Inverter and/or Generator for Great Loop?

When searching for a 38' - 40' trawler-style boat to do the America's Great Loop on, how important is a DC-to-AC power inverter and/or generator/genset? This question assumes you will be spending more nights at anchor (not connected to shore power) than at a marina dock (connected to shore power). It also assumes you will need to operate some AC powered small appliances/devices (e.g., electric stove/oven, microwave oven, CPAP machine, etc.) While anchored.

Do YF members who have done the Great Loop feel that either an inverter or a generator are "required" pieces of equipment, or simply "nice to have?" If you puchased/owned a boat without an inverter or generator, would you pay to retrofit the boat with either an inverter and/or generator before leaving to do the Great Loop? If so, can anyone suggest an average cost to budget for such retrofit items?

Is purchasing/installing a used inverter and/or used generator (in a 30+/- year old boat a good or bad idea?

Thanks.

Peace and blessings,

Larry Buchman

Doing the loop you will sooner or later be in hot humid weather. In that case I would want a generator to run the A/C at anchor. An inverter would be nice also to power some of the short term AC loads that you mention without starting the genset. But don't think you can run the stove and oven long from an inverter with a typical house battery bank. Microwave and coffee pot ok.


A CPAP machine can be run from a $50 cigarette lighter plug in inverter.


David

I don't believe you would ever be able to run a stove or an oven on an inverter. Any appliance that generates that much heat uses way more energy than a boat sized inverter can supply. I would think on a trawler of that size and wanting to stay nights on the hook you will want a generator. On our weekend 20 foot boat we have a 1500 watt inverter and it will make ~ 6 pots of coffee before we have to start the engine to recharge the 2 batteries. But like Dj said I would have and plan to have(it came on the tug) an inverter on our Looper even though it has a 4kw genset.

Thank you -- those were all good feedback comments.

Peace and blessings,

Larry

Thank you; your response confirms my initial thoughts exactly.

Peace and blessings,

Larry

I have a 38 that I have traveled on extensively, although not the GL. I have a 5kW gennie and 1000W inverter. I find it to be a good combo. Fridge, phone chargers, laptop, coffee maker all run on the inverter when main engine is running, gennie need not run. At night on anchor gennie does the heat and AC and water heater. Comfy. If needing AC, we only need to run the gennie a few hours to cool and dry out the boat, then can shut it down at bed time. If needing heat, it runs all night.

If looking at a 30yr old boat, some will have replaced the gennie by then. Gennies don't live as long as main engines, so once they turn into problems many owners just replace them. That is a big plus in your search. Nothing sucks like having a gennie poop 500nm into a trip.

Your explanation of the dual/split role and use of the inverter versus the gender while underway and on the hook at night was particularly useful and insightful. Thank you very much.

Peace and blessings,

Larry

I did the Loop without an Inverter, Have a big one on my present boat but rarely use it.Nice to have but not a deal breaker.I do like to have a Radar though.

Your decision will be driven by AC and method of cooking. If you have an electric stove, you will need a generator. There are lots of places along the canals that don't have power (or adequate power) and if you anchor out, you need a gen set to eat.
Many feel they don't need AC particularly in the Great Lakes until they run 6-8 hrs/day and each evening discover those diesels are huge heat sinks that keep heating the boat each evening. Anchored, one can usually get a cooling breeze, but in marinas and tied to lock walls, not so much.
My preference for looping would be a generator sized to drive all AC units (& stove if electric) simultaneously, but not oversized. Most feel it's better to maximally load the generator and manage power consumption if necessary than to have a huge generator loafing along. If you are cruising most days, there will be lots of hot water from the engine(s) heat exchanger loop. Most evenings we ran the gen to cool the boat, cook dinner etc. for 1-2 hrs. never overnight. The only downside to not having an inverter is we were hesitant to start the generator in the morning for coffee in crowded anchorages as a courtesy to fellow boaters (so now we have both).
If you have propane cooking, an inverter and decent sized house bank will work well - just have to plug in if you need/want AC. If you are looking at older trawlers, most are either set up for generator/plug in use, or they have propane, inverters and house banks. Enjoy your loop.

Most of the loop is inland with some time spent on big lakes.

The lake & river water is usually cool so a fan instead of conditioned air will frequently do fine for sleeping..

A 1500w-1750w truck stop inverter will do a coffee maker or microwave , easy and cheap enough to install.

As always the hard question is refrigeration. (4) 6v golf carts will usually keep even a house fridge on a truck stop inverter overnight .

The smallest boat you can be comfortable aboard will have the least financial exposure and be the easiest to maintain.

If the boat is just for the loop a trailerable 25-28 ft I-O would be $5,000 - $10,000 , easy to find and easy to sell.
If this is a first boat , or a temporary boat , a large expense is not necessary.

Thanks; I''ll certainly keep your comments in mind as I search for, purchase, and retrofit my "Looper" boat.
Peace and blessings,
Larry

Boilermaker75 said:

When searching for a 38' - 40' trawler-style boat to do the America's Great Loop on, how important is a DC-to-AC power inverter and/or generator/genset? This question assumes you will be spending more nights at anchor (not connected to shore power) than at a marina dock (connected to shore power). It also assumes you will need to operate some AC powered small appliances/devices (e.g., electric stove/oven, microwave oven, CPAP machine, etc.) While anchored.

Do YF members who have done the Great Loop feel that either an inverter or a generator are "required" pieces of equipment, or simply "nice to have?" If you puchased/owned a boat without an inverter or generator, would you pay to retrofit the boat with either an inverter and/or generator before leaving to do the Great Loop? If so, can anyone suggest an average cost to budget for such retrofit items?

Is purchasing/installing a used inverter and/or used generator (in a 30+/- year old boat a good or bad idea?

Thanks.

Peace and blessings,

Larry Buchman

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Am 4,000 miles into the Loop. Opinion - inverter and generator absolutely required. In fact, we have two generators aboard. Came with the boat.

Having both an inverter and generator was important to us on the half-loop we did last summer/fall. I agree with most of the comments above. The usefulness of the inverter will be driven by the size of your house bank and the loads you put on it. We have a ~1250 AH bank and—using the microwave, water pump, commodes, lights, fans, etc at a typical overnight anchorage—we never dropped below an 86 percent state of charge. We only used the genset to run the A/C—and that was not very often. Had we been farther south, we’d have doubtless run it a lot more.

FF, thanks for your response and observations. I understand the "as small as you're comfortable in" concept, but can't imagine months of "living aboard" the FourWinns 245 Vista Cruiser I owned several years ago, or any of the 29' - 39' "club" cruising sailboats I've been sailing on Lake Michigan, off Chicago, for the past 5 - 6 years.

I could see being comfortable for months at a time on a 32' - 35' trawler, but if I can find a 36' - 39' boat for the same price, with a 14' beam instead of a 12' beam, why wouldn't I want to get as much boat as I can for the money?

Peace and blessings,

Larry

Thank you for your reply, CatalinaJack. The consensus seems to be that an inverter and gender would both be very desirable to have on a long cruise.

I'd love to hear more about your GL trip experience. Where did you start? Are you doing the entire 6,000 route in one stretch, or breaking it up into multiple segments? What distance do you typically cover each day? Do you stay in marinas or on the hook?

Peace and blessings,

Larry

Angus99, your comments about your limited use of the inverter and genset were very helpful; now I also understand having a sufficiently-sized house bank of batteries to power the inverter is also very important -- I'll be sure to pay more attention to the house bank capacity as I continue to search for a boat.
Peace and blessings,
Larry

Having a big house battery bank is useful, but not that necessary, especially if you are often on the move. Just want to size it to run the fridge for like 12hr minimum. Can always run the gen some to charge.

Boilermaker75 said:

FF, thanks for your response and observations. I understand the "as small as you're comfortable in" concept, but can't imagine months of "living aboard" the FourWinns 245 Vista Cruiser I owned several years ago, or any of the 29' - 39' "club" cruising sailboats I've been sailing on Lake Michigan, off Chicago, for the past 5 - 6 years.

I could see being comfortable for months at a time on a 32' - 35' trawler, but if I can find a 36' - 39' boat for the same price, with a 14' beam instead of a 12' beam, why wouldn't I want to get as much boat as I can for the money?

Peace and blessings,

Larry

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One consideration for the size of your future looper boat would be the size of your crew. If you are single handling you may consider a smaller boat, but only you know your crew and capabilities. You are in the right place to find the answers, I know we learned a lot from the people on this forum before we made the big purchase.

Regarding size of boat, I would shop for something 35-40. There are smaller boats out there that can do the job, but it gets tight space wise. And once you add in the hardware that makes cruising nice (diesel engine, AC's, gen, batts, water heater, bunks, shower, head, etc, etc), it pretty much is the same equipment whether a 28 or a 38. End up trying to put 10lb of poop in a 5lb sack. Also find that the smaller boats tend to be more sensitive to minor seas. And hull speed is slower.

Our 38 is light and skinny (just under 12' beam) but it is comfortable for three people. Really comfortable for two. Four souls and people are stepping on each other.

Much above 40 and the size and draw (air and water) can become hindrances, and maybe a little hard to single hand.

Figure out your crew size and don't go too small or too big.

You can do the loop old school with an 150 quart Igloo cooler and bags of ice along the way. Propane or alcohol stove. The engine alternator can charge batteries along the way. You can buy things for the boat that are 12 VDC. You can run an inverter pretty much any time while the main engine is running, UNTIL you want to hang on the anchor or a mooring ball a couple days or want air conditioning away from shore power. Then you will want a genny.
With the genny, you have redundancy in power supplies. If the genny breaks down, then you still have the inverter and main engine. If the inverter fails, you still have the 12 VDC powered stuff. If the refer breaks down, ice blocks in the cooler. If the house bank of batteries run down dead, (and it will at least once) start the genny from it's own battery and charge everything back up. Funny thing those inverters. They always find a way to get left on when they're not supposed to and you get a BEEP!!! I'm dead alarm.

I've woke up to that "death beep" a couple of times!!

Ski, I'll have to check the power requirements of the fridge/freezer and size the house bank accordingly, so it doesn't go below 80% +/- every night. Thanks for your reply.
Peace and blessings,
Larry

Boilermaker75 said:

Thank you for your reply, CatalinaJack. The consensus seems to be that an inverter and gender would both be very desirable to have on a long cruise.

I'd love to hear more about your GL trip experience. Where did you start? Are you doing the entire 6,000 route in one stretch, or breaking it up into multiple segments? What distance do you typically cover each day? Do you stay in marinas or on the hook?

Peace and blessings,

Larry

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Take a look at our blog at catalinajack.com.

I would not consider the loop without a generator. You will encounter wide variations of weather from extreme heat to cold. I would want some form of A/C with reverse system for heat. Not enough cold to require a heating system like you'd want in the PNW or spending the winter in the NE.

You can do the loop in a pleasure boat with adequate refrigeration, power to support cooking, hot water for showers, entertainment, or you can do it in a camper without any amenities. Very few of us here are likely to enjoy camping out for a year. Most are going to want comfort as they cruise.

With a generator, inverter is optional but still preferred by most.

I have both generators and inverters. The inverter allows me to run AC items while the mains are running w/o running a generator. The mains have a dedicated alternator for the house banks. I decided I wanted to anchor for 2-3 days w/o running a generator and expanded my banks. Now I make water every 2-3 days and run a generator then. I stay out of hot climates, so rarely run AC. I have a diesel stove or induction when it's too warm.
For hot engines in tropical climates, you can cool them down after shutdown with some valving and pumps. I did in the past.

Boilermaker75 said:

....but if I can find a 36' - 39' boat for the same price, with a 14' beam instead of a 12' beam, why wouldn't I want to get as much boat as I can for the money?.......

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Basic economics. Boat size and price are directly correlated, but only part of the pricing equation. If you find a 35 footer and a 40 footer for the same price, the 40 footer will have some other flaw to compensate. Less amenities, older electronics, older engines ect. There is no free lunch.

Okay, lets talk about solar panels now. Who has them and does anyone want them?

I did the loop in 2017. Some observations:
Most people at some point will want air conditioning while underway.
Depending on schedule most will want heat at some times while underway.
Most will need a generator to do the above.
While a generator can power anything an inverter can, here is a partial list of thing a good 2800 watt pure sine wave inverter can power.
Appartment refrigerator (I have one)
Microwave
Electric stove / oven (most are 120 VAC <20 amps intermittent).
Crockpot
Rice cooker
Bread maker
Ice maker
Convection oven
Fry pan
Toaster
Coffee maker
Electric kettle
TV
Desk top computer
Hair dryer
Curling iron
Electric blanket (great for cool nights)
Cpap machine
Recharge anything with a small battery charger
Recharge bow thruster batteries
Run a Splendide washing machine / dryer
An air conditioner
A heater
A water heater
Most any 120 VAC power tool
And that's just off the top of my head

While my generator was essential for the loop, I probably put 25 hours on the inverter for every 1 on the generator. Inverters aren't a free source of power. You need to be able to make the power you want to consume. Want to run the stove consuming 15 amps 120 VAC while underway, you will need to produce more than 150 amps 12 VDC. Planning on using your inverter like this may require a upgrading the engine alternator. If you want to use the inverter while at anchor in the evening, through the night, and for morning coffee, you may need to upsize your house bank.

Ted

Capitaine R said:

Okay, lets talk about solar panels now. Who has them and does anyone want them?

Click to expand...

Lots of info on solar panels here. Search for recent discussions using the link in my post for more info. There's always room for a new thread on the topic if needed...

Thanks, Ted (O C Driver), for your reply and list of items to potentially/possibly use an inverter to power (assuming a sufficiently-sized house bank).
Peace and blessings,
Larry