The First Glass Boats

Shared on the PsssageMaker Facebook page this morning.

https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=489313454775023&id=100865096953196&_rdr

Love the guys wearing jackets and ties laying the fiberglass...

Thatnis how I dress to work on my boat, doesn’t everybody dress like that?

Comodave said:

Thatnis how I dress to work on my boat, doesn’t everybody dress like that?

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Me, too. Only fitting - my bride wears chiffon cocktail dresses and heels when she does house cleaning.

I find this subject fascinating. I'd love to find a more in depth video.

kchace said:

I find this subject fascinating. I'd love to find a more in depth video.

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After seeing this yesterday I did a quick Google of fiberglass. One of the things I found that, while they had been trying to work out how to do it, the answer was discovered by accident. Someone was pouring liquid glass and it was hit by a blast of compressed air by mistake and... surprise, glass fibers were the result!

Greetings,
Mr.m. Interesting about the FG. I hadn't heard that BUT the question STILL remains...Who discovered how to make glass? Not talking about terrestrial glass (volcanic/lightening fused) or extra terrestrial glass (meteorites) but man made.


Edit: Regarding the clothing in the OP...It was filmed in England in the 40's/50's. Not uncommon for even tradesmen to wear a jacket and tie in pursuit of their livelihood. Prim and proper British.

I remember in the early 50’s an add by “Beetle Boats”.
They were heavy and crude. But they kept at it.

Edit: Regarding the clothing in the OP...It was filmed in England in the 40's/50's. Not uncommon for even tradesmen to wear a jacket and tie in pursuit of their livelihood. Prim and proper British.[/QUOTE]


My Uncle, a farmer in Ireland wore a suit every day. Pictures my mother has of her childhood show her father wearing at least what looks like a dress shirt and vest in most shots.

They, mom, Uncle Jimmy and four other sisters grew up on a farm with no electricity or running water and cooked on an open fire.

Rob

Dare to Dream.

Can you imagine how much negative pressure they got from some traditionalists?

RT Firefly said:

Greetings,
Mr.m. Interesting about the FG. I hadn't heard that BUT the question STILL remains...Who discovered how to make glass? Not talking about terrestrial glass (volcanic/lightening fused) or extra terrestrial glass (meteorites) but man made.


Edit: Regarding the clothing in the OP...It was filmed in England in the 40's/50's. Not uncommon for even tradesmen to wear a jacket and tie in pursuit of their livelihood. Prim and proper British.

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I spent a good amount of time in the Middle East and distinctly remember seeing glass pieces made 3,000 year ago. Remember them because I was surprised the process was that old. I think glass blowing is much newer but still an ancient art (quick Google shows somewhere around 100 BC) and some still make a living at it today. Go figure.

MurrayM said:

Dare to Dream.

Can you imagine how much negative pressure they got from some traditionalists?

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Yes, and that pressure lasted a long time. Higher end boat builders refused to use it until it was very well proven. I also understand that when larger boats began to be built with FG the hulls were massively overbuilt.

That’s one reason there are so many old Hatteras’s out there: they were built like battleships until they learned how to use the minimum amount of fiber and resin instead of the maximum.

Bet he itched some!

Watching the video, I was struck by the lack of any at all PPE, no gloves, no safety glasses, no coveralls. no face mask. Bet those guys itched a little! Wonder what the follow on medical history was, I suspect perhaps some lung issues.
By the way, a good book on the early days of fiberglas boat building is "Heart of Glass" that traces some of the early FG boat builders in the US from the early '60's.
Merry Christmas everybody!!

MurrayM said:

Dare to Dream.

Can you imagine how much negative pressure they got from some traditionalists?

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That hasn’t even died yet. If I was having a new boat built now I’d opt for wood. There’s many advantages for either material.

The first really big advantage was that FG boats could easily be built in shapes that would require a very high level of craftsmanship. Many such shapes were just not built in wood for that reason. But other shapes like a sharp edge between the transom and the bottom (that reduced drag) was easily done in wood but most all production FG boats were limited to about 1/4 to 3/8” radius.

But of course the big reduction in labor was the controling factor in what material would survive in the marketplace. That made the FG boats appear cheap. But Riva eventially went FG much to my astonishment. The concept that wood rotted (imagine that) took over and almost nobody wanted a wood boat after that. There are hundreds of comments on this forum to that end.

Well, I don’t own any wood boats now but it has nothing to do w rot. I choose one 18’ FG boat (Winner) over all the others because it didn’t have wood stringers. Had the boat for over 20 yrs. The bottom is stiffened and supported by a FG insert that looks much like an egg carton. And laminated to the inside of the bottom. Design over the low labor wood (in this case) saved many owners in years to come of the huge job of replacing the wood stringers. Haha my plywood floor is soft in quite a few small places where screws were used to fasten things like seats. But the floor is easy to replace compared to stringers.

A new or fairly new wood boat is wonderful but old ones are mostly to stay clear of unless one is really motivated. Re the wood boat thing something to think about is that wood boats (especially planked ones) are made of many many pieces of wood and most are somewhat easy to replace like a muffler on a car. Gotta do it though when it comes time. And then there’s fasteners .....

Exctyengr,
When I worked at Uniflite in the shop (70’s) we all washed in a huge tub of acetone about 3” deep. With our bare hands.

[Mr.m. Interesting about the FG. I hadn't heard that BUT the question STILL remains...Who discovered how to make glass? Not talking about terrestrial glass (volcanic/lightening fused) or extra terrestrial glass (meteorites) but man made]

RT, perhaps you can make a pilgrimage of sorts to the Corning Museum of Glass, oddly enough in Corning, NY. Well worth the visit and be prepared to be blown away! There’s something for everybody, but the permanent exhibit on the history of glass is utterly incredible. It starts with 4K year old middle eastern stuff but by Greek and Roman times, the objects are as beautiful and technically perfect as anything you could imagine. (There is also an exhibit of stuff made with natural glass.) You’ll be brain dead by the time you make it into the late 19th c.

And then, pop over to the Glenn Curtiss Museum in Hammondsport, NY.

DHeckrotte said:

[Mr.m. Interesting about the FG. I hadn't heard that BUT the question STILL remains...Who discovered how to make glass? Not talking about terrestrial glass (volcanic/lightening fused) or extra terrestrial glass (meteorites) but man made]

RT, perhaps you can make a pilgrimage of sorts to the Corning Museum of Glass, oddly enough in Corning, NY. Well worth the visit and be prepared to be blown away! There’s something for everybody, but the permanent exhibit on the history of glass is utterly incredible. It starts with 4K year old middle eastern stuff but by Greek and Roman times, the objects are as beautiful and technically perfect as anything you could imagine. (There is also an exhibit of stuff made with natural glass.) You’ll be brain dead by the time you make it into the late 19th c.

And then, pop over to the Glenn Curtiss Museum in Hammondsport, NY.

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[emoji106]
[emoji106]
Both excellent.
Let me know if you are in the area...
I'll provide regreshments.
About the origins of glass... interesting that early attributions (unsubstantiated) were given to sailors
https://www.cmog.org/article/origins-glassmaking

Re first FG boats. http://www.pslc.ws/macrog/mpm/composit/fiber/fibeglas/history.htm

Also see https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&sou...BMAB6BAgTEAU&usg=AOvVaw0VTJzWxrN8ZFOD4xbU2nov

FG boats are not really glass boats.
They are plastic boats. People call them glass boats because the word plastic is ofensive. They are fibreglass reinforced plastic boats. Like reinforced concrete w rebar. But the FG boats are plastic boats.

You do realize that fiberglass is made from real glass? Calling a boat “glass” is a lot easier than saying “glass resin matrix” , I’m not sure if there is any actual plastic in a boat. Unless it’s made from an injection molded thermosetting material.........

Nomad Willy said:

Exctyengr,
When I worked at Uniflite in the shop (70’s) we all washed in a huge tub of acetone about 3” deep. With our bare hands.

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Oh Yes! Early 70's, when I worked at "Maine Coast Shipbuilding" [a "Ted Lang" operation that went belly up due to economy and other reasons; after only a few years] we used toluene to wash-up in when having resin on our unprotected hands. Luckily, I was mostly on the assembly line area where we were fastening in the interior and exterior trim work on FG boats. I don't mind working with fiberglass... but not every day, Please!!!

Nomad Willy said:

FG boats are not really glass boats.
They are plastic boats. People call them glass boats because the word plastic is ofensive. They are fibreglass reinforced plastic boats. Like reinforced concrete w rebar. But the FG boats are plastic boats.

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And people who prefer wood boats refer to fiberglass boats as "plastic" for the very same reason.

I was also fascinated by the outboard motor.

Me too Howard,
When we were going to college in the early 70’s I lived on a houseboat. As in a house on big floating logs. Was at the mouth of the Snohomish River. My friend had a 16’ cedar planked Rinell and I had a cedar planked Morris. He ran a 33hp Scott Atwatter and I had an 18hp Evinrude. Tiller skiffs. I would stand in the center of the boat holding on to a rope attached to both gunnel’s. Larry’s went so fast he had ti sit.
My days of youth were filled w old boats and cars. Nothin’s changed.

GRP , "glass reinforced plastic" seems the best description.

"I also understand that when larger boats began to be built with FG the hulls were massively overbuilt."

Yes, the early old boats thought hull thickness was the key to strength , longevity.

They were mostly correct, a 400% safety factor basically means the hull will flex very little if at all.The USCG requirement for over 6 passengers.

What they did not yet know was that a good core could make the vessel quite stiff from hull thickness with minimum weight.

When resin went from .19c a pound to about .75 , they stuck balsa in the middle to save resin cost .Only later did they find out a cored hull was superior , tho balsa is out of favor these days as its flaws are known.

Nomad Willy said:

I remember in the early 50’s an add by “Beetle Boats”.
They were heavy and crude. But they kept at it.

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Some time ago I had a Beetleroo dinghy. She was longer but Daddy cut off the transom of the sink and shortened her. That was so she would fit across our transom which was 11' . I think he took out less than a foot though I'm not certain. Then he glassed her back together.

That boat went through a lot. She and I had many adventures.

Article here: http://janice142.com/Articles/Glass-bottomDinghy.html