Durabak over teak decks see through?

I'm loooking at a boat that had cream colored Durabak put on directly over the teak decks 6 years ago.* The teak shows through.* Is this normal?

Putting anything over an existing teak deck will eventually fail. There are a lot of reasons for this--- check out the archives on the Grand Banks owners forum if you really want to know why. But the bottom line is that if you want to replace a teak deck with something else you MUST remove the teak first. If you don't, whatever you put over it--- non-skid, fiberglass, truck bed liner, artificial teak--- will eventually fail. Eventually may be a few years but in the end the underlying teak will cause whatever's on top of it to fail.

So if you want to remove a teak deck, better to do it right than have to do it over.

charles wrote:
Marin,
A little heads up on covering teak decks with polyurathane, I did mine in 1999 at they are doing just fine.

Click to expand...

I'm just passing on the information and experience of the shipwrights and yard owners who participate on the two Grand Banks owners forums.* This topic has been discussed ad infinitum on that forum since almost every GB every made was built with a teak-surfaced deck. While you may have experienced good luck (so far) in covering existing teak with another surface, you are the clear exception.

I'm going to stick with the collective experience of the real pros I've read and talked to-- in person and via the GB forum--- who have done teak replacement projects on a professional basis for decades and who say (all of them) that covering an existing teak deck is a losing proposition.* Maybe not immediately, but eventually.

Not only do they have the experience to back this up but their reasoning makes a whole lot of sense.* In essence, the deak decking is not stable and over time it will crack, loosen, or otherwise compromise any covering on top of it.

Given the number of people I've been made aware of, either directly or by reading their stories, who've tried it and experienced eventual failure, I don't think it's worth cutting corners and keeping your fingers crossed that it works.* Better, in my mind, to go with the sure thing and do it right.* Removing the existing teak, while not the easiest thing to do depending on how the boat was built, is not rocket science and once it's gone a proper job can be done of prepping the subdeck for its new covering with confidence that the new covering will stay solidly put.

So while we are not currently contempating removing our existing teak deck (unless we decide to have it replaced with a new teak deck as part of a potential total rebuild of the boat), were we to decide to replace the teak with a non-wood surface we would not even consider doing so before removing the existing teak first no matter what product we decided to put in its place.





-- Edited by Marin on Friday 30th of December 2011 08:59:56 PM

Any thin film will print thru, so seeing what is left of the teak underlay will be normal.

Weather it sticks long term , seems the jury is out for some products..

Roofing tar works for low buck boats , and really gives a meaning to BOAT SHOES!

I have never seen CCC's work in person. Only via photos.

I have seen two other boats, both 36 Albins, that covered their teak decks with "bed liner" but I don't remember what brand.

In my opinion they looked bad. Yes the teak was covered, but it took away the good look of the boat in MY opinion. Beauty is in the eye of the beholder.

*

charles wrote:


1.Addressing the Grand Bank yards that poo poo on this fix, I am sure that they are the same yards that cut out the side of the boats to replace fuel tanks.

2. But So many GB owners have a propensity for spending money, and lots of it, on their boats they actually get away with such

Click to expand...

1. Wrong again.*

2.* Another stupid assumption on your part.

*

Actually virtually all the pros and ex-pros on the GB boards (and everyone else on those forums) think the idea of cutting out the side of a boat to remove and replace tanks is dumb.* So far as I know, nobody on eiher of the GB forums has done it or even contemplated it.

As to GB owners all being rich, you obviously know very few GB owners, or you are simply subscribing to the same naive, dumba*s assumption so many other people believe.* The people who buy brand new GBs most certainly are rich.* But the picture changes after that* Almost all of the participants on the GB forums are DIY boaters with budgets.* This is why the forum is so valuable--- the participants are focused on maintaining and repairing their own boats to keep costs under control.* As a result, they have encountered and successfully solved virtually every boat repair and maintenance problem one can imagine,which makes them outstanding sources of knowledge not only to GB owners but to the owners of any types of boats that are similar.

There is a fellow in England who restored a wood GB32 from virtually junk condition.* He is not a professional shipwright or mechanic although he obviously has a great aptitude for both.* I have seen photos of his boat when he acquired it and photos of his boat today.* In addition to completely rebuilding the boat and its systems, he also completely tore down and overhauled the FL120 in it.* He is typical of the kind of person who particiipates on the GB forum.* He's not rich, he can't afford to have everything done by a pro.* And based on what I know and have seen of his accomplishments, I would venture to say he has forgotten more about* rebuilding, repairing, and maintaining a boat than you will ever know.

So be careful of who you slam.* Chances are they are better at doing whatever your slamming them for than you are.* The fact you've had a few articles published in boating magazines doesn't make you an expert, it just makes you published.

All I can say to someone contemplating putting a different deck surface over an existing teak deck surface is do some VERY careful research. Talk to the real pros--- not amateur boaters on a general boating forum.* Talk to people like Bob Lowe (on the GB forum) who for years owned Oak Harbor Boatworks, usually considered the prime West Coast yard for the maintenance, repair, restoration and upgrading of Grand Banks boats as well as other major brands like Fleming, deFever, Island Gypsy, etc.* Or Mike Negley, who is Bob's equivelent on the east coast.

Replacing a teak deck properly is A) time consuming, B) very expensive unless you do it yourself, and C) requires some very specific steps that need to be done exactly right.* I have seen a few boats whose owners have said how easy it was, how it was not rocket science, etc.* And in each case, their deck looked like crap.

As opposed to the Island Gypsy owner on our dock who did this.* It took him a summer and a half of work and the end result looks better than if the factory had done it, and you could probably land a plane on the deck he ended up with it is so strong.

And of course, if will depend on your own standards.* If you don't care if your deck becomes wavy or develops cracks or looks "home-made," then of course you can slap whatever you want on top of the existing teak and be happy with it.

If you want to end up with a deck that looks like it came from the factory, retains the original stiffness, complements the boat, and enhances--- or at least doesn't detract from--- the value of the boat, then talk to as many people who have done this as* you can--- pariticularly professionals, either independent shipwrights or yard owners--- and look at as many replacement decks as you can.

My own opinion is that you will find that the vast majority of successful teak deck replacements had "remove original decking" as Step One of their process.

The very nature of wood makes it move.* Not a lot. But the absorbtion of moisture and the subsequent drying out, increasing and decreasing temperatures, and the stresses it absorbs and compensates for from the twisting and flexing of the boat itself all conspire to make a teak deck a "mobile" surface.* It's why there is flexible sealant between the planks and why that sealant should be installed in a specific way, using bond-breaking tape in the bottom of the groove and so forth.* The techniques used when laying a teak deck have the goal of maintaining the watertightness of a constantly moving surface.

Given that one wants to maintain the integrity of any alternative deck surface one decides to put on the boat in place of the teak, it seems glaringly obvious to me that an important first step is to elminate that "squirmy" teak deck rather than simply put the new surface over it, particularly if that surface is more rigid and less tolerant of flexing and bending than the teak.








-- Edited by Marin on Saturday 31st of December 2011 01:51:02 PM

I've been on Charles' boat and his decks look great, very "shippy". The coating seems to have worked very well for him.

A dock neighbor of mine, glassed over his teak decks on his American Marine, 50' motorsailer.* He used epoxy resin, bought in 55 gallon drums and lots of glass cloth.

He did a beautiful job, there is a slight print thru of the old decking. He finshed it off in a tan nonskid paint.

The decks are tight and waterproof after 10 years!

JohnP

There was a sailboat next to me for a numbers of years that had glassed over teak deck.* Same thing, you could see the print through of the deck underneath, but it looked great,*professionally done.* I didn't realize it, until I was talking with*him*about repainting my decks and he told me the PO had it done at a yard!!**


-- Edited by Edelweiss on Saturday 31st of December 2011 09:03:19 PM

In the process of removing my teak decks now.

While I could see a "rhino liner" or similar coating going over a teak deck and lasting 10 years or so...it depends on a lot.* Up front prep and how and where the deck is used.* Not a bad idea for the first attempt at stopping water intrusion....but I doubt I would try it...but my free time is cheap.

I'm going the strip the teak, ply and glass refinish.* On the bridge I may go for a simple nonskid that I'll cover with a nice piece of hemmed, snap down outdoor carpeting.* On the main deck (and to follow... the tops of the fore/aft cabins eventually) I will use a glue down covering like treadmaster.* Best look and medium longevity for a semi-pro job.

I can't speak for Durabek or its clones but conceptually it has worked just fine for many years. In the middle of the last century my father purchased a motor vessel that Zane Grey had owned in the 1920s. The build technique on the decks and cabin tops*was well matched wood planking overlain with*stretched canvas. The canvas*was then painted with a good oil base enamel with perfect overlaps onto the wood preventing leaking. Silica sand was mixed in for the non skid. This type of system could easily last 5 years or more on decks and much longer on cabin tops.

Now for the tricky part, I don't claim to be an expert on this ageless technique but I know Zane's high priced crew were. I do know that when I slept below I did not get wet and the salon rugs showed no*huge water*spots.

Canvas covering of cabin tops was very common...just like the eventual fiberglassing of planked boats.* If done well they both work...if done poorly...they deteriorated rapidly.

Hey...I love the commercial for the new roofing spray paint that seals anything.* The guy puts a screen door in the bottom of an aluminum skiff, sprays it and paddles around the lake.* Good for him...doubt that's my solution to a leaky boat.*... maybe gutters and a few other things but I can't say that it isn't a miracle proiduct and the wave of the furture.* I'll bet wooden boat builders scoffed at glass boats at first too.

I think if I had an older boat and didn't have the time or skills to remove the teak and re-glass...I might try something like that.* There's a new deck treatment at Home Depot for like 35 bucks a gallon.* For a couple hundred dollars or less I most certainly would try it to see if it stopped the leaks before spending thousands...even if it only lasted a year or two per coating.* If it didn't work...It would make the teak removal a little more difficult...but not that much that I wouldn't try it.



-- Edited by psneeld on Monday 2nd of January 2012 07:59:26 PM


-- Edited by psneeld on Monday 2nd of January 2012 08:00:03 PM

GTFU....

to get back in focus.* Here is the deck with original Durabak 6 years ago and another coat last season.

Or check ANY OTHER trawler owners forum for ideas......there's some good stuff on the ALBIN Owner's forum...not that all of the stuff in this thread is right or wrong either...you have to always sort through internet advice.

*

I've seen Charles' former boat and the decks looked pretty good. Not what I would/did and am going to do again but seemed to be a resonable alternative if done with care.

Gentlemen, please try and keep you personal bickering offline or in PM's.

Thanks,
Tom-