Crying shame

Hi,

I just read WWF's new report and I feel great shame to belong to the human species.

On average, we’ve seen an astonishing 60% decline in the size of populations of mammals, birds, fish, reptiles, and amphibians in just over 40 years, according to WWF’s Living Planet Report 2018. The top threats to species identified in the report link directly to human activities, including habitat loss and degradation and the excessive use of wildlife such as overfishing and overhunting.


The report presents a sobering picture of the impact human activity has on the world’s wildlife, forests, oceans, rivers, and climate. We’re facing a rapidly closing window for action and the urgent need for everyone—everyone—to collectively rethink and redefine how we value, protect, and restore nature.

Link this report https://wwf.fi/mediabank/11561.pdf

NBs

Yup, people are invasive much like any virus, big corporation / greed is a number one contributor...it will end soon.

Overpopulation of the human species is the number one problem in the world. Climate change / global warming, lack of fresh water, reduction of habitat and other species are only symptoms of this problem. Until you reverse human population growth, the problems will only get worse. Unfortunately, politics, religion and most large entities see their strength growing as a function of increasing numbers.

Ted

I agree Ted, it causes all sorts of problems we never hear openly addressed.

More fake news, I think if people get out more they would see. There are more deer now than in the early 1900’s and more than pre colonial times.
http://www.nbcnews.com/id/6835501/ns/us_news-environment/t/deer-eating-away-forests-nationwide/

swampu said:

More fake news, I think if people get out more they would see. There are more deer now than in the early 1900’s and more than pre colonial times.
Deer eating away at forests nationwide - US news - Environment | NBC News

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Yeesh, are people really this stupid? The increase of one population, in one area, has nothing to do with the overall decline in species numbers and diversity. If anything the issues of over-grazing and over-populating are even more the result of human mistakes.

Perhaps "get out more" is good advice... take it to heart.

Yes, people are “this stupid” I lease 2500 acres of land that I manage/harvest deer and teach young people to do the same. I participate in every fishery program that protect game fish in my area. I can’t help the rhino or whale, if I lived in the north west I would raise hell about all the sewer that dumps into the sound but that’s not my battle. I am proud of what I’ve done and what I continue to do, so go buy another Prius or keep talking about impossible things like what to do with to many human beings. I’ll keep being stupid!

Since I am an avid birder, as is my wife, a recreational fisherman after working the waters over the years too, I will add my thoughts on this one, some of which may be a bit tough to outright harsh against some of these so called environmental groups and enviromental policies in general. We as a nation has gone way overboard on these issues.


These environmental groups rarely practice what they preach. If many of the problems that they champion was to ever be cured then they would be out of business of their gravy train . Most of the leaders lives in mega homes move about in luxury vehicles and aircraft when not living behind some sort of wall. Their protected [SIZE=+0]lifestyles [/SIZE]is something that would never be afforded to me either. But yet they send me literature asking for me to donate to their causes almost on a monthly basis..

But folks that participate in outdoor activities that includes fossil fuel fiberglass yachts are at odds with any professed beliefs on the environment if they are genuinely concerned about an environmental issue.. Fiberglass boats are not biodegradable either unlike my wooden boat. So the owners of fiberglass boats are actually polluting big time as some advocate for the elimination of plastic products, including of all things tiny straws and plastic bags from the grocery stores.

Quick side note here, [SIZE=+0]w[/SIZE]hen I was in Maine last year I could not even get a bag to carry out four subs at the local subway shop because of the regulations imposed by the local city council. But we went across the street to the local grocery store for some supplies and picked up some muffins at their bakery section. [SIZE=+0]T[/SIZE]hey provided one of those plastic divided trays for us to carry the four muffins out. For sure there was more plastic in that tray than a simple bag or a tiny straw that’s now banned in many parts of the country. There is plenty of stupid to go round in the name of preserving and protecting the environment. We are just a tiny spec journeying around the sun for a tiny brief nanosecond in the skeem of things. I am not going to feel guilty about being born and then creating another generation to enjoy the outdoors and let it ruin my days constantly worrying about the next story written to create a panic attack in the next few moments by some of these groups.

FWIW I do take issue with those baloon releases in the name of some cause. Those do affect the birds right along with those dang windmills and even huge solar panel farms. Heck those solar panel farms actually contaminate the ground and water along with frying birds that lands on them in the name of renewable energy. Those farms will actually reduce more family farms too, which can never be replanted.

This is just one article in the past couple of years. It actually discusses some related issues brought on about this one particular solar farm. And this is manmade in the name of renewable energy and reducing global warming. [shaking my head in shame]
http://www.latimes.com/local/california/la-me-solar-bird-deaths-20160831-snap-story.html

Regards with no ill will intended to anyone.


I need to get back to my bird thread that I started before the hurricane got me side tracked.

The most fun is right here in FL where the red tide folks want to stop iron laden dust from blowing over from the African desert.


Will be a heck of a wall!

Many groups start out with good intention and are quickly corrupted.

Many environmental groups were funded by industry for competitive advantage. Forest products and petroleum products were in competition for many things, grocery bags as an example, but mostly chemical.


Haber-Bosch, overpopulation, how babies come from oil wells, good read.


https://www.theguardian.com/science/2013/nov/03/fritz-haber-fertiliser-ammonia-centenary


Link grabbed for convenience, I didn't read it all.

And this thread is about boats and the boating life????

Alaskan Sea-Duction said:

And this thread is about boats and the boating life????

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+1

As the mods were saying, or maybe not.

Not to stop the efforts of the two Toms above me, but I love those tree hugging snowflakes. I really like it when they get in a spat with each other, like happens from time to time when the "save the salmon" people get into it with the "save the sea lions" over shooting sea lions at Bonneville Dam on the Columbia River.


I also love the windmill groups in the Seattle area who absolutely LOVE windmills, but only if they're in Eastern WA, not around the west side of the state.


That's the same group who got an initiative passed a few years ago that defined "renewable energy" but didn't include the waters of the Columbia and Snake Rivers which produce more energy with the dams than the windmills could ever think of producing.


I had to chuckle recently when we were bringing the boat back from Portland, OR. As we cruised through parts of the western sides of Oregon and Washington where, BTW you will find no windmills, the wind was blowing like crazy. Only when we got to eastern WA where all the windmills are located did the wind stop blowing for the remainder of our trip. Here's what I'm talking about. This first video is in the western part of the state where there are no windmills but lots of wind....


and this one is taken in the eastern side of the Cascade mountains where there are tons of windmills, but often little wind.



I have lots more of those, but that gives you an idea.

GFC said:

Not to stop the efforts of the two Toms above me, but I love those tree hugging snowflakes. I really like it when they get in a spat with each other, like happens from time to time when the "save the salmon" people get into it with the "save the sea lions" over shooting sea lions at Bonneville Dam on the Columbia River.


I also love the windmill groups in the Seattle area who absolutely LOVE windmills, but only if they're in Eastern WA, not around the west side of the state.


That's the same group who got an initiative passed a few years ago that defined "renewable energy" but didn't include the waters of the Columbia and Snake Rivers which produce more energy with the dams than the windmills could ever think of producing.


I had to chuckle recently when we were bringing the boat back from Portland, OR. As we cruised through parts of the western sides of Oregon and Washington where, BTW you will find no windmills, the wind was blowing like crazy. Only when we got to eastern WA where all the windmills are located did the wind stop blowing for the remainder of our trip. Here's what I'm talking about. This first video is in the western part of the state where there are no windmills but lots of wind....

I have lots more of those, but that gives you an idea.

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Hi, wind mill park here, 160-megawatt installation...


NBs

Soon we won't have to worry about over population since we (well, nobody on TF) are over fishing the oceans and in 50 years there won't be much left.
When I was in the Baltic, there are rusting hulks of old Soviet trawlers. No longer needed, because there are hardly any fish in the Baltic anymore.

Now, the Chinese (#1 culprit) are doing he same in the open ocean.
https://qz.com/948980/china-has-fis...ow-sticking-their-rods-in-other-nations-seas/


On the other hand, in 25 years, plastic particles (degraded to micro and nano sized particles) will comprise 25% of the entire biomass of the ocean.

Over population can be easily solved by volunteerism. Does anyone care enough to volunteer?

Alaskan Sea-Duction said:

And this thread is about boats and the boating life????

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It is posted in "Harbor Chat" which is described as:

"Friendly, professional, informal exchange of "NON-boating" topics. Political comments, weaponry and religious discussions are off-limits in this forum."

Now comes the question of whether an Environmental Opinion Post would run afoul of political post being off-limits.

I think perhaps no, since it is an "Issue" and not a "Political Party" discussion.

IG
True if one ignores that environmental discussions such as global warming and the Paris Accords are in the middle of all 50 States' current political topics.

Moonstruck, speaking of overgrazing, did you note that Oregon courts have nixed the plan to sterilize the wild horses that are chomping at the rangelands in that state? Next thing you know seals will be in the target hairs of the enviros save mission, oops we're already there too, in Oregon no less!

Moonstruck said:

Over population can be easily solved by volunteerism. Does anyone care enough to volunteer?

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I hope so. NBS raises a serious issue which as I see it, results from excessive demands on the planet stemming from overpopulation.
The thread is a good test of the effects of closing OTDE. So far, so good....

I hope you can see boating related to the subject, because at least my boating leaves the traces of carbon at all times.

In fact, I did a tricky thing to reduce my emissions by acquiring my NT that consumes - 73% of the previous diesel vs my old boat. It is not the world of salvation, but if everyone does something to reduce emissions, it certainly will not be a problem for this planet.

There is a lot of work here in Finland that recycles and we produce 0.14% of all the fossil carbon footprint this planet, so there is not much left here to reduce.

Population volume is not a direct problem but primarily black carbon power plants here were just made the decision on the last carbon energy facilities to be ceased by 2029 at the latest and we are trying to get them down to 2025 with a financial boost for power plants.

My purpose is not to preach or guilty of anyone, just hope everyone thinks it is possible to do a little differently and respect other species here on the planet than their own species in the immediate neighborhood so that we do not laugh at their own **** and kill all the animal species extinct, except the cockroach which studies are the only one to survive even the nuclear weapon radiation...


NBs

North Baltic sea said:

I hope you can see boating related to the subject, because at least my boating leaves the traces of carbon at all times.

In fact, I did a tricky thing to reduce my emissions by acquiring my NT that consumes - 73% of the previous diesel vs my old boat. It is not the world of salvation, but if everyone does something to reduce emissions, it certainly will not be a problem for this planet.

There is a lot of work here in Finland that recycles and we produce 0.14% of all the fossil carbon footprint this planet, so there is not much left here to reduce.

Population volume is not a direct problem but primarily black carbon power plants here were just made the decision on the last carbon energy facilities to be ceased by 2029 at the latest and we are trying to get them down to 2025 with a financial boost for power plants.

My purpose is not to preach or guilty of anyone, just hope everyone thinks it is possible to do a little differently and respect other species here on the planet than their own species in the immediate neighborhood so that we do not laugh at their own **** and kill all the animal species extinct, except the cockroach which studies are the only one to survive even the nuclear weapon radiation...

NBs

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With you 100%, NBs.

Others can make fun all you want of various efforts to save the whales, save the salmon, save the trees, reduce global warming, etc. But those people are at least trying to make the world a better place, as opposed to way too many who are happy with the status quo - especially if changing would inconvenience them in some way.

BrianSmith said:

With you 100%, NBs.

Others can make fun all you want of various efforts to save the whales, save the salmon, save the trees, reduce global warming, etc. But those people are at least trying to make the world a better place, as opposed to way too many who are happy with the status quo - especially if changing would inconvenience them in some way.

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Now Brian, you are a boat owner you know getting about 1NMPG. I'm doing my part, sold the Suburban and using kilowatts from a nuclear power plant for household needs.

O C Diver said:

Overpopulation of the human species is the number one problem in the world. Climate change / global warming, lack of fresh water, reduction of habitat and other species are only symptoms of this problem. Until you reverse human population growth, the problems will only get worse. Unfortunately, politics, religion and most large entities see their strength growing as a function of increasing numbers.

Ted

Click to expand...

Right on, Ted.
Every program, accomplished or proposed, to save our planet from environmental disaster is an ineffective small band-aid on a very large wound. That wound is OVER POPULATION which is the greatest threat to survive-ability on this planet. Each child born creates a carbon footprint of 58,000,000 (that's fifty eight million) tons a year based on the greenhouse gases your child and their offspring would put into the atmosphere as a result of their daily living over four generations.
https://www.nbcnews.com/mach/sci...


Overpopulation an appropriate topic for our forum? IMHO the degradation of world cruising grounds, of our rivers and shores, of peoples and wildlife in Oceania, and the fact we struggle to meet expensive Tier III emission requirements (don't even think about Tier IV!), only to have the benefits cancelled by the first few babies born each morning, kind of makes it our business.

Bring back the plaque and other diseases that took thousands of lives.

BrianSmith said:

Others can make fun all you want of various efforts to save the whales, save the salmon, save the trees, reduce global warming, etc. But those people are at least trying to make the world a better place, as opposed to way too many who are happy with the status quo - especially if changing would inconvenience them in some way.

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This. So much. All the naysaying and effort spent trying to piss all over anything that attempts to improve things by taking a different approach. Electric cars, yeesh, the bellyaching from some about that.

One could apply that same fear of change to all kinds of social factors. None of which would ever have any direct impact on their miserably ignorant little lives. But they'll rail mightily against it, no matter what it is. It's different, it's not what WE BELIEVE! Etc, etc... Pathetic.

"On the other hand, in 25 years, plastic particles (degraded to micro and nano sized particles) will comprise 25% of the entire biomass of the ocean."

Time enough to GMO a creature that simply eats plastic and turns it into food.

I believe only 9 rivers are the source of the majority of the plastic waste , a boycott on their exports and tourism might be enough to get their attention?

Bigsfish said:

Bring back the plaque and other diseases that took thousands of lives.

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In the long run, most natural processes are self leveling. So, be patient.

HMMM,

Nuclear winter , starvation , no crops , no water , and of course overpopulation ,

Then it was the Ozone hole , we would all rot from skin cancer ,

Then it was Peak Oil , only publik transport would be allowed fuel , we would freeze in our homes,

Don't forget Acid Rain and toxic fumes or Radon,

Now global warming will raise the sea level many feet , next week,

This is only a partial list of the terrors that would , according to the Gov , kill us all.

Only thing missing is reality,,,,,,,,,,,, as usual.

Don’t forget a few years ago the earth was going to freeze over. Florida wou,d be underwater. Anything to promote an agenda.

FF said:

HMMM,

Nuclear winter , starvation , no crops , no water , and of course overpopulation ,

Then it was the Ozone hole , we would all rot from skin cancer ,

Then it was Peak Oil , only publik transport would be allowed fuel , we would freeze in our homes,

Don't forget Acid Rain and toxic fumes or Radon,

Now global warming will raise the sea level many feet , next week,

This is only a partial list of the terrors that would , according to the Gov , kill us all.

Only thing missing is reality,,,,,,,,,,,, as usual.

Click to expand...

Nuclear winter has not yet happened because we have not yet had a large scale nuclear exchange because folks decided it wasn’t a good idea.

The Ozone Hole was scary. Turns out it tends to be a seasonal phenomenon, getting bigger int spring and smaller in the winter. Remember back to the Montreal Protocol which banned the use of CFCs. So yeah, I remember the Ozone Hole and the Montreal Protocol was the intelligent response to science by governments who actually listened. The result is a gradually shrinking hole in the ozone that should be gone by the middle of this century rather than an increasingly large hole in the ozone.

Acid Rain. Yup a big deal staring in the 1980s. Congress passed laws starting in the ‘90s and continued in the early 2000s to reduce the sulfur emissions and other causes of acid rain. Due to this action, the result of actually paying attention to science, the levels of acid rain have dropped significantly (over 60%?) since the 1970s.

So now global warming. Let’s just ignore the science and just see what happens in 20-50 years. I won’t be around and my kids an grandkids can figure it out themselves. I don’t owe them **** after all.