Trawlers thought

First time posting and new to the site. I just have a question. How small can a trawler be and still be called a trawler? What do you think about an electric trawler? Thank you and all feedback is welcomed, good bad and other
wise

Welcome to the forum! We're very loose here on the definition of a trawler. You will find some members with boats under 25'. The practicality of an electric boat will depend on how far and how fast you want to go. At this point, it's probably not a viable option for long distance cruising. For a local boat at slower speed it's probably doable, but seriously more expensive.

Ted

I just started a thread on that subject in: http://www.trawlerforum.com/forums/s3/my-new-tiny-trawler-42353.html

The thread notes that 22-23' is about the minimum to have enough cruising "stuff" on board for overnights.

Duffy makes an electrical powered open cockpit "cocktail cruiser" of about 20'. It uses lead acid batteries and has a range of about 10 miles. You can rent one for an afternoon in places like Newport Beach, Ca.

It would be fairly easy for a builder of 20-25' inboard cruisers like Sisu, my Pompano, Eastern, etc to add a modern electric motor/battery system which would give you a range of maybe 100 miles using Li batteries. A boat like that would have similar capabilities as my Pompano, but it would only go slow, maybe 6 kts max to stay within efficient "hull speed".

But don't expect that solar panels will keep it running. There just isn't enough roof top space, even on boats with long cabins like the Rosborough 246, to put enough panels on to recharge the batteries.


David

An electric trawler is certainly possible IF you are willing to pay for the required batteries. Your range/speed will be determined by the battery capacity. In other words the more batteries you have the farther you can go between charges. The real issue is charging. An electric powered boat will have to be plugged into shore power or run a generator to recharge the batteries. Generator charging is less efficient than just running a diesel propulsion engine. A typical trawler could be electric and solar charged IF you only run the boat every two-three weeks. I say that because the amount of solar a boat can carry is quite limited relative to the power required to move the boat.

Hey Seablu, I'm fairly new here myself.

I'm not very pedantic about definitions, but since you asked I'll give my opinion. "Trawling" is a form of fishing that involves dragging nets at displacement speed. That required certain characteristics of the hull, engine and running gear. The private market adopted that name to describe a boat that generally was fairly heavy for her length and operated at displacement speeds (or thereabouts). So a "trawler" as a private cruising boat is an evolution of the original fishing boats called "trawler". Therefore, I think it would be hard to find a written definition that covered the minimum size.

I believe in general, you could go with a fairly small boat and still call it a trawler if it operated at a low speed to length ratio. I've seen a 28' boat that could be described as a trawler except that it had 150 hp engine. As soon as a boat starts operating in the semi-displacement range I'd prefer to call it a cruiser rather than a trawler. But my friends with "fast trawlers" would likely disagree and at the end of the day we'd all still sit down for a beer.

Language is a funny thing.

Search is your friend: there are many threads about the impracticality of electric propulsion, you just have to look. As to your question about the definition of “trawler”: who cares what you call it? The descriptor will not affect how it functions and what else matters?

Seablue898

Thank you all for your opinion and knowledge, however, i am in research mod on this because i want to build one in the rang of 20 to 28 feet. Reason being is I've never seen one the way i want it so i have to build it. Having said that my boat will have features of three kinds of boats in one based on a trawler vs a cabin cruiser. Speed is good but sometimes over rated. I don't mine going slow if it means getting the job done. It will be a heavy boat for its size but if it will do the loop with ease im happy. A boat that size i don't think is good for ocean crossing. Thats ok the USA has lots to offer a boater so im not in a rush. Thank you all again for reading a dream of mine and allowing me to see through your eyes and minds.

If you are interested in building your own electric trawler in the 20-28' range then here are some ideas:


Start with a proven hull like the Sisu 22 or the Eastern Explorer 248 here- https://www.easternboats.com/our-boats. Eastern will sell you a bare hull and top- you finish it yourself and add your own electric power train. Since these are downeaster hulls, they have decent room below decks for a motor and battery bank.


Look at Torqeedo a supplier of small electric drives and Li battery systems. If you only want to go slow then consider their Cruise 4.0 pod drive. See https://www.torqeedo.com/us/en-us/products/pod-drives/cruise-2.0-4.0-fp/M-1250-00.html. It can be mounted just aft of the keel on the Eastern so the pod is reasonably protected. But it will take a lot of very expensive batteries to push it for very long even at a slow 6-7 kts.


David

Wifey B: 8 inches. Anything less than that is a dinghy.

You can call anything you want to a trawler. Doesn't make it one but then who is to say.

hi , I am new here as well. long time boater, currently have a 30 ft sea ray cruiser. have been looking at trawlers for a couple of years with a goal of doing the loop.
I like the albin and the grand banks... any opinions ?
secondly, I think I like the idea of a single screw with a bow thruster, less maintenance cost and easier to move around in the engine room.
third, seems like fuel tanks are a big issue with these older boats ( mid 70s to late 80s ) a broker told me a boat I was looking at has morel tanks...do they last ?

I thought you had to have a helm door to be a trawler.

Check out the Rosborough line of boats. Even their 22 footer has a helm door.

https://www.rosboroughboatsusa.com/

Never heard the helm door definition, but a quick thought is it fits, to a ponit.

tn6437 said:

hi , I am new here as well. long time boater, currently have a 30 ft sea ray cruiser. have been looking at trawlers for a couple of years with a goal of doing the loop.
I like the albin and the grand banks... any opinions ?
secondly, I think I like the idea of a single screw with a bow thruster, less maintenance cost and easier to move around in the engine room.
third, seems like fuel tanks are a big issue with these older boats ( mid 70s to late 80s ) a broker told me a boat I was looking at has morel tanks...do they last ?

Click to expand...

Probably meant monel for the tank. It is a nickel rich alloy. Tanks in older trawler certainly can be an issue. I am planning on replacing mine in the next two years proactively rather than waiting for them to start leaking at an inconvenient time.

Trawler is an advertising term with almost no meaning for non commercial boats.

SALE! Hi Fi ,Heavy Duty are other examples.

Most folks here are cruisers , if they leave the dock.

Wasnt there a member who had a 30 something all electric catamaran? Had been cruising the Fl Keys for a year or more?

He rarely needed to run an engine or genset because there was quite a bit of solar (possible with the cat).

Also, his household needs sermed to cut into his daily cruising range which was pretty short comparec to conventional power...but it seemed to work for him.

We are on the brink of having more desings...but it is still a struggling concept.

Size isn't important (don't listen to your wife or gf!). My last boat (C Dory 25) was 25 feet and I considered it a trawler. IMO a minimum requirement would be having a head, some sort of galley and a totally enclosed design.

tn6437 said:

hi , I am new here as well. long time boater, currently have a 30 ft sea ray cruiser. have been looking at trawlers for a couple of years with a goal of doing the loop.
I like the albin and the grand banks... any opinions ?
secondly, I think I like the idea of a single screw with a bow thruster, less maintenance cost and easier to move around in the engine room.
third, seems like fuel tanks are a big issue with these older boats ( mid 70s to late 80s ) a broker told me a boat I was looking at has morel tanks...do they last ?

Click to expand...

Of the various metals used for fuel tanks Monel is the best by a big margin. Monel is a nickel-copper alloy and the most corrosion resistant of all the common metals. Unless Monel fuel tanks have been physically damaged they will be fine. Monel is seldom used now because of cost.

tn6437 said:

hi , I am new here as well. long time boater, currently have a 30 ft sea ray cruiser. have been looking at trawlers for a couple of years with a goal of doing the loop.
I like the albin and the grand banks... any opinions ?
secondly, I think I like the idea of a single screw with a bow thruster, less maintenance cost and easier to move around in the engine room.
third, seems like fuel tanks are a big issue with these older boats ( mid 70s to late 80s ) a broker told me a boat I was looking at has morel tanks...do they last ?

Click to expand...

I feel like this is a bit off the OP’s original topic but I am compelled to answer...
I’m fairly new to my 32 Grand Banks and I’m still VERY surprised at how easy it is to handle. The rudder seems, to me, to be huge compared to many of the boats that is see dry docked next to me at the marina. Makes backing easier. It’s something you might consider when making your decision. I originally planned on a bow thruster but now Its been pushed to the bottom of the list of upgrades.
And, yes, maintenance is fairly easy. I’m sure it’ll be much less expensive than your present boat.
Perhaps a new thread? And good luck!

A couple of friends, experienced sailors, like to call my Albin-25 (avatar) a "mini trawler". However, as the DuNORD was built in 1976, before the term "trawler" became so common for recreational cruisers, I prefer "Scandinavian-style Motor Cruiser".

Moby Nick said:

A couple of friends, experienced sailors, like to call my Albin-25 (avatar) a "mini trawler". However, as the DuNORD was built in 1976, before the term "trawler" became so common for recreational cruisers, I prefer "Scandinavian-style Motor Cruiser".

Click to expand...

I think either name is appropriate. I had one for a couple of years,fun boats.

To me, a Trawler should have multi day capability, with a head and shower, as well as a kitchen and at least one designated sleeping area. My boat has a plaque claiming to be both a Trawler and a Yacht, which I actually find to be quite amusing. I do consider it to be a trawler, being low powered and full displacement with the features I listed, but certainly not a Yacht...

djmarchand said:

If you are interested in building your own electric trawler in the 20-28' range then here are some ideas:


Start with a proven hull like the Sisu 22 or the Eastern Explorer 248 here- https://www.easternboats.com/our-boats. Eastern will sell you a bare hull and top- you finish it yourself and add your own electric power train. Since these are downeaster hulls, they have decent room below decks for a motor and battery bank.


Look at Torqeedo a supplier of small electric drives and Li battery systems. If you only want to go slow then consider their Cruise 4.0 pod drive. See https://www.torqeedo.com/us/en-us/products/pod-drives/cruise-2.0-4.0-fp/M-1250-00.html. It can be mounted just aft of the keel on the Eastern so the pod is reasonably protected. But it will take a lot of very expensive batteries to push it for very long even at a slow 6-7 kts.


David

Click to expand...

I like how you think, however this boat is my concept boat which will be built to regen underway. Therefore i will be designing and building the propulsion system. I don't like torqueedo as they cost way to much for such a short range. I want my hull with twin screw drive and keel. Wont need a thruster for a boat that size and wont plan on docking much anyway
Have not had a chance to check out the hulls you were talking about because my net has been out and still acting up, so sorry for late reply.
In short my boat will have most things onboard a bigger has plus all the features i wont. Full fishing setup so tender cannot be in my way. Live well and bait well. At least one state room and dry head. Small freezer, full galley. Nav station all electronics and anchor wench. And i must be able to walk completely around the outside of boat with cabin roof even with boat sides.
I know i am asking a lot from a small boat and more the reason i may have to build it myself, and i want a shallow draft of which i may not get. Including other features that only i will know about onboard. Heavy, so speed is really bushing it, as if am not already
Having said this, im also looking into if i can use a tugboat style propeller. It will be one of a kind and the last boat i will ever need. Thanks for reading. A lot of research to do and years out from building

djmarchand said:

I just started a thread on that subject in: http://www.trawlerforum.com/forums/s3/my-new-tiny-trawler-42353.html

The thread notes that 22-23' is about the minimum to have enough cruising "stuff" on board for overnights.

Duffy makes an electrical powered open cockpit "cocktail cruiser" of about 20'. It uses lead acid batteries and has a range of about 10 miles. You can rent one for an afternoon in places like Newport Beach, Ca.

It would be fairly easy for a builder of 20-25' inboard cruisers like Sisu, my Pompano, Eastern, etc to add a modern electric motor/battery system which would give you a range of maybe 100 miles using Li batteries. A boat like that would have similar capabilities as my Pompano, but it would only go slow, maybe 6 kts max to stay within efficient "hull speed".

But don't expect that solar panels will keep it running. There just isn't enough roof top space, even on boats with long cabins like the Rosborough 246, to put enough panels on to recharge the batteries.


David

Click to expand...

David, those are really good numbers what volt system is it and what ams draw is its sweet spot to cruise at least 4 kts being that 6 is max?

Bkay said:

Hey Seablu, I'm fairly new here myself.

I'm not very pedantic about definitions, but since you asked I'll give my opinion. "Trawling" is a form of fishing that involves dragging nets at displacement speed. That required certain characteristics of the hull, engine and running gear. The private market adopted that name to describe a boat that generally was fairly heavy for her length and operated at displacement speeds (or thereabouts). So a "trawler" as a private cruising boat is an evolution of the original fishing boats called "trawler". Therefore, I think it would be hard to find a written definition that covered the minimum size.

I believe in general, you could go with a fairly small boat and still call it a trawler if it operated at a low speed to length ratio. I've seen a 28' boat that could be described as a trawler except that it had 150 hp engine. As soon as a boat starts operating in the semi-displacement range I'd prefer to call it a cruiser rather than a trawler. But my friends with "fast trawlers" would likely disagree and at the end of the day we'd all still sit down for a beer.

Language is a funny thing.

Click to expand...

I tend to agree with you however the boat i want to build is a trawler but no dragnet. It will be on the slow side but powerful. As i said before, im asking a lot from my boat know i can do it. Hell its been done in other countries already just not in configuration that i want. If i didn't have to trailer it i would not care too much of size. So my boat must pack a punch as well as handle some rough water which trawlers generally can. Thinks for reading.

Woodland Hills said:

Search is your friend: there are many threads about the impracticality of electric propulsion, you just have to look. As to your question about the definition of “trawler”: who cares what you call it? The descriptor will not affect how it functions and what else matters?

Click to expand...

The Hardy Star thanks you as this will be the name of my boat. However, trawler a so i thought was a style of boat which tells you what it can do and handle. My thoughts of what a true trawler is sets it barrings on what i want to use the Hardy Star for. Everything, fishing mostly, cruising, exploring, living on it as long as i have time to and so on, hence trawler. So being that trawlers started as fishing boats and now are being used for private uses things get missed placed. However, i like trawlers and want to do them justice as i use mine in a personal way. its about respect for what one likes and love. The trawler, its the boat for me within my range of money; the most bang for your buck in my opinion.

Is it a better boat fast or slower as a trawler is thought to be?

"A lot of research to do and years out from building."

That is good because energy storage needs some thing better than batteries.

Rebuilding discarded car batt systems might work but to go even 50 miles a day in 12 hours will need both big batts and huge solar.

FF said:

"A lot of research to do and years out from building."

That is good because energy storage needs some thing better than batteries.

Rebuilding discarded car batt systems might work but to go even 50 miles a day in 12 hours will need both big batts and huge solar.

Click to expand...

I am working on that and so far im finding balance and timing is key. Balance in terms of using that right batteries because lithium batts can handle a fast charge better than acid batts can and they can discharge at full power much longer than lead acid. Therefore timing is what will make it all work by being able to crate power to run on under way. I have some small issues to work on but i know i can do this. Although im not in the water yet to take more realistic test but test ive already done gives me momentum to keep going. Why should sailers have all the fun!

TDunn said:

Of the various metals used for fuel tanks Monel is the best by a big margin. Monel is a nickel-copper alloy and the most corrosion resistant of all the common metals. Unless Monel fuel tanks have been physically damaged they will be fine. Monel is seldom used now because of cost.

Click to expand...

You're right TD. If I may meander -

In the early 1900s the Chairman of the nickel company INCO had the last name of Monel. His metallurgists were empowered to find more uses for nickel. At about 67% nickel was mixed with iron and a few other elements. Voila, a star was born and the nickel markets took off.

These wear and chemical resistant metals took off like a flash. Many different names cropped up over the years, a big one being the Incalloy line of products. The weak point of high nickel products is in the weldments. Use the right ones and all is good. The wrong rod and fluxes will lead to seam leakage.

The USN did considerable work in coming up with protocols and guidelines. ASTM and SAE standards were in place 80 years ago for these alloys and fabrications.

O C Diver said:

Welcome to the forum! We're very loose here on the definition of a trawler. You will find some members with boats under 25'. The practicality of an electric boat will depend on how far and how fast you want to go. At this point, it's probably not a viable option for long distance cruising. For a local boat at slower speed it's probably doable, but seriously more expensive.

Ted

Click to expand...

Thank you for your feedback, however this boat has a brain child of mine for some years now. I thought on every aspect of this boat and others before settling on the trawler. I can't seem to find one on the market as i would it to be. Therefore I have to build it. Also i can't afford one anyway but over time i can build one.
This boat has to trailer, another reason why the trawler. A trawler doe not require big hp. Although not a fast boat it makes up for it many other ways. Having expressed that, i think it will make a good platform for electric and if it fails (which it won't) I can always add a motor. But this boat will be unique in many ways as i want features in it and on it that i have not seen in one boat of this size. I know im asking a lot from a small boat but i can do it and it size is part of what will make it unique. The Hardy Star will live. Hardy Star is what i will name my boat.