Anchor Chain Swivels

Changed my mind.


-- Edited by SeaHorse II on Saturday 14th of January 2012 05:43:37 PM

Marin wrote :* Australia, which is another word for "England"....

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*Now that`s hurtful!

England is cold wet miserable (with good reason) a failure at cricket and near financial ruin (like other countries we won`t mention). Australia is sunny warm smiling, the economy strong. Except it rained all morning.

Our only wildcats are domestic felines gone feral, plus reports of a panther like big cat (a zoo escape?) roaming rural areas devouring sheep.

BruceK

Hi.

Ex Pom. and Aussie.
Sailor in both, and others.

Warping drum is most used terminology for rope. and Gypsy. or chain Gypsy for such

Some winches. Horizontal. Have the usual drum and gypsy on shaft ends.
Then another warping drum on top. Driven by same gearbox. for line handling.

They are magic. Saves having warping drums all over the deck.

*

I always use swivel. Galved on my all chain primary.

Heavy duty shackles and swivel. Not a problem


-- Edited by macka17 on Saturday 14th of January 2012 06:01:13 PM

BruceK wrote:Marin wrote :* Australia, which is another word for "England"....

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*Now that`s hurtful!

England is cold wet miserable (with good reason) a failure at cricket and near financial ruin (like other countries we won`t mention). Australia is sunny warm smiling, the economy strong. Except it rained all morning.


I've been there a few times for work and have no argument at all with what you say.* I would have to give points to New Zealand for being prettier, though--- particularly the south island--- but all y'all will have to work that out between yourselves.

New Zealand has a WAY classier plane that Australia right now.* We just painted a new 777 all black in honor of New Zealand's rugby team which I understand recently won the world cup or whatever they call it in rugby.* Absolutely stunning airplane.* It's a shame they have to get it dirty by using it.

My main point was that the terms used in Australia will be more likely to follow British tradition than copy terms used in the US.


-- Edited by Marin on Saturday 14th of January 2012 06:16:30 PM

OK GOOD. Thank you Marin. But you did'nt tell the truth about the all chain rode so maybe some of the rest was out of context or somth'in. Chapman advises all chain for vessels of about 65'. For the little boats like our's Marin Chapman says nylon and a few feet of chain. However before I crow anymore I must add that my newest Chapman is a decade or two (at least) old but I do'nt see how that would make any difference except Marin would file it under R Paul. For boats under 50' Chapman does not endorse all chain. However "a smooth drum for line over a gypsy for chain" tells me they think the "chainwheel" is called a gypsy. Perhaps that's where I picked up the term gypsy for the chainwheel. But in Marin's 2nd reference they call the chainwheel/pulley a wildcat .......at least the "chain sprocket" part of it. So if one has a horizontal winch w a line handling drum on one side and a chain sprocket on the other one could say they have a winch w 2 gypsy's and be correct according to what we dug up. Personaly I do'nt care for either wildcat or gypsy. But I think gypsy or wildcat could both be correct for the chain sprocket but I'd rather find a better name for the line handling drum than warping drum. Did'nt somebody say that came from the civil war?

Eric

Okay, I took the stupid book off the shelf one more time to quote to you exactly what Chapman's had to say about the use all-chain rode. It's not much and it ignores more factors than it talks about. If you read a book far more current and comprehensive on the subject, like Earl Hinz's "The Complete Book of Anchoring and Mooring" you wil find all sorts of good reasons to use all-chain, as well as all sorts of good reasons to use a combination rode.

But since the sun rises and sets on Chapman's in your eyes, here is exactly everything it has to say about the use of all chain rode. Unedited, unaltered.

Chain. As the size of the vessel increases, so does the required diameter of a nylon anchor line. For yachts 65 feet or more, nylon would run to diameters up to 3/4 inch or larger. This approaches a size that is difficult to handle; the alternative is chain. From this it should not be inferred that chain is not also usable on smaller craft. Boats that cruise extensively and have occasion to anchor on sharp rock or coral often have chain; in some cases it is regarded as indispensable- it stands chafing where fiber lines won't.

Pretty minimal information, in my opinion, and not nearly enough to go on if one is trying to determine what the best rode for their boat in their waters might be.* Which is why I never recommend Chapmans to anyone other than a complete and total novice who is still trying to figure out the bow from the stern.

As to my other quotes from Chapmans they were neither out of context or inaccurate.* Here's the photo illustration caption in it's entirety.

On this boat the vertical windlass has a smooth drum for line over a gypsy for chain; they can be operated independently.* The anchor chain passes around the gypsy and through a deck opening to the chain locker.* The smooth drum can be used for a second anchor or for warping the vessel into a berth.


And the wildcat reference on the previous page:

The three kinds of chain most used as anchor rode are "BBB," "Proof Coil," and "High Test."* Chain is designated by the diameter of material in the link, but the links of the various types differ in length.* It is necessary to match the chain to the wildcat (a pulley designed for use with chain) of the anchor windlass; the differences in link length are slight, but enough to cause trouble if there is a mismatch.

Happy now



-- Edited by Marin on Saturday 14th of January 2012 07:49:28 PM

Happy?.......not completely as I see I've bent your beak a bit and you did'nt mention the fact that Chapman clearly states a combination rode is best. But you did quote enough that I remember the words and text. Too bad though it seemed to me the terminology issue for us is still a bit vague and I expected a decisive conclusion to the drum and wildcat thing. Not to be had on this one. I'm a bit sorry I put you through the Chapman experience only to get a grey answer. Forgive me?

Eric

nomadwilly wrote:
*Too bad though it seemed to me the terminology issue for us is still a bit vague and I expected a decisive conclusion to the drum and wildcat thing. Not to be had on this one. I'm a bit sorry I put you through the Chapman experience only to get a grey answer. Forgive me?

*

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For every statement in Chapman's (there is only one that I could find) that says a combination rode is "the ideal" (they do NOT say "best" by the way) in terms of weight and versatility, there are statements in other, more up to date books that say an all-chain rode is "the ideal" rode.* As do some anchor manufacturers.

Actually, I think they're all wrong.* The "ideal" or "best" rode is the one that best suits your boat, your rode handling equimpment, and the anchoring conditions you most commonly encounter in the waters you boat in.

What would be your idea of a decisive conclusion to the drum and wildcat thing?* There are counless references to wildcat on the internet, including the web pages of several windlass manufacturers.* There are several definitions of wndlass terms I was able to fine that make the distinction between the US term and the British term.* Even Chapman's itself uses the term wildcat in the US manner.

So it's pretty clear to me.

The "Chapman's* experience" was no real problem.* I'm been finishing a chapter in my book all day so TF and Chapmans were nice little breaks from that project.* It did remind me what a good resource Chapmans is for someone with virtually no knowledge of boating. It's just too general for the kind of information I'm usually looking for these days.* But Rick mentioned the Merchant Seaman's Manual in a post in another thread.* That's something I want to look into.

Very Shakespearian "Much ado about nothing"

Marin wrote:BruceK wrote:Marin wrote :* Australia, which is another word for "England"....

Click to expand...

*Now that`s hurtful!

England is cold wet miserable (with good reason) a failure at cricket and near financial ruin (like other countries we won`t mention). Australia is sunny warm smiling, the economy strong. Except it rained all morning.


I've been there a few times for work and have no argument at all with what you say.* I would have to give points to New Zealand for being prettier, though--- particularly the south.

New Zealand has a WAY classier plane that Australia right now.* We just painted a new 777 all black.* Absolutely stunning airplane.



-- Edited by Marin on Saturday 14th of January 2012 06:16:30 PM

*Marin,

Couldn`t agree more, NZ South Island has alpine scenery to rival anywhere, especially Milford and Doubtful sounds; flying into Queenstown from the west is amazing as you descend towards the mountains and the lake.

AirNZ was smart getting the B777 and putting "winglets'" on its 767s;Qantas stuck with 747s waiting for the 787, and bought planes starting with "A". Guess which airline still pays a shareholder dividend?

I became a fan of the 777 when Lauda began flying them to Australia;a black one must look quite sinister.

I enjoy your posts, keep it up. Bruce

Maybe if we wanted to get pedantic, and looking to the origin of the various terms, is it not the case that the original anchor retrieval system on sailing ships were vertically positioned drum-like contraptions, (I recently went over Nelson's Victory - what a blast), rotated by men walking round them pushing on long spokes projecting from them, which wound up the rope anchor warp. These were called capstans, were they not? Maybe that is why we sort of logically think of the vertical winch drums as capstans and horizontal ones as drums and gypsies...? As Benn says - much ado about not much, but it's interesting, all the same, as so many of our shipboard terms relate back to sailing ship days. By the way if you are ever near Portsmouth, England go see the Victory - it's a real experience to go on a ship which is over 250 years old and is the actual ship Nelson was killed on at the battle of Trafalgar.


-- Edited by Peter B on Sunday 15th of January 2012 05:34:50 AM

Peter, Origins of words can be interesting but the vernacular usage is most important.....I think. If civil war mariners called something a "bliner" I'd feel no compulsion to use the word now unless (at least) a majority of people were using it now. Words are for communication ..No? Correctness must even stand down for clarity of communication. Yes I'd really love to see Nelson's Victory.

Marin I'm so glad it was a good break for you. I even considered all chain myself at one point mostly for convenience. My big problem now is that the anchor line tends to ride off to port and is usually on the verge of running off the spool. "Spool" .....just thought I'd throw in a new term to add to the others. I installed a long bolt through the deck just in front of the line drum to limit the port swing of the line but that proved even worse as the line now ties itself into a knot. So at this point I'da been better off w all chain. Now I need to take the winch up, elongate the outbd holes thereby changing the angle of the winch and reinstall and rebed. PITA.*

Decision on the wildcat thing? Just call it a wildcat I guess. Can't call it a gypsy anymore as Kolstrand calls the line drum a gypsy. !?!?!? So it's a bloody wildcat. As to the drum I think I'll just call it a line drum. If the correct term is gypsy it would be confusing to many or most as so many (as I did) call the wildcat a gypsy. And about the line v/s chain........I think nylon line is best unless one has tried it and had significant problems w abrasion of the line on rocks, corral or whatever. Short heavy chain on nylon is best for me (I think) as I can easily pull up the last few feet of chain and anchor by hand. So I'd say one's boat style/boat is about 25% of the picture and bottom is 75% picture. I do need a wash down system though. I'm wondering about tapping off the sea water hose but think it may open the door to safety issues and may not have enough pressure either. So lets just keep on trawler'in.

Eric


-- Edited by nomadwilly on Sunday 15th of January 2012 09:47:12 AM

BruceK wrote:

I became a fan of the 777 when Lauda began flying them to Australia;a black one must look quite sinister.

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*Judge for yourself.* This is what it looked like when we pulled it out of the paint hangar.


-- Edited by Marin on Sunday 15th of January 2012 11:38:07 AM

Marin wrote:

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*This is what it looked like when we pulled it out of the paint hangar.

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Stunning,nothing like normal livery.Keen to spot it coming into Sydney over my suburb. BruceK

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-- Edited by Marin on Sunday 15th of January 2012 11:38:07 AM

*

Pretty obvious where the doors are.

Eric

Wow, that does look businesslike. There is something about black. I remember when Team NZ launched their Americas Cup boat in San Diego in 1995, (just to add the nautical flavour), it was called 'Black Magic', and looked just that...magic. My initial reaction was any boat that looked that good must win, and well...the rest is history...they won it...successfully defended it in 2000...pity they lost it again to Italian Ernesto Berterelli's Alinghi in 2004...still after defending it successfully in 2009, they lost it to a special challenge by Larry Ellison's BMW Oracle in 2010, using large multihulls, so now it's in San Francisco. What goes round comes round eh? But as we have discussed before, this next all catamaran regatta, (each high tech and 72 feet long), is going to be a blast.....
But yeah, that's one sleek looking 777...

Here's the whole plane as it was being towed out for a flight in Everett. As you can see, it's not quite ALL black. And Eric, the doors of every commercial jetliner, regardless of the paint scheme, have to be obvious. It's a crash-safety requirement.


-- Edited by Marin on Monday 16th of January 2012 01:13:51 PM

Marin,

Do they have black lines around the doors on white airplanes?

It's distinctive But I do'nt like it. Most old aircraft are better looking than modern ones and I think that's true of boats as well. Hard to find a better looking transport AC than the old Lockheed Constellation even w the triple vertical stabs. The DC 3, 6, and 7 were also beautiful AC. Most modern AC just look like cigars w things stuck on here and there. Actually the things stuck on are usually better looking than the old planes. But who cares ......they work well.

Eric

"Most modern AC just look like cigars w things stuck on"

Squint a bit and most modern cars look alike too.

The wind tunnel, or an advanced computer designs todays vehicles .

The sad reality of efficiency.

But Hemmings still has pages and pages of "real" cars.

34 duesenberg for mall shopping?

http://www.google.com/search?q=dues...&source=univ&sa=X&ei=k1sVT7rGC8qrsAKp0dXcAw&v

Marin wrote:
Here's the whole plane as it was being towed out for a flight in Everett. As you can see, it's not quite ALL black. And Eric, the doors of every commercial jetliner, regardless of the paint scheme, have to be obvious. It's a crash-safety requirement.

-- Edited by Marin on Monday 16th of January 2012 01:13:51 PM

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*Ah ha, it does have the silver fern on it.* When I showed the orininal pic of Marin's to my son, his reponse was, "yeah, cool, but where's the silver fern?", to which I replied, "I'll bet it's there somewhere..." It sure is - with bells on.* Silver fern on background of black is NZ's national emblem/colour for those not in the know.

Peter,

I thought it was so visually busy and broken up I did'nt like it but now that you point out that it's a "silver fern" .......makes all the difference.

Eric

nomadwilly wrote:
Marin,

Do they have black lines around the doors on white airplanes?

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*Here's shot of plane belonging to an airline we worked with a few months ago in Oslo, Noway.* This should answer your question.


-- Edited by Marin on Tuesday 17th of January 2012 03:19:48 PM

Marin wrote:nomadwilly wrote:
Marin,

Do they have black lines around the doors on white airplanes?

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*Here's shot of plane belonging to an airline we worked with a few months ago in Oslo, Noway.* This should answer your question.



-- Edited by Marin on Tuesday 17th of January 2012 03:19:48 PM

*Helps to define the doors for rescuers. I suppose.

Carey wrote:
*Helps to define the doors for rescuers. I suppose.

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*That's the whole point.* There are also defined squares and rectangles at various places on the top of the fuselage we* call "chop outs."* They are clearly marked and labeled as such.* They are places where rescuers can chop through the skin and gain easy access to the cabin without a lot of obstructing wiring and ducts in the way.

If you read "Da Book" there are even internal special locations to place a discovered bomb (if you have the balls to move it) that allow the blast to do minimum damage .