Anchor rode rope chain versus all chain

What are your thoughts? We currently have 35' of chain then rope. Like my last boat with the same, every now and then, the windless gets hung up on the transition point where its spliced.. We are leaving on an extended cruise in Sept to FL and the Bahamas. Knowing the rope/chain has issues, you can always cut free if needed! I am considering going all chain..... Your thoughts please?

If the combination rode has worked well, I’d stick with it.
- have someone at the bow when raising or lowering the anchor and it should be easy to nudge the splice over the windlass.
- Chain is a lot heavier than rope, could change your trim
- Chain is expensive, the rope is already there.
- With a combo rode, you don’t need a snubber or bridle

I’ve used both and have all chain on my current boat, but I really like a combo rode and it has some advantages.

If you anchor near coral heads (like some places in the Bahamas) rope cuts very easily on sharp coral. Chain has significant dampening effect for sailing at anchor. A racing sailboat has a reason to use rope, otherwise I prefer chain.

I know some people don't like no chain, but I have no chain, just rope. Not noticed any problems yet. We anchored in a thunderstorm and it held ok with very gusty winds.

Boat came that way when we got it. I have noticed some of the line closer to the anchor is wearing more the the rest of the line which looks new. Line is 3/4 inch nylon 3 strand twist. Way back down the line, a part that almost never gets used, prior owner spliced on 5/8 line.

soggy,
You’re good to go but if you want better catenary keep the same lenth of chain and use a size larger (heavier).
No point in chain close to the boat.

sdowney 717,
A bit of chain close to the anchor will do quite well at holding the anchor shank down. W/O coral chain is mostly to aid setting of the anchor.

I’ve always been for mostly line rodes but I’ve never anchored w no chain at all.

As you go up in boat size at some point all chain has very high utility. A winch w a wildcat for one size chain. Up - down. It’s simple.

But for really good performance nylon line is king.

soggy said:

What are your thoughts? We currently have 35' of chain then rope. Like my last boat with the same, every now and then, the windless gets hung up on the transition point where its spliced.. We are leaving on an extended cruise in Sept to FL and the Bahamas. Knowing the rope/chain has issues, you can always cut free if needed! I am considering going all chain..... Your thoughts please?

Click to expand...

We had switched from all chain to a combo with 50 feet of chain. The main reason was that part of the chain was deteriorating and needed replacement. Two factors I like with the combo over all chain is 1. Less weight and 2. No need for a snubber. There is a long thread of discussion on this if you can find it.

Enjoy! Dave

soggy
Here's another suggestion, for what it's worth, that I followed on my last boat:

How far back is your windlass from the end of your anchor when stowed? You may consider removing the 35' of chain and replacing it with 3' of very heavy - perhaps 1/2" stud link or even 3/4" chain.

This leader will keep the pull on the anchor nearly horizontal.

Then wrap canvas or other abrasion-resistant material around the first couple of feet of nylon to protect it when sitting on the bottom and rubbing against sand/rocks.

Also ensure you are satisfied with the weight of your anchor and perhaps up that a couple of sizes more.

I found this to be a high performance anchoring solution that was light weight as well. The only thing I did differently for my situation was to switch to poly instead of nylon in order to float the line off the bottom. The limestone outcroppings here are like anchoring in coral.

Soggy, what brand and size of windlass?

As boat size increases so does the desire and/or need for all chain. Once approaching 50' and over 50,000 lbs all chain is commonly used with a good heavy duty windlass.

Anchor rode

We have all chain on both anchors but thinking about changing one to chain and rope as our windlass will handle either.

soggy said:

Your thoughts please?

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What is the displacement of your boat? On a small boat all chain is foolish. On a large boat anything but all chain is foolish. In the middle lies the rub.

All chain is common around here, my boat came so equipped, though given a choice I would have opted for line and chain, but this works and as Eric suggests it certainly gives the anchor a better shot at good purchase on the bottom. I thought about going to line and chain but the setup on the boat would require changing out the thru deck fittings to accommodate a shackle going thru where there is none now with all chain. Oh well, it works fine and there also came with the boat a nice long pc of line to shackle into the end of the chain should anchoring deep become necessary which so far it has not.

Anybody who is anchored for any length of time knows the value of all chain. Certainly there is very little downside

All chain on my boat, and I sleep well at night on the hook. Another compromise might be to have enough chain for normal anchoring and a couple hundred feet of rope above it. You get all the advantages of chain for shallow anchoring in the Bahamas, and an appropriate length in total should you need it.

Ted

O C Diver said:

All chain on my boat, and I sleep well at night on the hook. Another compromise might be to have enough chain for normal anchoring and a couple hundred feet of rope above it. You get all the advantages of chain for shallow anchoring in the Bahamas, and an appropriate length in total should you need it.

Ted

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Exactly.... Keep what YOU think you need, not what most others do.

I am always pondering the right combo.

Soggy, I've got all chain and very happy with it. you mention the ability to cut free; a common practice (and what I have) with an all chain rode is that just the last few feet it changes to nylon, just enough to reach out of the chain locker. This way in an emergency where it is all let out, you can quickly cut it free with a knife.
From most of the more experienced captains i've always heard you never want a chain bolted or fastened to the chain locker without a way to quickly cut it free.

O C Diver said:

...Another compromise might be to have enough chain for normal anchoring and a couple hundred feet of rope above it. You get all the advantages of chain for shallow anchoring in the Bahamas, and an appropriate length in total should you need it.

Ted

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This is how I set up FlyWright with 120 ft of 5/16 chain and 240 ft of 5/8 Brait followed by 100 ft of 3/8 floating poly in case I need to abandon the anchor quickly. The poly is not for anchoring, just for retrieval of the separated anchor/rode.

Most of my fishing anchoring is in 35 ft or less so I only the chain portion.
When anchoring in rough conditions or deeper water, I have another 240 ft of quality rode for the purpose.

The Brait-chain splice passes through the gypsy so my anchoring normally is just a single-finger deploy/retrieve from the lower helm unless I'm using a snubber.

You are never too old to learn something! After 38 years as a licensed master this is the first time I heard about the 100' of floating poly. Sure beats the hell out of trying to tie on a fender when the fan is slinging doo doo!

Tingum said:

You are never too old to learn something! After 38 years as a licensed master this is the first time I heard about the 100' of floating poly. Sure beats the hell out of trying to tie on a fender when the fan is slinging doo doo!

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Only down side to 3/8" poly is that it will probably get pulled down by any amount of current. Not enough buoyancy to overcome the drag value of the line.

Ted

Ted....have seen some ghost crab pot lines without flots holding their own in a current... not sure what the right combo would be but I am betting my 50 feet will have a trace if anchored in 10 feet of water...if not come back at slack.


to all....I am continually amazed at the lack of cross pollination between the commercial world and recreational skipper experiences. Sure there is plenty that there is no real overlap, but for some things there are.


Its the way one looks at the world...only from one's shoes or through open eyes yearning to learn all.....

How about tying the trip line back to the chain so that it will be underwater when anchored but be long enough to get back to the boat when retrieving? Leave just a few feet of slack between it and the anchor so it doesn't pull on the anchor even during shifts.

I tied a short ,5 foot of polly line with a small styrofoam float to the roll bar of my anchor. I figure if I ever lose the anchor I need to dive on it I have a chance of seeing a small float 5 foot above the bottom then I do an anchor completely burried. And it causes no problems handling the anchor and chain

motion30 said:

Anybody who is anchored for any length of time knows the value of all chain. Certainly there is very little downside

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Chain benefits are well known.
But with all chain much of the rode’s weight is not properly utilized. For openers the chain in your chain locker is not adding any catenary benefit at all. And the chain three feet down from the bow roller adds some benefit but it’s so small it’s not worth mentioning. However the chain weight 15’ up the rode from the anchor has great benefit to the catenary.

So a combination rode (of the same weight as the all chain rode) will have much better catenary and allow your anchor (a Mantus as I recall) to perform better.

“All chain” has a nice ring to it and lots of the old salts claim it to be best ... but it’s not from a performance standpoint.

Guessing anchoring tackle performance is like guessing weather 14 days out....maybe a clue, maybe not.

You set your self up with the best rig for the situation based on guessed bottom makeup, worst weather expected, and actual hook...then all the artsy craftsy stuff people like...like bloodied feathers, chicken bones and incense.

Other than seeing or diving on your anchor...it's a crap shoot at best you haven't hit the 1 in 100 or 1000 that you are poorly hooked when all should be OK.

Saying all chain, all nylon or some combo is a better solution than another is probably insignificant to the actual bottom and hooking situation....

psneeld said:

Ted....have seen some ghost crab pot lines without flots holding their own in a current... not sure what the right combo would be but I am betting my 50 feet will have a trace if anchored in 10 feet of water...if not come back at slack.


to all....I am continually amazed at the lack of cross pollination between the commercial world and recreational skipper experiences. Sure there is plenty that there is no real overlap, but for some things there are.


Its the way one looks at the world...only from one's shoes or through open eyes yearning to learn all.....

Click to expand...

5 :1 in 10' of water, sure. 3:1 in 100', probably not. Cumulative drag factor is very impressive.

Ted

Nomad Willy said:

So a combination rode (of the same weight as the all chain rode) will have much better catenary

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Better, or only negligibly worse? I can't see the catenary effect being better by virtue of rope replacing chain.

Nomad Willy said:

Chain benefits are well known.
But with all chain much of the rode’s weight is not properly utilized. For openers the chain in your chain locker is not adding any catenary benefit at all. And the chain three feet down from the bow roller adds some benefit but it’s so small it’s not worth mentioning. However the chain weight 15’ up the rode from the anchor has great benefit to the catenary.

So a combination rode (of the same weight as the all chain rode) will have much better catenary and allow your anchor (a Mantus as I recall) to perform better.

“All chain” has a nice ring to it and lots of the old salts claim it to be best ... but it’s not from a performance standpoint.

Click to expand...

I see what you were saying and I cannot disagree with anything you said...one other point... I was anchored in Key West this past winter and there were at least two separate incidents were a boat came by and cut the road of an anchored boat. I think both times it was no one aboard the anchored boat. I'm sure if they had all chain rode certainly would not have gotten cut. Probably a very small benefit
good memory by the way and yes I have a mantus

Nomad Willy said:

Chain benefits are well known.

But with all chain much of the rode’s weight is not properly utilized. For openers the chain in your chain locker is not adding any catenary benefit at all. And the chain three feet down from the bow roller adds some benefit but it’s so small it’s not worth mentioning. However the chain weight 15’ up the rode from the anchor has great benefit to the catenary.



So a combination rode (of the same weight as the all chain rode) will have much better catenary and allow your anchor (a Mantus as I recall) to perform better.



“All chain” has a nice ring to it and lots of the old salts claim it to be best ... but it’s not from a performance standpoint.

Click to expand...

There are other factors though as well. All chain is very convenient with a windlass.

My last sailboat had 90’ of chain followed by 200’ of nylon. It worked great and the windlass was setup for a combo road. My current boat came with 300’ of chain and the windlass is setup for that.

If I was to start from scratch, I think I would probably look at a similar setup as I had before, 100’ of chain then nylon. However, I would need a windlass that was convenient for using a combined rode. My current horizontal windlass isn’t with a gypsy on one side and a drum on the other.

So while I think that a combo rode has a lots of advantages, they are significantly outweighed by the advantage of an installed system that works well and is paid for.

Addendum: Even though I have to anchor in deeper water at times, most of the time it is shallow. The last lunch hook I was 15’ from anchor roller to bottom at low tide and 25’ by the time we left. I put out 75’ of chain.

Last month anchored over night, the depth range (anchor roller to bottom) was 15’-20’. I put out about 75’ of chain again. Current reversed reverses 180 at this anchorage and the wind was reasonably light. The water there is unusually clear for Puget Sound. I got up in the morning at low tide and was sipping my coffee in the aft cockpit and looked down at the bottom. I was surprised to see an anchor on the bottom about 5’ off my stern quarter. Took a moment to realize it was MY anchor. It was set well, but at that point I was just floating “anchored” by chain. It was lying straight but folded back on itself. My point is in that situation it would have been better to have 30’ of chain and then nylon rather than have the chain scour the bottom eel grass.

It's interesting that I've observed a lot of the Asian fleets (northern China fishing fleet, Vietnam charter fleets) in the 70-150ft range using polypropylene. Even the boat build that was submitted to me for a heavy 83 ton boat was spec'd:

• Captive reel winch on deck
• Heavy anchor oversized one-size per Class rules (140kg = 310lb Northill style)
• 10m (33ft) of heavy stud link leader (12mm = 1/2")
• 1" diameter polypropylene floating rode

Now I'm not promoting PP as the best rode except in specialized cases (I used it in Qatar for a specific reason), but these hundreds and hundreds of large boats/small ships all are equipped this way.

The best I can figure is that: the boats are always crewed, anchoring is short term, they are anchored for short scope performance so floating rode is not really a negative, floating rode keeps it off the bottom (same reason I used it).

Perhaps someone here has knowledge of this practice and can offer better insight.

Mako,
Always interesting to hear about your far away places and things that tend to different variables than mine or the rest of the fleet. Thanks

Dave,
You’ve got me laughing bout your morning on deck. HaHa
Yes if I had it to do over I’d have 150’ of light for my boat chain (1/4”) and 3-400’ of 9l16” nylon.
You said “There are other factors though as well.” You said “ All chain is very convenient with a windlass.” .... very very true. Close to many of rodes on TF are all chain for that reason IMO
But lifting a chained bigger is better anchor may be more than most can handle. Ranger 42 likes a rode and anchor that he can pull by hand.


Motion,
Why on earth did they cut the rode?
That’s really awful!
How’s you’re big “M” doing by the way? Shank not bent? They look like they could easily bend. Probably made out of titanium haha.