There is an old saying in the yacht business;Moonfish wrote:
*Check out the Broward for sale in Seattle for a good example.
Everybody uses their boat differently and has different priorities.* We woud not even consider buying a boat that did not have a full, one-level, walk around deck.* The deck on our GB is pretty good but if the side decks were another foot wider they would be even better.nwboater wrote:
Not sure I understand why side decks are important? My 40' trawler is a widebody -- no side decks -- and I can't think of a time when I missed them.
There is an old saying in the yacht business;RickB wrote:Moonfish wrote:
*Check out the Broward for sale in Seattle for a good example.
******** I have written about this subject in the past.Marin wrote:
But based on the few Bayliner owners I have met over the years, experienced people who used their boats for extensive cruising in the PNW and up the coast to Alaska and back, I think the Bayliner "reputation" is not deserved based on the boats themselves.AM
*OK, exactly what does "To those in the business in a "services detailed" way, these cost cuts are obvious." mean.sunchaser wrote:
While easy to get offended if you own a Bayliner, the reality is Bayliner, Carver Silverton, Mainship et al do their best to keep costs down so they can sell a product. To those in the business in a "services detailed" way, these cost cuts are obvious. To many owners, this is exactly what they want, lots of space for not lots of money. For an easy*comparison on both costs and build quality, look at Bayliner vs Formula in the 30' to 35' range at your local boat show.
I bought 3 Searays after looking at the comparable Bayliner model, and I spent more money too, maybe not wisely. But don't beat up on Rick for stating the obvious,*read Pascoe.
*Actually I am probably the best person here on TF to get into a quality discussion about Bayliner Cruisers and Motoryachts. I've owned six of them, and have thousands of hours of hands on experience maintaining and upgrading them. I know their strenghts and I know their weaknesses.sunchaser wrote:
ksaunders
Why would I get into a quality*discussion with a person who is perfectly happy with his 6th Bayliner? If you read my message again, I was*positive about the Bayliner strategy. You love them like a religion,*that is all that counts.
I was and am asking that you quantify those comments. What "Obvious cost cuts" are used in the construction of Bayliner Cruisers or Motoryachts. Please be specific. I can then either confirm your observations, or possibly I can educate you as to the realities of Bayliners large cruisers and Motoryachts.sunchaser wrote:
While easy to get offended if you own a Bayliner, the reality is Bayliner, Carver Silverton, Mainship et al do their best to keep costs down so they can sell a product. To those in the business in a "services detailed" way, these cost cuts are obvious. To many owners, this is exactly what they want, lots of space for not lots of money. For an easy*comparison on both costs and build quality, look at Bayliner vs Formula in the 30' to 35' range at your local boat show.
I bought 3 Searays after looking at the comparable Bayliner model, and I spent more money too, maybe not wisely. But don't beat up on Rick for stating the obvious,*read Pascoe.
*I don't have any of his books but I have examined his website in detail.* My conclusion is that he offers a lot of good information worth checking into if one is contemplating buying a boat he reviews, but the information should all be taken with a grain of salt.* The impression I got from reading his material is that Pascoe is primarily interested in Pascoe.* To that end, he does everything he can to "stand out."* I get the impression that much of his material is negative more to draw attention to himself than to convey actual reality, although much of what he says is very real.ksanders wrote:I have read Pascoe.
nomadwilly wrote:
*But it's unlikely anyone on TF would have enough boat building and marketing experience to put the question straight.*
Years ago, while investigating purchasing my first "big boat", I tried to answer that question. Why were the 4588s priced so far below other similar length pilot house boats? Hino engines were part of the explanation but another thing that surfaced was that the Bayliner 4588 was the first completely CAD designed boat from the bottom up. (I don't know if it's true!) Think about it...no mockups, no engineering on the fly, just build to the drawings. Make all jigs and assembly fixtures to the drawings for 1 boat or 100 boats. Take your normal profit and pass the savings on to the buyer.
*Could have happened! (They also could have attempted to scoop the market.)* Still a best selling brokerage boat.