NEW Requirements for GFCI on Docks

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We have had this problem too. Our galvanic isolator has a self test for several problems, such as reverse polarity, short to ground, stray current, etc. With all breakers turned off, and the cord plugged into the pedestal and boat, I turn on the breaker at the pedestal. No problem. I then turn on the main breaker where the cord enters the boat. No problem for 20 seconds, then the pedestal breaker trips. When watching the isolator test panel you can see it going through the tests until the third or fourth test and that's when it trips. I contacted the manufacturer of the isolator and they told me the test circuit is the problem. The answer is to purchase a newer style isolator without the test circuit. I actually like the test circuit, as it has found ground fault problems at several marinas that otherwise wouldn't have been found. By the way, the isolation transformers noted in the article are very expensive.
 
When I rewired my twin 30 amp AC system a few yrs ago, I made sure it had no current leaking out onto the ground wire, no ground 'faults'. And so far has been fine. I dont have the isolation transformer, and I know it will not trip a GFCI extension cord. I have tested that.

I have a bunch of AFCI GFCI combo breakers in my Square-D electrical panel. 5 AC circuits out of 8 in the panel are AFCI-GFCI protected. I have almost zero nuisance trips. If rain gets an outlet wet, it will trip off the power to that circuit. I have not noticed high humidity causing any tripping.

I also don't have a galvanic isolator. Of course that isolator is only useful if you have a current leak on your DC system.

That ELCI standard of 30 milliamps is a lot of current flowing before it shuts off the power. It will not prevent any electrocutions as will a GFCI 5 milliamp breaker.

yrs prior, with gen running out on the water, I had seawater splashing into the window, ran down the inside wall and into an outlet, and it was sizzling. That will never happen again.
 
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My marina has upgraded to the new standards and I have no problems with my boat at my marina.


After making a couple of trips up and down the Columbia River this summer I found several marinas where I had issues. Hood River marina I tried 3 different docks, none of which worked. At The Dalles Marina it didn't work until the maintenance guy came down and flipped a couple of breakers. Then it worked fine.


I suspect a lot of the problems at marinas is that they were not properly installed or tested when the new setups were installed.
 
If your not leaking current onto the ground wire, then your not going to trip these current leaking detection breakers at the docks.

Leaking AC current onto the ground circuit is a bad thing. Shock and equipment hazardous to people and who know but maybe can cause corrosion too with salt water boats. If AC is rectified by something with diode like qualities it turns into DC current and that can eat underwater metals and metal in the bilges just like DC current. Bad thing is the AC current is at 10 times the voltage so is going to be better if it has the opportunity at doing that destruction of property or people.

You could plug in and it seems ok, then you turn on something that leaks current and it will trip. Or you could have multiple problems that leak small amounts, and you turn on another leaker and it will trip, the current leakage detection ic cumulative for each leaking circuit. So you have to test everything that uses AC power for grounding faults.

Someday soon, I think they are going to start build boats that don't leak AC current, they will pay more attention to this as the standards are tightened for power supplies at marinas.
 
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My marina has upgraded to the new standards and I have no problems with my boat at my marina.


After making a couple of trips up and down the Columbia River this summer I found several marinas where I had issues. Hood River marina I tried 3 different docks, none of which worked. At The Dalles Marina it didn't work until the maintenance guy came down and flipped a couple of breakers. Then it worked fine.


I suspect a lot of the problems at marinas is that they were not properly installed or tested when the new setups were installed.

Had the same issue at Hood River. Switched things on slowly and it finally worked.
 
Had the same issue at Hood River. Switched things on slowly and it finally worked.
We were there in April and the guy said they had just installed it. None of the plugins on the guest dock worked. They were all flipped off when we got there and he couldn't get them to stay on even when we were not plugged in.

We moved to a regular slip and tried it and as soon as we hooked up our power cables they tripped.
 
Someday soon, I think they are going to start build boats that don't leak AC current, they will pay more attention to this as the standards are tightened for power supplies at marinas.

They do it now. We've never had an issue on any of our boats.
 
We were there in April and the guy said they had just installed it. None of the plugins on the guest dock worked. They were all flipped off when we got there and he couldn't get them to stay on even when we were not plugged in.

We moved to a regular slip and tried it and as soon as we hooked up our power cables they tripped.

Before we left (going down river) a lady from the port office came down and wanted to know how our stay was. She told us they were having issues with the new outlets and would have to bring in an electrician from Portland that specialized in marina installation.

I also suggested they run at least one hose bib to the dock.
 
Well not new (2011), but this explains GFP on newer docks. My boat has tripped some of these, but not all the time. This type of electrical circuit is called a "floating) ground.



https://www.powerandmotoryacht.com/maintenance/why-some-boaters-suddenly-cant-connect-to-shore-power

Tom, when we pulled into Petersburg last summer, the first question from the harbormaster was, "Do you have an isolation transformer?", which we did. I think most all the other SE AK city docks have made the GFP upgrades.
 
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You could plug in and it seems ok, then you turn on something that leaks current and it will trip. Or you could have multiple problems that leak small amounts, and you turn on another leaker and it will trip, the current leakage detection ic cumulative for each leaking circuit. So you have to test everything that uses AC power for grounding faults.

Someday soon, I think they are going to start build boats that don't leak AC current, they will pay more attention to this as the standards are tightened for power supplies at marinas.

As a non-electrician, it's frustrating for everything to work fine at one dock, or even several docks, but then not work at the next one. I'm finding it hard to believe this is all on my boat because it works at the majority of docks we stay at, but not Hood River, for example.

When we stay at a dock we plug into 50A 240 and either 50A or 30A 120. At most of the docks, we can use everything and anything on the boat and not have any problems.

When we were at The Dalles marina we couldn't get anything to work. Some lady from the Port office came down and wasn't much help. She called some guy and when he got to the docks he flipped a breaker in a power box at the top of the ramp and BINGO, everything worked fine.

Go figure.
 
I have had a couple of experiences with GFCIs tripping on newly rewired docks. It generally occurs with older boats and probably wet or bad wiring is the cause. There is a diagnostic procedure to go through tohelp find the cause, but I won't repeat it here. Do a search. There was a long thread on this topic earlier this year.

You will be increasingly locked out of the marinas' shore power systems until you do something about it. Get a good marine electrician. Ask him if has dealt with this issue before. If not find someone else. You don't want to be training someone on your boat.

Sooner or later all marinas will have GFCIs protecting their shore power system. You need to deal with it and get your boat fixed.

Are we safer as a result? I don't think so but the electrical code is the electrical code.

David
 
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Of course it is safer not to have electrical current flowing in the water around marinas especially in fresh water. Just google electrical shock drowning.
 
As a non-electrician, it's frustrating for everything to work fine at one dock, or even several docks, but then not work at the next one. I'm finding it hard to believe this is all on my boat because it works at the majority of docks we stay at, but not Hood River, for example.

I have had a couple of experiences with GFCIs tripping on newly rewired docks. It generally occurs with older boats and probably wet or bad wiring is the cause. There is a diagnostic procedure to go through tohelp find the cause, but I won't repeat it here. Do a search. There was a long thread on this topic earlier this year.


IIRC, one posit of that long thread was that if "your boat" trips the new GFCIs, there really is something wrong and it needs fixing... no matter whether "your boat" doesn't seem to have that problem at other older-style dock systems.

-Chris
 
IIRC, one posit of that long thread was that if "your boat" trips the new GFCIs, there really is something wrong and it needs fixing... no matter whether "your boat" doesn't seem to have that problem at other older-style dock systems.

-Chris


The only possible reason this may not be 100% true is for "cumulative" leakage where your boat may be leaking only 4mA but the other boats on the 30mA GF circuit are leaking a sum of 26mA. Your boat may be the one to push it over the top.

That said your boat should not be leaking anything, and if wired properly, would not be. You could write an entire book on this subject but still the average owner can do a few things to test for these issues.


As marinas update dock wiring they need to become in compliance with the new codes. Many marinas are pushing this off as long as they can to avoid the expense.

The current NFPA 70 / NEC requirements Article 555 Marinas & Boatyards, which rolled out in 2011, required a 100mA ground fault protection level for marina docks. In the 2017 NFPA 70 / NEC 555 this maximum level was dropped from 100mA to 30mA. What is so frustrating about the updated land based marina standards, is that it does not require GF interruption for each pedestal.

The Problem:

#1 NFPA 70 / NEC requirements do not specifically mandate protection at each dock pedestal, which would be the only prudent way to adopt or phase this into an entire industry where the safety standards are voluntary and the voluntary standards are arguably grossly ignored.

As a result of not installing ground fault protection at the pedestal level, for each boat, any vessel plugging into a dock pedestal that is protected by an upstream ground fault device can create nuisance trips for every boat on that circuit. Shore based ground fault devices, that cover multiple pedestals (boats), can result in a trip that depowers all the boats on that string and create a lost power situation to all of those vessels.

The NFPA / NEC roll out has already cost boaters significant $$ in destroyed battery banks etc.. Unfortunately the boaters who lost out may not have been the ones who actually caused /created the problem, just the recipient of what I often refer to as Darryl & Darryl wiring, for those old enough to get the Newhart reference.. No offense to any Darryl's out there....

The NFPA / NEC ground fault requirements are only serving to expose the horrendous wiring that has gone on in the marine industry for far too long. Even if your boat is properly wired, to ABYC standards, you can still suffer the consequences of Darryl & Darryl hack jobbing their own boat. The only way to get around this major issue is for a marina to install GF protection at each pedestal so that only the offending boat loses power..

For what it is worth, I have very infrequently come across an owner who believed it was their boat creating the leakage or corrosion issues. In almost all cases it starts out as "someone else's problem" until the fault is found on-board. Even when you can show them the problem, with physical measurements, they are still often in denial.

#2 Far too many boats out there are not wired to meet or exceed the ABYC safety standards. The NFPA / NEC could really care less about this, it's not their issue. When you plug an incorrectly wired vessel into the new NFPA /NEC shore standards, requiring ground fault protection, it can now becomes everyone's issue not just the problem vessel.

Boats that are not wired to current ABYC standards, as a group, have very, very high ground fault percentages. For example the number of boats I measure with AC grounding (GREEN) and AC Neutral (WHITE) bonded on-board the vessel is in the range of 35-40% +/-. This is absolutely insane...... :facepalm:

Bottom Line? Improperly wired vessels, vessels not wired to ABYC standards, can cause nuisance tripping of shore ground fault interrupters.

The sheer age of many vessels also means some of them have equipment that is so antiquated that it too creates an inadvertent neutral to grounding bond.

#3 What's the Rx?

Marina Rx:
Marina's who want happy customers should ideally install a ground fault device at each pedestal so one boat can not take out an entire dock or entire group of vessels. This is in compliance with NFPA 70 / NEC and actually exceeds the minimum requirements. By installing a ground fault device at each pedestal this prevents Darryl & Darryl's stellar wiring job from taking out your boat when they create a nuisance trip.

Marina's also need to comprehend and understand that GF leakage is additive. If we have ten boats each leaking 4 mA, which is not even enough for each boat to trip an individual 110V 5mA GFCI, those ten boats together can trip a single 30 mA ground fault device.

Marina's should prohibit vessels that cause a nuisance trips, from plugging into their system, until the fault has been corrected. If a vessel is tripping a 100mA threshold device (and this is not due to additive leakage) this creates a very dangerous potential for electric shock drowning. If we thought this issue was bad at 100mA, the issue of nuisance trips is only going to get worse now that the NEC has dropped to 30mA.

Marina's need to fully understand the new requirements and be trained on how to conduct spot audits and to check for individual vessel issues that would otherwise create problems for the rest of their customers. Or do it right and install a 30mA device at each pedestal this way only the offending customer is left without power.

When a marina is re-wired they now need to become in compliance with the current shore based standards. Shore standards extend to the dock pedestal receptacle and ABYC standards begin at the shore power cordset.

This problem of nuisance tripping is only going to get worse, much worse as time goes on and more and more marinas become in compliance with the NFPA 70 / NEC requirements. Now that the code has dropped to 30mA, to protect multiple pedestals, it will become even worse.


Boat Owner Rx:
Wire your vessel to the current ABYC standards and you will no longer create dangerous situations, power loss or dead batteries for those around you who do have properly wired boats. Also if you have a self testing galvanic isolator get rid of it and replace it with a Fail Safe Galvanic Isolator. The automatic testing GI devices will trip a GFCI. There are many more tests than below but these two are pretty simple as a baseline..

Two Easy Tests for 120V 30A Service:

1- Use a high resolution AC clamp meter set to measure A or mA. Extech, Yokogowa and Fluke all make excellent AC leakage clamp testers. Ideally every marina should own one. Power up your on-board AC devices (hopefully all of them) & place the clamp around your shore power cord. The reading should be 0.0A. Any reading above this is indicating an amperage imbalance between the hot and neutral AC conductors and indicating that this missing current is leaking elsewhere eg: into the water..

2- One of the easiest tests or starting points is to physically unplug your vessel from the pedestal and be sure your inverter is decoupled from DC so it does not auto-invert. Make sure any manual transfer switches are set to SHORE. Now test for continuity between AC WHITE/Neutral and AC GREEN/Earth/Grounding pins at the shore end of the cord or at your on-board grounding bus and neutral bus.. There should be no continuity.

If you find issues you are unsure of I would suggest bringing in a professional.
 
I help out at a small marina that does not have the new system installed. However, we check every transient boat with a hand held meter. If the meter shows leakage, the owner is asked to disconnect. If they elect to stay (without power), they are advised that they will be periodically checked for compliance.
 
Two Easy Tests for 120V 30A Service:

1- Use a high resolution AC clamp meter set to measure A or mA. Extech, Yokogowa and Fluke all make excellent AC leakage clamp testers. Ideally every marina should own one. Power up your on-board AC devices (hopefully all of them) & place the clamp around your shore power cord. The reading should be 0.0A. Any reading above this is indicating an amperage imbalance between the hot and neutral AC conductors and indicating that this missing current is leaking elsewhere eg: into the water..

2- One of the easiest tests or starting points is to physically unplug your vessel from the pedestal and be sure your inverter is decoupled from DC so it does not auto-invert. Make sure any manual transfer switches are set to SHORE. Now test for continuity between AC WHITE/Neutral and AC GREEN/Earth/Grounding pins at the shore end of the cord or at your on-board grounding bus and neutral bus.. There should be no continuity.


Thanks very much; I was wondering how to test...

Is there an easy counterpart process for a 50A/240V boat? Clamp meters for the shorepower cord? How to check continuity?

-Chris
 
The only time mine will trip a GFCI is if I plug it in with "stuff" powered on.

The boat is covered for the winter. I come by about once a month to top off all the batteries. The rechargeable hand-held radios, wireless mics, flashlights, etc are plugged in, and the battery charger is on.

If I plug in the shore power cord with all that stuff on, it'll trip. If I open all the breakers, plug in, and power everything up one at a time, no problem.

Obviously when it's snowy out, it would be great to just plug in and not have to trudge through the deep snow around the boats, set up a ladder in the snow, open the cover and crawl into the boat to play with the breakers.

Ideas?
 
Canadian standards are different, no US Code docks that we have seen. BC Hydro is not yet in agreement that the "new" US marina design is sensible with 30ma being one thing but setup another. Nor are all US master marine electricians liking the regs in their entirety.

As noted by CMS, the individual dock pedestals set at 30 ma, rather than the entire row, will go a long way to solve issues. But with Federal funds tying some marinas hands by requiring a faulty initial design, there is a disconnect that needs resolution.
 
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CaptClay

I have a Mainship 430 and replaced my stock galvanic isolator with an updated model from the same company (at a discounted price). The factory galvanic isolator supposedly sent out pings that would have tripped a GFI. That didn't solve the problem.



We had a lot of problems on the upper OH River this summer with "new marinas" built after the epic floods there last winer. WV law requires a system like a GFI but more sensative. We isolated the problem to inverter circuits.



Purportedly, there was a plug-in connection in my Magnum inverter that caused the problem. Haven't had a chance to check it since the "fix" since we were out of the area.






We have had this problem too. Our galvanic isolator has a self test for several problems, such as reverse polarity, short to ground, stray current, etc. With all breakers turned off, and the cord plugged into the pedestal and boat, I turn on the breaker at the pedestal. No problem. I then turn on the main breaker where the cord enters the boat. No problem for 20 seconds, then the pedestal breaker trips. When watching the isolator test panel you can see it going through the tests until the third or fourth test and that's when it trips. I contacted the manufacturer of the isolator and they told me the test circuit is the problem. The answer is to purchase a newer style isolator without the test circuit. I actually like the test circuit, as it has found ground fault problems at several marinas that otherwise wouldn't have been found. By the way, the isolation transformers noted in the article are very expensive.
 
Since our marina here in TN installed the (mandated by law here in TN) GFPI breakers (one per slip) there were many boats that tripped them. Of course there was the usual griping about "my boat has been fine for ---etc" and then reality set in. I have helped debug many of my dock neighbors.

One peculiar one that perplexed many here was the boats with two 30 amp cords, and it goes like this:

(a) With either cord plugged in, and those items on board on that circuit turned on, all was fine. No trips. Amp-meter clamp the cord and zero leakage shown.
(b) Plug both the cords in, and the GFPI would trip.
(c) the reason turned out to be very easy to identify, and that was that the neutrals (white) from both circuits were made common (connected together) at some place on board. The reason this trips the GFPI is as follows (to use one example). Take the situation where on one 30 amp circuit the loads on board are 20 amps and the the other 30 amp circuit has a 10 amp load. If the neutrals are connected together, and the wire runs are approximately the same, including shore-power cords, then what will happen it that half of the total 30 amps (20 + 10) i.e. 15 amps will flow back to the utility on each of the cords. Now, what the GFPI sees is one cord with 20 amps going out on the black and only 15 amps coming back on the white, and the second cord with 10 amps going out on the black and 15 amps coming back. Both situations will trip the GFPI. Thankfully, the solution is usually not too difficult to remedy. Find where there is commonality between the two circuits neutrals and make sure they are separated. Likely only requires another terminal strip and some labor.

A second fairly common fault was that the inverter provided circuits did not have their neutral buss kept separate from the non-inverter backed-up circuits. Here the sequence of events in discovery went like this. With the inverter turned off, and shore power on, all was well. If you turned on the inverter and disconnected the shore power, the inverter picked up the job (on the inverter backup up circuits as it should) all was still well. Then, if you reconnected the shore power, bingo the GFPI tripped. This was because when the inverter was turned on, it was prepared to provide a neutral-to-ground bond (as code required) BUT did not do so since shore power was already available. Then, when you disconnected shore power, the inverter began to provide 120 vac AND bonded the white neutral and the green earth ground. Now, when you reconnected the shore power, that bond (neutral to ground) was present and bang, the GFPI tripped.

Last of all (besides just plain out-and-out wiring faults) there were several instances where the boat had a reverse polarity warning circuit. This circuit was often nothing more than a relay wired between neutral and ground with a buzzer that was triggered if it ever energized (needless to say there never should be a potential difference between neutral and ground). The problem was that the circuitry of the ground fault sensor old technology is seen itself seen as a ground fault! The solution of course was to get rid of it.

What fun!!
 
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So I looked at Isolators. OMG those things are spendy!!! A couple of boat dollars......
 
Isolation transformers?
 
Our boat has twin 30s, it would trip GFCI by just plugging them in. In troubleshooting I found that one 30 was wired directly to the bus with no circuit breaker, one problem. All the neutrals were on one bus bar, another problem. The real trouble was that all the wires were individual wires so I had no idea which neutral went with which hot. Took a couple of days to trace them out. I used an extension cord and cut off the female end so I could plug it into an outlet and bring the cutoff end back to the panel and ohm out the neutral until I found which one it was. In the end I ended up with one neutral that I could not determine where it goes so it is unconnected and everything seems to work. No more tripped GFCIs on the docks.

A friends boat would trip the GFCIs on the dock. He also had twin 30s power inlets. We found 4 problems. One, all the neutrals bussed together. Two, the two voltmeters had a common neutral connection. Three, his water heater had a short between neutral and ground. Four, someone had replaced an outlet and had swapped the neutral and ground wires on the outlet. He had actually felt his muscles start to sieze up when he was in the water with the boat plugged in at the dock but attributed it to cold water until I explained ESD to him. He was lucky that he was standing in the water rather than swimming so he was able to get out ok.
 
When sorting out those inverter comingled neutrals, keep in mind that those tiny LED or neon pilot indicators on the panel board also have a neutral! If the indicator is wired to an inverter-powered circuit, the neutral must be wired to the inverter's neutral same as the circuit it's indicating. Yes, it's only a couple of milliamps (2.3 for the Blue Seas), but if they're wired to the wrong neutral, it adds up, perhaps enough to create a trip condition. Maybe it won't trip a 30 ma pedestal breaker, but it might be enough to put a central breaker over the edge.
 
Joining neutrals together across incoming 30 amp lines is bad wiring practice, and can trip a gfci which measures the difference between incoming and outgoing current. If you share a neutral then there will be a current mismatch and if it exceeds the GFCI threshold will trip and all these little mistakes add up. Silly to have a single 30 ma breaker protecting an entire string of boats, someones goofy wiring job is going to turn off my power will not make me happy or anyone else. A marina might do that to save money.

If someones unattended boat or an ignorant person trips off the power to the dock shutting off everyones power, like to your fridge and battery charger it is more than an inconvenience.
 
ProMariner makes a nice 60 Amp Isolater that can be used with one 50AMP line, or two 30amp lines - sells for around $300 on sale. Not sure if running two 30 AMP lines would combine neutrals - will have to check that out. But I run one 50amp line, so this looks promising. Anyone have experience with this ProMariner product?? :thumb:
 
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