Bilge Pump Type/Configuration

Prepping a relatively new-to-me Pilgrim 40 for an extended transit from Lake MI through the GLAKES next year to New England waters. Boat currently has an electric bilge pump with float switch alarm and a manual Gusher and separate hoses stowed in an aft hatch. Considering whether it might be prudent to add a more robust permanently installed-and-plumbed manual pump as a backup.


Thoughts?

Have you considered installing a second, and independent, electrical bilge pump? This would free you up to stop the water ingress rather than hand-pumping forever.

Edit: Welcome to the forum!

Giggitoni said:

Have you considered installing a second, and independent, electrical bilge pump? This would free you up to stop the water ingress rather than hand-pumping forever.

Edit: Welcome to the forum!

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X2
Add a 3700 gph bilge pump. That’s a 5 gallon bucket every minute. It can be pumping away while you try to stop the inflow.

Welcome! Tell us more about you, your boat, and your plans when you can. And post pictures! That post is better done in Welcome Mat.

Don't be like Robert Redford (in All is Lost) where he is whittling down a broom handle for a gusher pump handle while water is coming aboard. Grab anything to stick in the hole to slow the ingress of water. That move should be called what not to do to save yourself.

Good suggestions re a bigger independent electric pump - thanks to all. Still thinking in terms of the 27' sloop I'm 'graduating' from, with an electric BP with an installed manual pump.
Joe

High Wire said:

X2
Add a 3700 gph bilge pump. That’s a 5 gallon bucket every minute. It can be pumping away while you try to stop the inflow.

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Your math is off a little bit. 3,700 GPH is about 61 GPM. A 5 gallon bucked every 5 seconds.

Ted

My recommendation is 2 automatic smaller pumps and 1 large pump. Consider a failure of your automatic pump. How will you know? First pump should be lower and always the first pump on. Second pump should only come on after a failure of the first pump or excessive flooding. The second pump should have an alarm or beeper telling you there is a problem, check your bilge. 3rd pump should be large and the last resort. Whether automatic or manual is up to you.

Ted

O C Diver said:

Your math is off a little bit. 3,700 GPH is about 61 GPM. A 5 gallon bucked every 5 seconds.

Ted

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Yes I didn’t use paper and work it out. Assuming only 3000 gallon per hour actually pumped, that is 10 five gallon buckets per minute not one.
The best hand pump with a team of humans won’t match that.

Beware of "flipper" type switches which for me(and some others) have a history of failure,"no external moving parts" type are way better imo. Eg,the Johnson Ultima switch.

I’m not a big fan of manual pumps. The problem is that they take a crew member away that could be better used slowing the incoming water. They are also no help if you’re not on the boat.

Install at least two more electric pumps. Ted’s suggestion sounds good.

If you have extra crew, they can play with the manual pump you already have.

Yes - more is better.

I expect the primary (lowest) bilge pump and/or switch to fail. It is often sitting in dirty water at the bottom of the bilge with stray dropped bolts, pistachio shells, cable tie cuttoffs and dog hair.
Have another big auto pump high & dry & clean with an alarm. This one will save your butt when the first one fails.

Having an alarm warns you long before you notice a light on a switch panel. The sooner you start on flooding the better your chances at controlling it in time.
I have a large, old wood boat and carry several emergency pumps, plumbed in and ready to go. I've never had to use them, it's a good hull, but one never knows...

"Your math is off a little bit. 3,700 GPH is about 61 GPM. A 5 gallon bucked every 5 seconds."

The pump folks usually figure their output with NO lift.

Add 10ft of lift, 15 ft of hoses , and a couple of elbows and the results may be half the claimed number.


A pail and a watch is always an interesting proof.


If you have a good sized inverter you might consider a basement sump pump , big amps of DC to make 10-12A of 120V , but they really pump, 5 or 10 times as much.

Should you have "bestitis" an engine driven 2 inch pump is over 100 G per min, and could be used as a fire pump with little extra cost.

Rule says their 3700 will pump 2900 gph with 1 meter head.
2450 gph with 2 meter head.

Put a bronze T in the raw water hose just after the thru hull but before the raw water pump. Add a ball valve and hose barb. Run a hose into the bilge. Close the sea cock and open the ball valve with engine running and you can pump a lot of water in a pinch.

Has anyone ever computed how fast an engine water pump could empty a five gallon bucket of water? The ones I've messed with were fairly low volume, when compared to a real trash / dewatering pump. I guess the good thing is that it will help, perhaps better than a failing DC powered pump, as long as it doesn't run dry accidentally.

If you have a decent boat, I think it is cheap insurance to buy a decent dewatering pump. I'm a big fan of fastflow driveshaft pumps, but also like their hydraulic pumps as well. No affiliation, just a fan.

“Has anyone ever computed how fast an engine water pump could empty a five gallon bucket of water?”

To winterize my engine I stick said hose into a 5 gallon bucket. I never timed it but my Yanmar made quick work of it. This year it will be a Lehman. I’ll try to think to time it.

If I remember when I winterize my SP225s it takes about a minute to pump a 5 gallon bucket into the engine. I am going to be hauling and winterizing the engines Friday, if I can remember, I will time it.

Great call on the Y valve after the raw water intake. That’s my 4th method of dewatering the boat. (2 electric and one manual gusher). That being said, I have an inch and half belt driven bronze Johnson pump I have been planning to install. My Lehman has an extra spot for a belt.

I did want to post about something I learned this year about switches. I might be wrong, you may have had the best luck with them, but the Johnson ultima switch is a certain liability.

I converted over from rule switches because I had to replace them every 3 years or so. Not a big deal (when the primary would fail, the secondary pump, higher up, would work, ( I could see the residual water level was higher than normal and know a switch went)

I converted over to ultima switches this year and had one fail right after the other. I replaced both primary and secondary 2xs each before putting rules back in. (I still have a fresh one in the package that I could not stomach putting in, so if you want it, you can has the POS)

I took the last one apart and it has water intrusion. (Can you believe that!). Godamn bilge switch has water intrusion. I heard this might be a problem and it was. Just a damn shame since I really wanted to get away from the flipper type switches.

Just my 2cents.

.

My Johnson ultimas have been flawless for 3 years...maybe their quality control has slipped.

Just yesterday, I finished a bilge pump update on Smartini. Had a Rule 3700 GPH pump w/ a float switch, and a one-way valve in the outlet hose. I have:
- removed the one-way valve.
- installed a Whale Smart 650 gph pump w/ a totally contained water sensing switch, with a one-way valve in the outlet
- installed a 3-way switch for both (Off / Auto / Manual)

I shut the pumps off, filled the bilge with water (about 5 gallons or so) and turned them on. It was empty in 5 seconds, but then the water in the outlet hose of the Rule 3700 ran back into the bilge, and it took about 25 more seconds for the smaller pump to empty it.

So now I have a small pump that will extract all but about 1/3" of water, which should be the only pump that ever comes on. If it fails, or can't keep up with a leak of some sort, the two together can clear about 1 gallon per second. I'm happy!

Alisske said:

I converted over to Ultima switches this year and had one fail right after the other. I replaced both primary and secondary 2xs each before putting rules back in. (I still have a fresh one in the package that I could not stomach putting in, so if you want it, you can has the POS)
I took the last one apart and it has water intrusion. (Can you believe that!). Goddamn bilge switch has water intrusion. ... Just a damn shame since I really wanted to get away from the flipper type switches.

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I too changed to the Ultima, same reason, defective flipper switches. Mine has functioned flawlessly for 4 years. Maybe a defective batch, you should request replacement or refund.

Off thread and a bit off subject, but re float switches, a few years ago I was putzing around below in my sailboat during spring commissioning. A few inches of water in the bilge when I pulled up the floor boards so I went to the panel and flipped on the pump switch. There was an immediate small explosion and, when my heart started again, the cabin had small bits of black plastic and dirty water everywhere. The float switch had literally exploded. Fortunately, no shrapnel wounds.


There was no visible sign of any fuel seepage (it's diesel) in the bilge, before or after the explosion and I never figured out what happened. Only suspicion is that bilgewater froze over the winter, cracked the switch, and there was just enough trace fuel or other pollution in the water when it thawed to set up a volatile mixture inside the switch.

It was a West Marine cheapy, since replaced with a Rule - and I now remove it from the bilge every winter.
Joe

Pilgrim bilge pumps

We have Pilgrim 40 hull #11, Dreamboat Annie. I put in a second bilge pump several years ago. For all her life until then she just had the one pump under the shaft log at the end of the bilge. The second pump is on the front of the wall that drops to the lower bilge under the Aquadrive and the iron brace across that supports the shaft. The second pump is mounted approximately 6 inches higher than the main bilge. The original pump is wired to a circuit breaker on the main panel (in the pilot house) and can be turned on and off - not necessarily good. The backup pump is wired so that it is always on, except when the boat is pulled for the winter - there is a dedicated, discrete toggle switch in the basement that has to be purposely turned off. There is also an alarm from the second pump at the panel. If water has reached that second pump, you need to get busy!

I do have a Gusher manual pump with a lot of flexible plastic hose to reach the bilge and go overboard, but I agree with others that it would be better timewise to address the leak than to attempt to get out the manual arrangement and set that up.

Have you joined the Pilgrim Owners Group? It's online through Wiki. It's a wonderful resource for Pilgrims, with some highly knowledgeable members who respond with valuable advice.

Great boats! Ted Gozzard made a terrific trawler. We are fortunate to own one, as less than 50 were made.

Dont forget that, on most boats under 30', a manual pump or a "bailer" (or a 5 gal bucket) are required.

West Marine sells a manual pump that draws water on both the upstroke and downstroke. The downside is that these pumps often don't have enough hose to reach overboard. I extended mine with a 10' length of shop-vac type hose.

You might think it would be better to spend your time on finding the leak, but that can be difficult to do with a foot or more of water in the bilge.

The Y-valve installation on the engine is an excellent back-up to elect/manual bilge pumps

Ultra switches. Cost more, but you’ll never have to buy another one.

CapnCrunch said:

Dont forget that, on most boats under 30', a manual pump or a "bailer" (or a 5 gal bucket) are required.

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Not required by the USCG. Maybe a State reg somewhere. The USCG Auxiliary Vessel Safety Check requires a manual means but that is not law. You simply do not get a decal.

High Wire said:

Not required by the USCG. Maybe a State reg somewhere. The USCG Auxiliary Vessel Safety Check requires a manual means but that is not law. You simply do not get a decal.

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Oops! Turns out thats a Canadian regulation. My bad.

High Wire said:

Not required by the USCG. Maybe a State reg somewhere. The USCG Auxiliary Vessel Safety Check requires a manual means but that is not law. You simply do not get a decal.

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My boat has one as a factory install. It really is pretty effective on the few times I have tested it.