You Get What You Pay For

A new customer asked me to inspect the work her previous dive service had done a week earlier.

https://youtu.be/mSdRfASiDGc

What alerted the customer to seek a "second opinion"?

BruceK said:

What alerted the customer to seek a "second opinion"?

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She had asked (via text) the other diver when he had last dived the boat. Something about his answer and the timeline he indicated didn't sit right with her. So she asked me to have a look. She was mostly concerned that he hadn't replaced the anode he billed her for. Turns out he did do the anode replacementt, but the rest of the job, not so much.

She's my client now.

Reminds me of a guy wrapping dock pilings in our neighborhood. Charged 100 bucks or so per piling. But he only wrapped the top part. Not all the way to the sea floor. And you are supposed to pressure-wash a few inches below the sea floor. I have wrapped our pilings correctly, and when I heard he finished in 1 day I was skeptical. Dove a neighbor's dock and sure nuff, 2 - 3 feet of bare piling. Not very effective. And... his cell phone apparently doesn't work.

I don't think it's necessary a matter of price, but it's a matter of managing the work and making sure that any contractor you use does the work you're paying for. We completely trust our bottom cleaner but we have someone on site when they do the work and we always inspect it afterwards. We want to know any issues and the state of the anodes and the bottom paint and prop speed.

BandB said:

We completely trust our bottom cleaner but we... always inspect it afterwards.

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I'd say that indicates that you don't trust your bottom cleaner.

fstbttms said:

I'd say that indicates that you don't trust your bottom cleaner.

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If he didn't trust his bottom cleaner, he wouldn't let the diver near his boat. I always check my bottom after the diver cleans it, why wouldn't you. There's almost nothing I don't check after I pay someone to work on it. In the immortal words of president Ronald Reagan, "Trust, but verified ".

Ted

fstbttms said:

I'd say that indicates that you don't trust your bottom cleaner.

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In the aviation business the phrase is......"Trust...but verify"!!!!!

Baker said:

In the aviation business the phrase is......"Trust...but verify"!!!!!

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In business, my wording was to "put anyone beyond any accusation or suspicion of impropriety." If we're there or check, then can't come back later and say problems are due to something the diver did or didn't do. Our divers have commented that they wish everyone did as we do. Divers in South Florida get complaints often a couple of weeks later that they must not have done their job when all that happened was new growth happened. Also on haul outs, divers get negative comments made when they also have done their work well.

Baker said:

In the aviation business the phrase is......"Trust...but verify"!!!!!

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Same attitude in the nuclear power world![emoji848]

Seems like a video overview could easily be delivered with each job. It only added two minutes. Verification accomplished.

That's Nothin'!! I did a sea trial on a boat that had a couple of years of "monthly" cleaning. Boat would not run. Hauled it and there were dime sized barnacles covering the props and rudders.

Diver was summoned by phone to the boatyard. Owner and diver had words. I believe some cash changed hands. Heard it was a good bit of cash.

BDofMSP said:

Seems like a video overview could easily be delivered with each job. It only added two minutes. Verification accomplished.

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My diver shoots about a half dozen before and after stills that he sends along with the email bill. Big help in determining anode replacement, paint's remaining life, and any other issue.

Ted

fstbttms said:

I'd say that indicates that you don't trust your bottom cleaner.

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Trust, but verify.

Some of us have GREAT divers and some don't. I'm fortunate. My guy is very reasonable, does good work and he's paid instantly often with a tip when he completes the bottom.... BUT, I will inspect with my hooka.

He'll occasionally miss a few things but overall a great value and that's the point. Plus he'll replace zincs as needed almost free.

If ya got a good one, take care of him.....(her)

I had a really nice experience in November. My diver had cleaned the boat about a month before and replaced the zincs, all but the transom bonding plates. His report was that she was good to go, didn't need a paint job for at least another year, paint is three years old. There were two areas to comment on. The first was right at the front bottom of the keel where the paint had rubbed off (wonder why ), and the other a little nick out of the port prop, but nothing to cause any issues.

Mid November I had her hauled to have two through hulls put in for my watermaker. As part of the haul they pressure wash her. When she was lifted they looked at her and told me the boat did not need the pressure wash. I then inspected her, paint was great except for a foot or so on the bottom of the keel forward. And yes, there was a little nick out of the prop, bent back by some pliers!
Put the bonding plates on while she was out.

The way I heard it is...

You get what you inspect, not what you expect.

If someone wouldn't mind to say; what is a typical charge for a diver to clean and inspect a bottom? How is the cleaning done, by using a power washer? Being from an inland waterway area I am not sure anyone offers this service in our area, even during the summer months. Just curious, Thanks

Bare Necessities said:

If someone wouldn't mind to say; what is a typical charge for a diver to clean and inspect a bottom? How is the cleaning done, by using a power washer? Being from an inland waterway area I am not sure anyone offers this service in our area, even during the summer months. Just curious, Thanks

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Actually we found a diver who came out on Pickwick and I suspect you can get one where you are. Not needed often but still nice to do.

It's done by a diver using soft brushes if you have it done frequent enough, not scraping. In South Florida every three to four weeks depending on time of year. This winter we continued at 3 weeks rather than changing to 4. Divers also check anodes and clean metal, which in our case also has a coating on it.

Thanks BandB. Do they normally charge per foot or per hour. I would imagine hourly at least the first time, not knowing how bad it may be. Can you tell me how much is customary in your area. I had it hauled in the spring of 2017 for new bottom paint but nothing since then. I am sure it will be a while to clean it underwater. Thanks

In SW Florida scrubbing the bottom, cleaning running gear, and checking anodes runs $2 a foot for my 45' boat with a monthly contract. Beyond a certain size, the rate either changes or they add in the beam as surface area of a boat bottom grows much faster than length. Some divers such as the one I use in Maryland, charge an hourly rate.

Ted

hjorgan said:

Reminds me of a guy wrapping dock pilings in our neighborhood. Charged 100 bucks or so per piling. But he only wrapped the top part. Not all the way to the sea floor. And you are supposed to pressure-wash a few inches below the sea floor. I have wrapped our pilings correctly, and when I heard he finished in 1 day I was skeptical. Dove a neighbor's dock and sure nuff, 2 - 3 feet of bare piling. Not very effective. And... his cell phone apparently doesn't work.

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Hjorgan,
Wow, that's brutal! I've been paying $35 per piling and the guy goes down to the sea bed. It's not horribly hard to just do it yourself.

O C Diver said:

In SW Florida scrubbing the bottom, cleaning running gear, and checking anodes runs $2 a foot for my 45' boat with a monthly contract. Beyond a certain size, the rate either changes or they add in the beam as surface area of a boat bottom grows much faster than length. Some divers such as the one I use in Maryland, charge an hourly rate.

Ted

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Ted,

Don't let your guys come up here a talk to my divers. I'm paying $50 for a 40ft boat and includes all of the above. I do it monthly this time of year and every two weeks in the summer. Florida is BRUTAL on bottoms.

I didn't mean to take the conversation away from the original posting but after I read the original posting I realized I needed to find out more about frequency, cost, etc. I am not sure we have anyone in our area that performs that service, but I need to search. I was thinking of hauling out for cleaning and inspection, but I knew that would be expensive. Thanks for the responses.

Seevee said:

Ted,

Don't let your guys come up here a talk to my divers. I'm paying $50 for a 40ft boat and includes all of the above. I do it monthly this time of year and every two weeks in the summer. Florida is BRUTAL on bottoms.

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That's a great price, but then you have a lot less hull surface. The other factor is that I'm in a brackish closer to freshwater area, up the Caloosahatchee river, so it shouldn't foul as quickly. Guess it's the curse of being in a yacht club with boats up to 100'.

Ted

If I understand O C Diver's post, the cleaner the water the longer period between cleanings. What frequency would be needed or recommended for the Cumberland River, in your opinion?

The rate varies quite a bit in our area. Higher end is 2 bucks per foot, but 1.5 is available. As noted, results can vary. If you haven’t done it, try it. It’s hard work, especially in the winter when our water is upper 50s. These these guys bust their A@#, and the good ones should be treated well.

$2 is about average here but much depends on size of boat, frequency, and any other circumstances. Based on volume, we do have negotiated rates.

On the Cumberland, I would think 2 to 3 times a year probably but would have to see how it went to be sure. Your growth there would be very different than in salt water and somewhat determined by the mineral content of the water. It might not impede performance as much but if not cleaned can be more difficult to remove the color of the growth. On our lake in NC we had a very high mineral content as the river flowed out of the mountains. Boats there were actually removed from the water for bottom cleaning and often required acid to get clean. Talk to some people at your marina.

Bare Necessities said:

If I understand O C Diver's post, the cleaner the water the longer period between cleanings. What frequency would be needed or recommended for the Cumberland River, in your opinion?

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A lot will be dependent on bottom paint, amount of use and speed you travel. In 2017 I did the Great Loop and was in freshwater from early May to beginning of October. Only cleaned the bottom once (light growth) but was moving at least every other day. Less use and tired bottom paint may require more frequency.

Ted

O C Diver said:

A lot will be dependent on bottom paint, amount of use and speed you travel. In 2017 I did the Great Loop and was in freshwater from early May to beginning of October. Only cleaned the bottom once (light growth) but was moving at least every other day. Less use and tired bottom paint may require more frequency.

Ted

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We started a Loop on May 8, 2018 from just south of Annapolis. The boat had bottom paint one month earlier. We just yesterday had the boat hauled for some work in Fort Myers Beach. The bottom was so clean that pressure washing was nowhere close to being necessary. There was not a simgle barnacle to be found. The shafts and props had been painted but it has worn away. Anodes being changed but they could have lasted till we return home in May. Fresh water helped along with movement but since we exited Mobile Bay into salt water our daily movements have not been as many as in earlier months.