Proposal for Off-the-deep-end forum

I'd like to make a proposal for OTDE. I propose that it be closed to the creation of new threads, and that the only way a thread gets there is if it gets out of hand elsewhere on TF, and needs to be sent to the back room.


TF is about trawlers and trawlering, not about spew on whatever topics someone wants to spew about. The creation of a new thread in OTDE, is by definition counter to everything that TF represents, encourages, and allows. So why does it exist at all? Well, sometimes well intentioned threads get out of hand and the conversation needs to be taken elsewhere, so it gets moved to OTDE. That seems fine.


But why on earth would we want to invite people to pro-actively start a discussion on TF that is inherently not allowed on TF? All it does is provide a venue for people who want to spew, or antagonize, or otherwise behave in a non-trawler-like manner. There are plenty of other places on the web for people to do that, so I think anyone with OTDE inclinations should simple go elsewhere. This is a trawlering forum.


So what do other think? And what is the position of the forum management?

You have a good idea, but faceless ideologues with keyboards will always spew forth their wisdom...if they don't have the OTDE to vent into, they'll end up doing it somewhere else on TF.

I'd guess 99.99% of my conversations down there were with people so inflexibly dug into their dogma trenches, there was no way to have a back and forth discussion where both sides were open to learn something.

To avoid having those peoples thoughts in my head, I had to put the Harbour Chat forum on 'ignore' (OTDE current topic titles are listed at the bottom of Harbour Chat) because there was no way to put just the OTDE forum on ignore.

My suggestion would be to make OTDE a proper forum (so I don't have to put Harbour Chat on ignore to avoid it) and give instructions on how to use the TF ignore function up front and centre on the top of the first page.

I have heard that OTDE term kicked around here but never visited that area of the forum before. When I tried just now, I only saw one topic (started by me [emoji15]— whoops!) but was not able to access the thread. So, am I doing it wrong? Does this area require special privileges?

But I agree with you, why is this OTDE area even needed? We don’t need more divisive, argumentative threads IMO.

MurrayM said:

You have a good idea, but faceless ideologues with keyboards will always spew forth their wisdom...if they don't have the OTDE to vent into, they'll end up doing it somewhere else on TF.

Click to expand...

I think regular rules can be applied to anyone bringing inappropriate content to regular TF, and they can be banned if they don't behave. No changes needed in that respect, just normal operating procedure.

twistedtree said:

I'd like to make a proposal for OTDE. I propose that it be closed to the creation of new threads, and that the only way a thread gets there is if it gets out of hand elsewhere on TF, and needs to be sent to the back room.

Click to expand...

David

Greetings,
Mr. tt. EXCELLENT suggestion! I'm for FOR the suggested proposal! One can still post and discuss "controversial" topics in Harbor Chat with the advisory that banishment to OTDE will occur IF anyone gets nasty. The Cannibus thread is a good example of an interesting topic that has remained civil, thus far.

OTDE is easy to avoid.

Just don’t go there.

twistedtree said:

I think regular rules can be applied to anyone bringing inappropriate content to regular TF, and they can be banned if they don't behave. No changes needed in that respect, just normal operating procedure.

Click to expand...

We'd have to ask the moderators how often they had to put out brush fires before OTDE, compared to after OTDE.

My guess is they were much busier before OTDE because the soap box shouters just can't stop themselves and would do it anywhere.

Many forums have sections like OTDE, I suppose to give a place to discuss contentious topics. It is true that they tend to be dominated by a few individuals who think that other people actually care about their opinions. However, sometimes topics that might affect boating don't really belong elsewhere so OTDE is the place they end up. I'm thinking about topics like guns, or global warming, or why Australians believe Vegemite tastes like anything other than what you find in a drain pipe. In any case, free speech has its virtues and no one is forced to read it, so why worry about it?

After looking a few times I now simply ignore ODTE. If the thread has gone there it's not worth looking for, to me.

ksanders said:

OTDE is easy to avoid.

Just don’t go there.

Click to expand...

Agree. I’ve never been there so don’t have a perspective or opinion. The only reason I go on to TF is to exchange info about our Trawler based interests.

cardude01 said:

I have heard that OTDE term kicked around here but never visited that area of the forum before. When I tried just now, I only saw one topic (started by me [emoji15]— whoops!) but was not able to access the thread. So, am I doing it wrong? Does this area require special privileges?

Click to expand...

I have the same issue. There is only one thread which I initiated (not in OTDE) but I don't have permissions to access it.

I don't go there so doesn't bother me, but share Twisted's view. Why should be create any place for divisive discussion that has absolutely nothing to do with boating. It is one thing if people want to argue some environmental water bill in Oregon but creating a forum for hate to be spewed just makes no sense. And to say it's so we could move threads there when people get out of hand, we shouldn't move those threads, but delete them, and if we have those who can't come here without discussing politics, then invite them to go elsewhere. Many of the discussions have no place in our society, but certainly no place on TF. Can't we get into enough fights on boating issues without engaging in them on political, social and religious issues?

And for anyone who thinks for a moment that words don't harm, I don't know anything to say to you.

Some very smart people reside on OTDE. But once it got into wishing others were dead, outright fabrications and lies and seeing the strange ways otherwise sane people think - I said enough.

For those who have not ventured there, you should. Kinda hard to know what to accept or reject without a bit of insight on the subject material. Plus it reveals a lot about character of the "normal" thread posters.

All said, Peter's starting post should be carefully thought about. Of course OTDE does represent a revenue stream

I remember the days before OTDE.

We threw some smelly tomatoes to be sure and when OTDE started I said to myself “well I’ll check it out later”. That time never came. Just didn’t have the interest. Now I have even less interest. I did make a Harbor Chat post recently. Need to follow up on that too.

My biggest complaint now is that TF is a bit boring. Too many topics that have gone around the horn too many times. And now so many more people to answer questions.

I actually do more boating stuff on FB now. Builders forums ect. WAY different than TF but some things are the same like the notion that one needs epoxy to build a boat. But my forum time is much more spread out. I like the pics and stories about converting sailboats to trawlers. And the super simple boats built from mostly ingenuity and not plans. And some old traditional stuff like Chesapeke Deadrise boats built in an open shed down south.

But I’ve got a lot of roots here from 07 and probably will always “drop in”.

sunchaser said:

Some very smart people reside on OTDE. But once it got into wishing others were dead, outright fabrications and lies and seeing the strange ways otherwise sane people think - I said enough.

For those who have not ventured there, you should. Kinda hard to know what to accept or reject without a bit of insight on the subject material. Plus it reveals a lot about character of the "normal" thread posters.

All said, Peter's starting post should be carefully thought about. Of course OTDE does represent a revenue stream

Click to expand...

I saw enough of that in threads before they were taken to OTDE. I realize that in any group there will be some with extreme views. However, I'd rather not know that about my fellow TF'ers. I don't want to know the character that is revealed. I'm not going to change them and they're not going to change my views.

If I want to read about the hate that is so pervasive today, I can go plenty of other places to do so. Boating is an escape from all that and TF should also be such an escape.

I agree with Twisted and B&B

MurrayM said:

We'd have to ask the moderators how often they had to put out brush fires before OTDE, compared to after OTDE.

My guess is they were much busier before OTDE because the soap box shouters just can't stop themselves and would do it anywhere.

Click to expand...

If people can't control themselves, then they should leave, or be escorted to the door. I just see no reason why we should encourage/enable them, and that's what posting on OTDE does.

Nomad Willy said:

I remember the days before OTDE.

We threw some smelly tomatoes to be sure and when OTDE started I said to myself “well I’ll check it out later”. That time never came. Just didn’t have the interest. Now I have even less interest. I did make a Harbor Chat post recently. Need to follow up on that too.

My biggest complaint now is that TF is a bit boring. Too many topics that have gone around the horn too many times. And now so many more people to answer questions.

I actually do more boating stuff on FB now. Builders forums ect. WAY different than TF but some things are the same like the notion that one needs epoxy to build a boat. But my forum time is much more spread out. I like the pics and stories about converting sailboats to trawlers. And the super simple boats built from mostly ingenuity and not plans. And some old traditional stuff like Chesapeke Deadrise boats built in an open shed down south.

But I’ve got a lot of roots here from 07 and probably will always “drop in”.

Click to expand...

You could not pay me enough to discuss much of anything especially boats on FB. Instagram has some pretty cool pictures and it can be a non-stop pictorial of stuff I particularly enjoy in my declining years. And I can look at the pictures in a larger format too.

Reading is for good eyed and younger folks too, which is not me either. So long threads with a lot of well written stuff lasting pages have long past for me. I do appreciate that people do that the time to create those types of threads..

As it relates to people with strong opinions, well that does not really bother me when it comes to politics. I can move right along and totally ignore those types of posts. Unlike one previous post on this topic, I don't really judge someone because of their political beliefs.


This is different from wanting to spend my days with someone listening to a rant about politics and political positions. That and religion is not something that is worth a lot of effort and time discussing either in the current climate. So its best to let opinions roll off my back and move along to more pressing matters like the weather and if I can get out on the water in comfort.

Thus far, I have not ventured to the OTDE. I have a feeling it's like heroin (which I haven't tried either), highly addictive and likely to end badly. Think I will remain ignorant of its virtues.

Ted

OTDE.. It is great entertainment.. You only go there on purpose, hard to get there accidentally.

Never been there, never had a desire to go there. At the Ft Pierce gathering Larry mentioned it to me but it didn’t sound like a good place to be. I don’t go to BookFace either as I don’t like social media and what people can find out about you. I read four papers a day and get all the nastyness I need.

O C Diver said:

Think I will remain ignorant of its virtues.

Ted

Click to expand...

It has no virtues, Ted.

I agree with twistedtree, bandb and others who believe hate speech, threats and savaging people who don’t agree with you have no place on any boating forum, no matter how far you have to drill down for it. It’s irrelevant that you have to sign in or go looking for OTDE content; TF shouldn’t be providing a platform for it. There are plenty of online rocks out there to look under for folks who need to be entertained by watching people dehumanize one another.

In this case, freedom of speech is unusually painful due to the false courage to speak freely provided by:

1. the blind anonymity of forum posting (and the false courage it fosters)
2. who knows what drug/alcohol influence (and the false wisdom it fosters)
3. social peccadilloes (and the false persona it fosters).
4. and a private platform that allows it.

IMO, it speaks volumes about the poster. It also speaks volumes about the platform.

THEN, there's the other side of TF. Those are the folks you'll meet at TF gatherings. They're real and they're real nice. I've met many and all, with the exception of one or two, are folks I'd be proud to call my friend. That's the way we like here. That's the way we roll on TF.

Sometimes it's better to never look into the sewer. But, when it comes right down to it, it would be much uglier if you don't have the sewer pipe at all...and there'd be no avoiding it.

Cheers to real TFers.












PS. OK, be honest...how many tried to click the underlined "real TFers" to see if you made the list?

twistedtree said:

I'd like to make a proposal for OTDE. I propose that it be closed to the creation of new threads, and that the only way a thread gets there is if it gets out of hand elsewhere on TF, and needs to be sent to the back room.


TF is about trawlers and trawlering, not about spew on whatever topics someone wants to spew about. The creation of a new thread in OTDE, is by definition counter to everything that TF represents, encourages, and allows. So why does it exist at all? Well, sometimes well intentioned threads get out of hand and the conversation needs to be taken elsewhere, so it gets moved to OTDE. That seems fine.


But why on earth would we want to invite people to pro-actively start a discussion on TF that is inherently not allowed on TF? All it does is provide a venue for people who want to spew, or antagonize, or otherwise behave in a non-trawler-like manner. There are plenty of other places on the web for people to do that, so I think anyone with OTDE inclinations should simple go elsewhere. This is a trawlering forum.


So what do other think? And what is the position of the forum management?

Click to expand...

The way I look at it is it keeps many otherwise unacceptable posts out of the mainstream. If it's not there I'll bet at least in the short term the mods will be busy moving threads - the OTDE posters won't go away easy or quietly IMO
Why move objectionable posts there? that encourages members with that bent to start a post elsewhere expecting it will be moved - If we don't want it then stop it all together and delete anything objectionable or questionable

To the last highlight - exactly - it provides an outlet for those inclined to vent, spew, etc.

Id be OK w/ doing away with it and tightening up on the rules but that means even the Humor thread has to go as it sometimes crosses the line... but makes many of us chuckle or even LOL.

Al, I think you are laying the groundwork for more booze and food at Ft. Pierce this year.

[emoji106][emoji106]

Well said Flyright!

TF is a business. Other boating websites have their version of OTDE. Doubtful the TF owners would want to lose the ad revenues that could potentially result from fewer hits.

The bigger thought as tossed out by Flywright and others seems to be ignore our local fruit cakes. Unfortunately though families get judged by their worst offspring. When seasoned boaters like Eric prefer Facebook combined with the paucity of experienced boating professionals regularly posting on TF, this site seems fitting with the times, frivolous for us generalists.

FlyWright said:

It has no virtues, Ted.

Click to expand...

I suggest it does have one virtue, and one we have kept coming back to over the years, and I've been on here some ten years. And that is it is a place in which to sequester those who have a tendency to start and/or post to contentious threads, and a place to which threads that have become contentious can be diverted. I mention this point specifically because deletion or closing a thread often upsets some who were following it and participating - often trying to stick to the main point of debate in a reasonably responsible manner, and sometimes the subject had some merit, even if not boating orientated. After all, even though a shared love of boating draws us here, we are not one dimensional folk, are we? We do have views on other issues.

So, OTDE is really, in my view, a place which I suspect we would be forced to re-invent if abolished altogether, or to which we would be forced to divert more and more threads, if the suggestion made by the OP, (which I admit sounds excellent at first glance), was to be adopted.

I have posted this because although the first rule of moderation is that it is not discussed on open forum, this issue is really not such a discussion, but a serious suggestion re the structure and function of the forum. As such, I feel, as have some other fellow moderators, it does demand some response from those of us given the responsibility of day to day management, because of the implications of the suggestion from the OP.