Road Rage on the water-- from a go fast

I enjoy your forum and view it regularly. Your last thread about road rage on the water I found to be so offensive to the point I registered just to make this post. I own a 39' Hatteras with punched up engines with my cousin. We enjoy running it and running it fast. We cruise in the upper twenties. I can assure all of you, bad boat manners are not limited to faster boats. We operate our boat properly and courteously. We are from here, people know us and we use discretion accordingly. I hold a 50 T Master License, even made a living as a captain for a while if you want to call it a living.

I find most "Poke Boats" are belligerent. They hog the middle of a narrow channel, force you over unnecessarily, totally disregard any horn signals and in for the most part are a pain in the a**. In my training, I saw no mention that Inland and International Rules specify that "Poke Boats" are exempt form the same rules the rest of us adhere to. There are those trawlers that operate properly with good seamanship that I am happy to share water with.

You can poke over the waterway all you want bragging about your fuel consumption. Big trawlers in my marina don't get that great of fuel mileage. I pay some premium for for our speed. I can be at cruising destinations in 3 hours that "Poke Boats" will take all day and then some to get to.

Like the old saying---"Those in glass houses shouldnt throw rocks"

St. Simons Island GA

-- Edited by Ragbagger at 20:37, 2007-12-05

-- Edited by Ragbagger at 20:41, 2007-12-05

-- Edited by Ragbagger at 20:43, 2007-12-05

Ragbagger
Please don't be offended. I don't think anyone truly meant to stereotype us go fasters, they meant simply to rag on those of a less courteous nature. We only remember the annoying individuals in our lives. Hence in my neck of the woods, negative reference toward a certain mass builder of more economical yachts B-------, is used for any idiot perpetrating evils on the water. As one who often cruises at fifteen knots (sometimes wish I could go faster), I was also a little perturbed by the references to fast boats as well. We all need to remember that idiots come in all sizes, shapes and boat styles (referencing offensive boaters, not the posters on our site).
Oh, by the way, welcome, and please let us hear more from you in the future. Also remember that this is a trawler site, and they are pretty sensitive about the fact that you and I always get better moorage opportunity by arriving earlier.



-- Edited by Carey at 21:30, 2007-12-05

Ragbagger,

Nice boat! You'll beat me to the fish for sure with that one!

I will put money on the fact that my boat will have used less diesel than yours once we are both at the same destination.

I might put money on a little fishing contest as well, heres my record sea bass.

-C

Ragbagger---

We judge people by the experiences we have with them. I have had people with boats not unlike yours pass me going twenty-plus knots about two boat lengths away. We've got a 28,000 pound boat and their wake seems like it will put us on our beam ends if we can't get headed into it quick enough. They pass other boats on the bay the same way, so I know it isn't personal

In this area, I see this kind of behavior far more than I see boaters with these kinds of boats express consideration or adhere to the rules of the road as you say you do. Since that is predominantly what we see, it's an easy jump to thinking that most owners of these types of boats are this way.

Intellectually I know there are considerate fast-boat drivers out there. But since I almost never see any, it's easy to paint all fast-boaters with the same brush. The same way you paint all "Poke Boat" drivers with the same brush.

I have found that a lot of boaters, regardless of the type or speed of their boats, are like dogs in that they truly believe that what they can't see doesn't exist. I can only assume they never look behind them to see what their wake might be doing to other boats, docks, etc. as I can't imagine someone seeing that and not realizing that maybe they ought to slow down. To them, their wakes apparently do not exist. Perhaps the dog analogy is not accurate--- it's probably that many boaters view running a boat as no different than running a car, and there's no need to look behind us while driving, so why do so while driving a boat?

There is one thing I have no patience or tolerance of, and that's a person who refuses to take responsibility for their actions and operates their boat (car, plane, motorcycle, lawn mower) accordingly. The fact is that in this area--- I can't pretend to speak for your area--- I see FAR more irresponsible boaters in fast boats, be they high-powered dinghies or fifty-foot cruisers, than I see irresponsible slow boaters, power or sail. Until that ratio changes, I'm going to assume that every fast boat I see has an irresponsible person at the helm and take whatever precautions are necessary or possible. So far, over the nine years we've been doing this kind of boating, my assumption almost always proves to be correct.

Hello Ragbagger!* Welcome to TrawlerForum!* We love ALL boaters!

I think that everyone here is, or should be, familiar with navagation Rule 13 on Overtaking.* However, your quote...

" I find most "Poke Boats" are belligerent. They hog the middle of a narrow channel, force you over unnecessarily, totally disregard any horn signals"

I suspect is because of the Poke Boats using Rule 9(e) just to annoy you....

(i)** In a narrow channel or fairway when overtaking can take place only if the vessel to be overtaken has to take action to permit safe passing, the vessel intending to overtake shall indicate her intention by sounding the appropriate signal prescribed in Rule 34(c)(i). The vessel to be overtaken shall, if in agreement, sound the appropriate signal prescribed in Rule 34(c)(ii) and take steps to permit safe passing. If in doubt she may sound the signals prescribed in Rule 34(d).

note the words IF IN AGREEMENT.* Since they didn't respond, they were probably deaf and blind.* Sometimes it seems 95% of all boaters are deaf and blind.

Again, welcome to TrawlerForum!* Please keep posting, most of the members here are just jealous that their boats are not as fast as yours!* I know I am!

Ragbagger was offended. Who cares? Show me in the Bill of Rights or the Constitution where it promises that people will never have to suffer the indignity of being offended.

He's upset with being lumped in with the crowd referred to as "go fast" yet he owns a "go fast" boat. (If it walks like a duck, quacks like a duck, and looks like a duck..........) He then goes on to lump all "poke boat" owners into a group of "belligerent hogs" who ignore the rules of the road at will.

As anyone with the ability for critical thinking will see, he's not any more immune from making sweeping generalizations than the rest of us.

Ragbagger, you're offended. Who cares! Grow up; deal with it. It wasn't aimed at you personally and you're turning the conversation from a serious subject (inconsiderate and even dangerous behaviour on the water) to an inconsequential rant about your overly sensitve reaction.

If it's any comfort to you I also own a "go fast" boat. I prove my consideration of other boaters and my knowledge of boating rules by my actions on the water NOT by yelling at them.

Ragbagger wrote:



I enjoy your forum and view it regularly. Your last thread about road rage on the water I found to be so offensive to the point I registered just to make this post. I own a 39' Hatteras with punched up engines with my cousin. We enjoy running it and running it fast. We cruise in the upper twenties. I can assure all of you, bad boat manners are not limited to faster boats. We operate our boat properly and courteously. We are from here, people know us and we use discretion accordingly. I hold a 50 T Master License, even made a living as a captain for a while if you want to call it a living.

I find most "Poke Boats" are belligerent. They hog the middle of a narrow channel, force you over unnecessarily, totally disregard any horn signals and in for the most part are a pain in the a**. In my training, I saw no mention that Inland and International Rules specify that "Poke Boats" are exempt form the same rules the rest of us adhere to. There are those trawlers that operate properly with good seamanship that I am happy to share water with.

You can poke over the waterway all you want bragging about your fuel consumption. Big trawlers in my marina don't get that great of fuel mileage. I pay some premium for for our speed. I can be at cruising destinations in 3 hours that "Poke Boats" will take all day and then some to get to.

Like the old saying---"Those in glass houses shouldnt throw rocks"

St. Simons Island GA

-- Edited by Ragbagger at 20:37, 2007-12-05

-- Edited by Ragbagger at 20:41, 2007-12-05

-- Edited by Ragbagger at 20:43, 2007-12-05

Click to expand...

Poke Boats is a new one, Stink Pot is normally what we are called around GalvestonBay. What else do you call trawlers? The list is endless for sailboats rag flappers, snail boats, wind fairys, blow boats.

*
I see your point, I think the problem is the lack of knowledge by most boaters.

Please do not take my post remarks to seriously as most are meant to be informative but on the light side.* Since my post seems to be the one that started it, I was not lumps all semi displacement/planning boats. OK maybe I was? )-; I was pointing out that the majority seem to pass at a very close distance and throwing out a large wake.* 90% of the time when I see/notice a boat with the bow up and the stern down, I take evasive action and let people know to hang on.* My point was just be aware of the wake and what damage it could do.

*
Now I will admit that us, Poke Boats, new term, which does fit, share the blame, especially us deep draft and larger boats as we do tend to stay close to the center where the deeper channel is, and many times we do not respond.* I would not get ½ as upset if at least they would slow down to reduce the wake, but very few do.* The thing I do not get is usually we run a very straight heading usually on auto pilot poking along at 7 knots which should give the go fast plenty to alter their course enough that their wake will dissipate. Further more common sense should tell them to slow down in a narrow channel.*

*
So now the Eagle is a terrible slow, ugly, poke boat, dock queen, Taiwan trawler. *Thats getting to be a mouth full. *)-;*With a name*like Ragbagger I would ha e expect you to be a poke boat.* (-; *Anyway, do take comments to seriously!

*

Mr wonta go fast Ragdagger;Gods gift to the water ways,
By the pitcher you post it looks like you are bigging a deep hole in the water
maybe you need bigger engs.
i notice you said you were kind to other boaters where you are from, is that
becouse where you are HUMMMM.
Captain C.
And wes you afend. me

>

Phil/Fill, you will never get a wake free pass at 7kts. That was my point on the other post. If the passer slows down to 8kts, he will most likely be giving you some wake and most of us(you included) are too impatient to suffer thru a 1kt overtake passing situation. It would take literally about 15 minutes(or more) which would seem like forever. So the passer gets a little impatient and pushes it up to 9kts....now we're making considerable wake....almost maximum wake and we have only cut the maneuver down to 7.5 minutes.....still impatience rules so the speed is pushed and you get your fist shaking ignorant one finger saluting go fast boat scenario. If you see someone slow down to pass you with no wake, return the favor by slowing to minimum steerage and if there are no obstructions, take it to idle. It will take the maneuver down to about a minute....something everyone can live with.

BTW, the term "go fast" boat is more suited to boats built primarily to go fast....like Scarabs, etc. Penis extenders is what my fiance calls them. That is a whole different animal. SO just because my boat will cruise at 16kts, I will be offended if you call me a "go fast" boat!

John---

How about "Go Faster" boat?

If you're 7kts or above, you're "going faster" than I am.

Well then at eight knots I guess have a "go fast-er" boat. So if I ever encounter you, Doug, I'll be sure to pass you at cruise speed a maximum of two boat lengths away, then cut you off, swamp any kayakers that happen to be nearby, and never look behind me. Do you think that will get me accepted by the go-faster crowd?

I would practice my newly acquired set of "go faster" rules on Carey the next time we're out together but he can run maximum-wake circles around me and probably would if I tried some dumb-ass stunt in his vicinity.

Marin, lets you and I drag race up to 8 knots. Whoever gets there first receives a case of their favorite beer from the losing party. We can post all of the exciting footage on youtube =)

-C

I dunno..... your boat looks awfully quick.

GOOD MORNING
Mr Baker That was A very good Post to Phill/Fill,I have noTice that if I slow
the boats that I captain down and slid it out of gear, thay all most puts out no wake at all.
Ha your pitcher you post, I inlaraged it and now I sea . Its you and A goust.
HA ITS ALL GOOD EVEN THAT STANKY PART.
SEA YA
CAPTAIN C.

Marin, you were quoted as saying.......

"I'll be sure to pass you at cruise speed a maximum of two boat lengths away, then cut you off, swamp any kayakers that happen to be nearby, and never look behind me."

You forgot 2 things:

1. The 140db SPL @ 100ft stereo system blaring "Baby got Back!"
2. The "Babe's with Back" in thong bikinis

!

Doug---

I guess I'm doomed to be an outcast from the Go Faster group then. Our stereo is pretty pathetic and I'd be in serious trouble if I tried to populate the boat with babes in thongs. Oh well, it was a nice dream......

I dont expect to be waked free, its the distance they pass by that is the main concern/problem.* I mean the Puget Sound is like 1 to 2 miles across but the majority will pass by so close that there is not enough to turn into the wave.* At least pass by with enough distance the wake can dissipate and/or the other boat has time to turning into the wave. **Either, slow down or give some distance.

*
Ok, so semi displacement/planing boats may not be penis extenders but certainly must make them bigger.* (-;*

*
I installed two 100 watt Pioneer Stereos which driving 4 out side speakers and piped through out the boat.* I did it for two reasons the Lake Union Fire works as coordinated with music broadcasted over the radio, but the real reason we can blast/drown out 99.9% of the stereo systems on boats.* **If someone plays their music to loud, I put on some old country songs with the twang which usually shuts them up.* I love Shania Twain, and my favorite song is Man I feel like a Woman! *

*
As for passing by to goggle, if they only knew?* ^^^^^(-;

*

We're kind of lucky down here in SoCal, as there aren't too many places other than open ocean to go fast.* A good chunk of LA Harbor is no wake, and though SD Bay doesn't have too many speed limits, there's ample room to pass in most places.

That said, even out in the ocean, I try to give slower vessels (i.e., trawlers, fishermen, sail boats, etc.) plenty of leeway as I go by.* We typically cruise at around 10.5 kts (1200 RPM), and that still kicks up a wake.* However, it is the Pacific Ocean, and other vessels have more to worry about than my wake.

Then again, you get the occasional (and assinine, IMHO) event like paddle boarders crossing from Marina del Rey to Catalina (over 20 st. miles), and even though we're over 1/2 mile away, we still get bitched at on the VHF by the escort boats about "showing the paddle boarders some consideration".* I had to really control my temper to keep myself from running up to 2k RPM (19 kts.) and kicking up a wake the paddle boarders could surf on.* Of course, the 76 gph I'd burn at that speed helped keep my temper in check

My major beef is the Catalina Flyer pilots... but that's an entirely different topic.

>Phil/Fill, you will never get a wake free pass at 7kts
Exactally!

For background, I come from a sportfish heritage. That being said, to me it is unreasonable for a "Poke Boat" to expect me to slow down from my preferred cruising speed for 10-15 minutes just to avoid waking them for 10-15 seconds. To me, that is a rediculous request.

Instead, I usually try to hail the boat when overtaking, and request they slow down for a comfortable pass we all can live with. There's nothing that gets my gall as compared to my being courtous and slowing to pass, only to have the trawler continue at 7-8 knots. In order to pass that person, I would need to be doing 10-11 knots, and throwing the worst wake possible. If they expect me to be courteous and change from my preffered cruise, they need to be half of the solution. I'm doing it for them, anyway.

I expect a trawler to be able to take a reasonable wake(not a 35 degree roll, but maybe a 15 deg roll), and have their equipment stowed properly. I also operate a 23' center console, and even in that little boat I don't expect go fast boats to slow down all the time. I just don't complain and point into their wake.

Wade - hoping to own a trawler soon