Endeavor 44 Power Cat. Reasonable use or no-way... (w/new member intro). :) Thanks!

Been cruising this forum for a long time and never signed up... so here I am!

He are finally a point where we are nearing the reality of taking an extended amount of time to cruise with our two kids.

We currently run a WorldCat 320EC and have cruised for a maximum of 2 weeks in one stint. We've done Fort Jefferson, Fort Myers, all over the Bahamas (but not everywhere we want yet)... Exumas, Cat Island, Eleuthera, Berries, Nassau... etc.

Some goals moving forward. We want to do Great Inagua... and the surrounding area.

Our "master" trip would be a trip around the Gulf, through the Panama canal, and up to the Columbia River in Oregon.

The only trip we have ever considered that is a little intimidating is the Oregon trip. I've been reading a lot about the Pacific waters... and it is definitely different from what I think I have seen here on the East Coast.

So... the first, and most important comment/question:

I pretty much have my mind made up on a cat. Draft, efficiency, etc. Having the 320EC has really sold me on the benefits of a catamaran. I still vacillate to a mono, but my wife and kids are VERY accustom to the ride and calm that a cat affords (I know I can get a stabilized mono...)...
With that, I have read and researched many of the power cats and I keep coming back to the same one over and over and over... the Endeavor 44. it checks all the boxes for us. However, I have one pressing and nagging concern: Is this a boat that cruisers would feel comfortable running up the Pacific? A majority of our boating is on the East Coast -- and this will be the last boat we buy (before we roll back to something smaller)... I do not want to buy a boat for the purpose of one trip.

What are you thoughts?

First, we are east coast boaters, like you, so can’t comment on Pacific waters. However, like you, we are also cat aficionados and have taken a long, hard look at the Endeavour 44. The factory is in Clearwater, FL and the owner, Bob Vincent, will happily give you a tour. They’re well-built boats that are thoughtfully designed. With an eye on the weather, I wouldn’t hesitate to take one anywhere up the east coast or into the Caribbean.

There are currently four on the market. Three are on YachtWorld and one is a private seller who is on this forum (Hey Mark).

Best of luck in your search. Let us know how it’s going and if you have any questions.

John

JohnEasley said:

First, we are east coast boaters, like you, so can’t comment on Pacific waters. However, like you, we are also cat aficionados and have taken a long, hard look at the Endeavour 44. The factory is in Clearwater, FL and the owner, Bob Vincent, will happily give you a tour. They’re well-built boats that are thoughtfully designed. With an eye on the weather, I wouldn’t hesitate to take one anywhere up the east coast or into the Caribbean.

There are currently four on the market. Three are on YachtWorld and one is a private seller who is on this forum (Hey Mark).

Best of luck in your search. Let us know how it’s going and if you have any questions.

John

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I agree on no concern with taking it anywhere up and down the East Coast... and it's a natural for the Great Loop (although some argue that it is a little wide (?))... Our "bucket list" trip is this Panama Canal/Oregon trip... I've been studying charts and I have to say -- it's a different world on the West Coast.

I'm in South Florida -- so visiting Clearwater is definitely on my list -- granted we would be buying used... not new (I wish!). I like the Yanmars (The fact that other cat makers are using Volvo is a problem for me)... I also feel that the interaction that I have had with the factory so far has been very good... and this is important to me. I'd rather buy from a mfg. that is still around!

Thanks for the reply... I look forward to learning a lot more. Pete

I've never been aboard an Endeavour 44...these boats don't have an inside helm, but a 'flybridge' helm only, right?

You would need a pretty robust enclosure system and maybe even a good heat source up there for those long days (or weeks) of cold driving rain the further north you go on the west coast.

Just thoughts as I have no Cat experience.
When you go north and south on the west coast all the seas are coming from the west--always a beam sea. There are some long runs on parts of the west coast between ports.


In busier/smaller marinas you may have a docking problem with your extra beam, obviously not a problem if anchoring.


The extra speed capabilities of most cats help decrease some of the above.


As mentioned above-cold and rainy in the PNW is not an uncommon weather condition and running from an open flybridge can be less than comfortable.


I've seen some cat hulls (power & sail) in the PNW and they seem to do fine.

Here’s an older discussion of the viability of a powercat in the Caribbean.

http://www.trawlerforum.com/forums/s3/power-cat-vs-trawler-dilemma-please-advise-25796.html

Some PC owners say their boats suck in beam seas anything over 4’, and I think you will encounter bigger seas than that in the Caribbean.

I looked at a Endeavor 44 pretty hard a few years ago. Wife liked all the living space, but I didn’t like the engine room spaces.

cardude01 said:

Here’s an older discussion of the viability of a powercat in the Caribbean.

http://www.trawlerforum.com/forums/s3/power-cat-vs-trawler-dilemma-please-advise-25796.html

Some PC owners say their boats suck in beam seas anything over 4’, and I think you will encounter bigger seas than that in the Caribbean.

I looked at a Endeavor 44 pretty hard a few years ago. Wife liked all the living space, but I didn’t like the engine room spaces.

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I don't think beam seas would be a problem in the Caribbean or along the East Coast either... what I want to know along the Pacific Coast..

I run a 32' World Cat and it loves beam seas... I have also watched countless reviews and spoken with surveyors that all say following and beam seas are favorable. Dead-head-on seas are the issue where the don't shine as brightly... and this is even true on my 32'.

I'd like to hear what you noticed as far as engine room access... for a cat, I thought it was good... but not "great".

Well I’m 6’2” so that may have had something to do with the way I thought about it. Plus, it was years ago so I could be misremembering.

If the engine compartments seem roomy enough to you that’s all that matters.

Can only comment on my two experiences on the outside of the West Coast. First was running LA to Seattle in May on a 42' GB. Large head seas all the way except for a day of calm off of Oregon. River bars were closed, so had to stick it out. Running from Seattle to San Diego end of Oct. in a 90' steel research sailboat had head seas all the way down. Never had the sails up. Out of a crew of 5, only the captain and I didn't get seasick so we had to cover other watches. More for us to eat! No beam seas on either trip.

Tator

Tator said:

Can only comment on my two experiences on the outside of the West Coast. First was running LA to Seattle in May on a 42' GB. Large head seas all the way except for a day of calm off of Oregon. River bars were closed, so had to stick it out. Running from Seattle to San Diego end of Oct. in a 90' steel research sailboat had head seas all the way down. Never had the sails up. Out of a crew of 5, only the captain and I didn't get seasick so we had to cover other watches. More for us to eat! No beam seas on either trip.

Tator

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Exactly. People might think swells would hit the Pacific coast in a perpendicular fashion, but that isn't the case. Thus in Spring, going north, we say "going uphill" and in the Fall "going downhill."

Can't comment on how a cat takes these seas but I have done that trip probably 8 times.

all the seas are coming from the west--always a beam sea.

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Shows you that you can't learn everything from reading or looking out from the beach.

We brought a previous boat down to LA from Seattle. We didn’t have beam seas as much as a quarting sea mostly. We had everything from dead calm to 18’ seas. We were in a 46’ trawler, not sure how it would compare to a cat so I cannot say if a cat would be good or not. I was definitely glad that we were going downhill instead of up on that trip.

Gent on our dock has an Endeavor 44, if I see him this weekend I will ask for his feedback and contact info. We are on the East Coast but he has done some significant cruising. Good luck

A few years ago when we were ready to pull the trigger and buy a cruising trawler. this 44 was my boat of choice but, alas, the Admiral did not like the feel of the space. I liked everything about the boat. Some had the option of an RV type rooftop AC unit for the flybridge, I can’t remember if it was also a heating unit but would be a comfortable foul weather helm. We bought a 47’ RPH cockpit trawler which we love but I was on an Endeavour recently and still like it. We were seeing 2003-2005 models for a little over $200k. Some had the genset in a better location than others. Bob was totally gracious when we came to the factory for a tour. Check the website, there were boats for sale by owner when we were searching
Eddie and Gail

Does anyone have any experience with the PDQ 41 or 34? I find them a bit more attractive than the Endeavor Cat.
Best,
Maldwin

We were looking and viewed a PDQ 41 in person. Instant love for almost all aspects of the particular boat but also the design, but way out of our price range. Talk with Rhumb Line though for better help. It also didn't have the range or dimensions we wanted, but apart from that...

Comparing Endeavour 36 to PDQ 34:

-steering, Endeavour enclosed pilothouse with canvas sides.
PDQ, Dual station, Fly Bridge and weather sealed interior stations.

Space, Endeavour 36 wins with three staterooms, larger head and more storage.
Easier for large & stiff people to move around, good live aboard.

Efficiency, PDQ 34 wins with one of the most efficient hulls ever in a production boat. Cruises easily at 15kn and tops at 19-20 with four blade props and 75 or 100 HP Yanmars. Endeavour more like 12kn cruise and 16 tops using 125 Yanmars, (still very good)

Maintenance Access, Endeavour 36 wins (not by much) with hood style lifts in rear staterooms. Easier access to impellers. A bit more hull width helps too. Changing impellers on the PDQ’s requires one to lay over the engine. No big deal if you’re smaller and limber. Cats are characteristically tight in there.

Deck ease of access, both boats have great walkways and almost equal deck space, but the Endeavour offers side exits from the pilothouse while the PDQ is aft exit only from interior station, and steps down from fly bridge to aft deck.

Performance in seas, PDQ wins with higher bridge deck height (less slamming, especially in head seas). Handling is like a sports car but the consequence is the lbs. per inch emersion requires lighter loading than the Endeavour. Cats are generally weight sensitive, and heavy loading will negate the any performance advantage over mono-hull alternatives.

Draft is about the same with half load, but the Endeavour has an advantage in air draft and will probably get you under a few more ICW bridges than the fly bridge equipped PDQ. Equally equipped and similar age, I see the PDQ’s bringing 40-60K more in asking price.

Neither of these boats were manufactured for blue-water ocean crossing, but Bahamas and off shore jaunts are pretty standard for owners of either. Hobby horsing and snap roll will be experienced in short duration rollers and energetic chop.

Endeavour 44 vs. PDQ 41

Efficiency, PDQ 41 wins with probably the most efficient hull of its length in any production boat. Twin 260 Yanmars push the boat to the mid 20’s with easy cruise at 18kn. Endeavour 44 tops in high teens with cruise at 13-14 using 240 or 315 Yanmars.

Machinery Access, perhaps the edge to PDQ for its large, outside hatches, but Endeavour’s hood style lifts under the aft berths offer the advantage of working in all weather. The Genset access goes to the PDQ 41 for its separate, full height generator room in the forward starboard hull. There’s room for two men to work there standing.

Deck ease of Access, as stated above in the PDQ34 vs. Endeavour 36. Both decks and walkways are huge. Edge has to go to Endeavour for it’s side door access, even though the door is canvas.

Performance in seas, the edge goes to the PDQ 41 as it was built, advertised, and sold as a blue water capable boat. Bridge deck height and buoyancy is exceptional. The Endeavour is also a very stout boat and has crossed large bodies of water repeatedly, but the design has a lower bridge deck, subjecting the boat to more slamming and stress in rougher seas. The fact that the Endeavour 44 is also available in a full sail version might indicate the manufacturers confidence in the design to absorb the stresses of blue water conditions. The 44 Endeavour is still being improved and manufactured. Some people had hoped that Pearson (who bought PDQ molds) would offer the 41’ again, but alas, not to be.

Space & Storage, Endeavour offers a three stateroom and two head layout in the 44 as well, but the PDQ offers something no one else has in a unique master stateroom above deck. The greater view has it’s advantages and is well designed, but there are some that prefer their sleeping quarters below deck. It reallly is a matter of preference. When steering from the lower helm, you do need to keep all window blinds and curtains in the stateroom open if you want visibility aft. But you also get unparalleled flow-through ventilation.

Draft, again almost the same depth, but the Endeavour 44 has a serious advantage in air draft. That means nothing for crossing big water in calm seas, but in heavy weather, the Endeavour’s lower profile could matter both at sea and at the dock, not to mention while waiting (or not) for low ICW bridges.

Cost is no comparison. You could pay up to twice as much for a PDQ’41 over a similarly equipped and aged Endeavour 44. You pick.

Excellent write-up and comparison, Larry!

The PDQ 34's are an amazing boat. I spoke with Dick Tushick at length (the owner of Rhumbline Yachts) and was given a full tour of his 34 "Heron".

The 34's truly are amazing hulls. They can cruise all day long at 15 knots effortlessly on the twin 100 hp Yanmars. Some of the older models had twin 75 Yanmars. Lots of space and living area are packed into that boat because of the wide beam.

Dick told me that beam and following seas were taken easily in this boat (even large seas). BUT he did say that the hulls don't like a large HEAD sea and the only remedy is to slow down and "enjoy" the ride. I very much appreciated that insight from him. No hull is perfect and if you think your boat is you're lying to yourself.

I don't know much about the PDQ 41 but if it's a larger version of the 34 then I'd say it's a winner for sure. Lol

Agree. The PDQ 34 is the cream of the crop. Dick Tuschick has been the Ambassador for PDQ since its inception. I also got the pitch from Dick, but it really wasn’t necessary as boat speaks for itself. An overnighter on Dicks boat revealed that I’m to big and stiff for the 34 and too broke for the 41’, otherwise I’d have one.

The Endeavour is offering outboards now. Perhaps not for your cruising plans, but that's my long-term preference. Any thoughts on that?

See my recent post. We love the Endeavour 44 trawler cat. 3’ draft is great. I think it would be great for the Bahamas, but I am not sure I would recommend it for heavy northwest cruising. The 44 handles wave action well, but beam seas do create a rolling action. Limited roll compared to a monohull. We are planning a Bahamas trip next year, and I have no problem with the Gulf Stream crossing.
One thing I was looking for in switching from sail was that if I was going to motor, I wanted to be able to motor at greater than 6 knots if I wanted to. The Endeavour will cruise easily at 9.5 knots, but will get up to 14 at around 3000rpm wit still good fuel burn rate. We recently brought the boat across the gulf from Clearwater to Apalachicola, around 150 miles, in 12 hours

Great comfort and living accomodations

You might want to go into the West Coast forum here, think that's its name. I about to be an expert on something I don't know a whole lot about. Many of the marinas in the Pacific North West and particularly in coastal BC are older. Boating was the primary mode of transportation for "ever" and some of the dock sizes reflect this. So using a Cat up here might be restrictive at some marinas. You will only be able to go into the larger sized ones or the outside ones, which sounds okay until you realize in the summer there can be a shortage of spaces.

If you are bringing your boat to the West Coast and you love boating, then you will definitely be into British Columbia so you might want to give some thought about moorage when visiting. Anchoring won't be a problem obviously.

MOre room on the boat, but gasoline, not diesel. I like the reliability of diesels

Contact member wfleenor he has a power cat currently on the Colombia and planning a trip south to SF. He should be able to help you a little bit. He is also a bit concerned with mooring options on the west coast.
Like any travel on the West Coast, patience is a virtue. We are heading south from Portland in a month from now, and we only go when its nice. But then, we are in no rush and no schedule.
Cheers

Not sure when this inquiry was posted, but as owner of an Endeavour 44 Cat Trawler, I can state that she is not an ocean boat. I have been a sailor for most of my boating life and have crossed the Gulf of Mexico 6 times and sailed a Swan 47 from the BVI to Easton MD, and to the Bahamas. Heavy weather in a well found sailboat is more easily handled because of the hull shape, ballast and steadying effect of the sails. Unless you buy a true offshore motor yacht with stabilizers, you are going to get a lot of roll. The Endeavour has fine entry at the bow but flattens out aft and has an abrupt roll motion in beam seas. Wonderful boat for cruising and loving, great in moderate weather, but I wouldn’t consider heavy ocean weather with her.
Jack Hulse
Endeavour 44 catamaran trawler (Two’s Company”
New Orleans

Hey Jack, great information thank you.
Apart from the roll motion - which I think a lot if not all power cats have on beam seas - what else do you think rules her out of ocean crossing? Weight too high? Bridgedeck clearance? beam? windage? power? tankage? helm position? etc. are just some possibilities that spring to mind...

And by "ocean crossing" I mean routes like RI->Bermuda->Azores->Spain, or Panama->Marquesas.
What would be the minimum conditions that you'd be seriously worried about her?