb Delta) to get it the right way over the roller. Don’t forget to double seize the shackle pins.

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And I also have a 55# Delta and don't need a swivel at all, just the one shackle from 3/8" BBB chain to anchor. The shorter links of BBB make it heavier per foot and less likely to kink in the chain locker.

BruceK said:

What do people think about having the anchor shank through a slot in the bowsprit? Especially with a single bow roller.
Strength could be a plus,but ? convenience. I think I`d prefer an open two roller set up. We`ve only one, open at the far end. We often pick up a National Parks mooring, to get a good pennant run we lift the anchor out of position, sit it on its butt on a mat(it`s a Super Sarca) and run the pennant over the bow roller.

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That's how mine is set up and it's been battle tested with a 60 Hatt stuck on my bow like a pickle on a fork on SF Bay at anchor. My single 33# Lewmar Claw held us both through it all.

I was still able to operate my windlass after the allision albeit with a bent anchor roller and cracked wood pulpit.

Not sure the question on the anchor shank?

We have a fiberglass aftermarket anchor pulpit. The anchor drops down through a slot in the pulpit with a roller on the inboard side. There is another elevated roller that gets the chain up to the height of the windlass as it travels sternward.

It works great with a 100lb Manson Boss anchor, aside from the fact that the pulpit was sized for something smaller than that anchor with 1/2"HT chain.

I'm going to redo it in the same configuration, just a larger slot and a bit beefier layup.

How do you like the Boss?

I prefer to match the windlass lifting ability to the total weight of the anchor and chain.

A 35 ft boat can get away with a 35lb anchor (one pound per foot) buy if a front or thunder storm passes , you will sleep better with a 45 or 60 .

FF said:

I prefer to match the windlass lifting ability to the total weight of the anchor and chain.

A 35 ft boat can get away with a 35lb anchor (one pound per foot) buy if a front or thunder storm passes , you will sleep better with a 45 or 60 .

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That is not my choice! I want overkill so that I need not worry about a windlass motor heating up resulting in a failure. My windlass is a Maxwell HWC2200 with a lift capacity of 2200#. That is over one ton.

I do agree that I sleep better using a heavier anchor than with one recommended by one who sleeps soundly on shore or in a slip.

Rocna recommends NOT using a swivel. I also paint markers on my chain.

Alaskan Sea-Duction said:

Rocna recommends NOT using a swivel. I also paint markers on my chain.

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Nice of them! I find that even with a swivel my chain gets twisted as the boat swings around the anchor.

foggysail said:

Nice of them! I find that even with a swivel my chain gets twisted as the boat swings around the anchor.

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The most twist I have had is a quarter turn, no big deal.

I think one of the factors that folks don't mention when talking about chain twist is their anchoring depth. Anchoring up here in 60-100' of water your anchor has enough time to spin a bit before it gets to the boat and untwist itself. Anchoring on the ICW in 10' the anchor will be in about the same position at the boat as it was when it broke free.
I don't really notice much chain twist with or without a swivel, but our anchor regularly starts coming over the roller upside down. The weight balance quickly flips it the right way as it comes in, if it didn't I would be looking for a different anchor design. That last little flip is the only real reason I keep our swivel.

Nomad Willy said:

How do you like the Boss?

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I didn't have my notifications set up correctly here, sorry I'm way late responding.

We have yet to anchor anywhere really rough or go through a really big storm so I can't say for sure. Anchoring on the gulf side of Florida (keep in mind it's oversized) we have to be careful backing down. It sets immediately and snatches hard, if we don't bump in and out of gear we get jerked very hard when the chain goes taught. It sets within 5' of hitting the bottom.

I will say based on our experience with other boats and other anchors, oversized Boss is great. We are dropping 100lb Boss on all 1/2" chain for a 55' classic motor yacht displacing just shy of 70,000lbs and I would trust that anchor setup for anything up to a named hurricane no questions.

If you want specifics pm me, but it is in my experience on par with Spade, Rocna, Mantus, and the other next gen anchors. I actually selling my 85lb Mantus from my previous boat (phenomenal anchor) - the Boss works great and with no roll bar it fits better

We anchor out 365 days a year and have no swivel and can count on a few fingers the amount of times we've had twist in the last 800 days of anchoring.
More often than not we anchor in tidal current areas (no neighbours) so 180 degree change every 6 hours or so.

We used to get twists regularly in our first 100 days out.
That changed dramatically when I removed the roller and carved a chain groove with a 4 inch grinder whilst onboard.

Twists returned after a big blow slightly stretched the chain, not enough to affect the chain wheel but noticeable twists were evident in the chain and no amount of letting it all hang out could get rid of it.

Chain needed replacing anyway so did that when out several months ago and have had no twists since.
9 times out of 10 I lift the anchor from the wheelhouse and it always comes up straight.

Alaskan Sea-Duction said:

The most twist I have had is a quarter turn, no big deal.

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Twisted chain doesn’t roll properly in my windlass’ gypsy