Nordhavn 35, safe enough for a Carribean passage?

Nordhavn 35 is a sturdy baby trawler (advertised as coastal cruiser) that has a range between 450 - 2000 Miles dep. on speed.
Is here anyone who used this small boat for 500 miles+ passages.
Is it reasonable safe to use it for a Caribbean passage North/South.
-Roughly a 3 x24 hrs (no stabilisation) ride on 7 knots-
I did ask an owner of a 35 but he never went out more then 15 miles from the coastline and said he was not too curious as well.... (sounded not too promissing)

I would not hesitate to take the N35 anywhere in the Carribean. Its a competent coastal cruiser, not an Ocean crosser.

Greetings,
Welcome aboard. What Mr. SoF said BUT watch your weather closely.

The Nordhavn 35 is NOT a blue water passagemaker. A BWP has heavy windows, redundant systems, ballast for stability and often dynamic stabilization. It is designed to deal with whatever Mother Nature throws at you, short of a full blown hurricane.

The N35 is a very well built coastal cruiser. With 590 gallons of fuel it can go beyond reasonable weather forecasts cruising at 7 kts so you could get in trouble. But if you watch the weather and have a bail out port in mind after about 3 days from shore, then you can go anywhere in the Caribbean.

But 2,000 miles, NFW

David

N35

I suggest you talk with Jeff Merrill at JMYS about the N35. He was the project manager while at PAE and took the boat on many trips.

Having owned three Nordhavns including N3522 I can confirm it's well built but the boat but it never reached its designed speed or performance. If I was looking to travel the Caribbean I would look at the Helmsman 38 also.

John T

N4061 said:

I suggest you talk with Jeff Merrill at JMYS about the N35. He was the project manager while at PAE and took the boat on many trips.

Having owned three Nordhavns including N3522 I can confirm it's well built but the boat but it never reached its designed speed or performance. If I was looking to travel the Caribbean I would look at the Helmsman 38 also.

John T

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I second the recommendation to talk to Jeff. He can be reached at 949.355.4950, but remember he's West Coast (PT) time zone.

Cruising the Carib would be fine , the challenge is getting there.

The "Thornles Path " is the usual guide.


The Gentleman's Guide to Passages South: The Thornless Path to ...

https://www.amazon.com/Gentlemans-Guide-Passages-South-Thornless/.../147014696...


The Gentleman's Guide to Passages South: The Thornless Path to Windward Paperback – March 14, 2012. ... This is the Tenth and last Edition of the popular directions for sailing south to the Bahamas and the Caribbean. For more than twenty years Van Sant repeatedly surveyed nearly 200 ...

FF said:

Cruising the Carib would be fine , the challenge is getting there.

The "Thornles Path " is the usual guide.


The Gentleman's Guide to Passages South: The Thornless Path to ...

https://www.amazon.com/Gentlemans-Guide-Passages-South-Thornless/.../147014696...


The Gentleman's Guide to Passages South: The Thornless Path to Windward Paperback – March 14, 2012. ... This is the Tenth and last Edition of the popular directions for sailing south to the Bahamas and the Caribbean. For more than twenty years Van Sant repeatedly surveyed nearly 200 ...

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Thank you ; indeed did read this. I do live in this area (DR) most of the time. The author Van Sant is- or was always in the bay of Luperon, DR.
This book is more about sailing there then to find out if the smallest boat you could safely afford is a N35. Also from the late George Buehler's desk a few good books about trawlers are available. Despite I read them all I would like to get the imput from a N35 user. -Reason of the post here-

N4061 said:

I suggest you talk with Jeff Merrill at JMYS about the N35. He was the project manager while at PAE and took the boat on many trips.

Having owned three Nordhavns including N3522 I can confirm it's well built but the boat but it never reached its designed speed or performance. If I was looking to travel the Caribbean I would look at the Helmsman 38 also.

John T

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Thank you for reacting. How you used yr N35 ?if I may ask.
I am extremely lucky enough to not have an "Admiral" aboard, so space is no issue but comfort and safety are ofcoarse points of interest.

More often it is a question will the people inside survive what nature throws at the boat.
Break down and call the Nordhavn people and ask them the max recovery roll angle. Get their option on the max weather is safe. Then realize the recovery information is "lightly loaded."

The book were written because sailboats go upwind , esp into the trades with great difficulty. Therefore his method of using Northers to make progress.

Dong the trip under power is far less effort.You can use the calm days the sail folks cant.

The only exposure to rough water is the Mona Passage between the Dom Rep and PR.

THe trades die off a good deal at night , so thats the time to power away.

With extra fuel out 23ft IO could make the leg , a 35 ft anything should not have a problem, except in a Norther.


http://www.caribbeancompass.com/mona_passage_2015.html

I've looked at a number of routes down there and thankfully you can step stone your way there like FF stated, I think in many cases its about weather and your planning that will count the most.

OldDan1943 said:

More often it is a question will the people inside survive what nature throws at the boat.
Break down and call the Nordhavn people and ask them the max recovery roll angle. Get their option on the max weather is safe. Then realize the recovery information is "lightly loaded."

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All good points, but I doubt that Nordhavn will provide that data for a boat they said is a coastal cruiser.



Since the N35 is a semi-displacement hull with no ballast, my guess is that the max roll angle is similar to other similarly designed boats- the GBs, etc. As I vaguely recall, hulls of that nature have an 80 degree roll recovery angle. Compare this with sailboats in the 120-140 degree range and Krogens at a little less.


But maximum roll angle is only one safety factor that blue water boats need. The pilot house windows need to be able to withstand a slug of green water over the bow, the downflooding angle (the angle at which water begins to flood through vents) needs to be roughly the same as the maximum roll angle, systems need to be installed so they won't break loose in a significant roll, etc.


All being said, I wouldn't want to take a N35 in conditions with 10' seas and I wouldn't plan a passage where they were forecast to be above 6'. That significantly limits when you can go in the Caribbean.



David

Cornelis said:

if the smallest boat you could safely afford is a N35.

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For about 15% more money, you could get a Kadey-Krogen 39' which is a true blue water boat and much better for cruising the Caribbean. Certainly, it is a larger boat and isn't stabilized. Realize this doesn't answer your question.

https://www.yachtworld.com/boats/20...tates?refSource=standard listing#.W6jxV_YpDb0

Hello Old Dan. Thx for reacting on the N35 question from Old Cornelis.

Indeed the point is that someone (a "knowledgable owner") wants to sell me a 16 year old low hrs N35, "full equipped" for below 200.000 Euro. I can't only find a Krogen for that plus 15% but for some reason I would feel better with a Nordhavn.
But a 35....? For the single handed 500-Mile+ trips to Curacao and Bonaire ...?
Am sure there are N35 users at this forum that could tell me what they used their boats for. The man that wants to sell his one to me never left the coastline.
Not too many N35 stories either in the fora I am familiar with.

djmarchand said:

All good points, but I doubt that Nordhavn will provide that data for a boat they said is a coastal cruiser.



Since the N35 is a semi-displacement hull with no ballast, my guess is that the max roll angle is similar to other similarly designed boats- the GBs, etc. As I vaguely recall, hulls of that nature have an 80 degree roll recovery angle. Compare this with sailboats in the 120-140 degree range and Krogens at a little less.


But maximum roll angle is only one safety factor that blue water boats need. The pilot house windows need to be able to withstand a slug of green water over the bow, the downflooding angle (the angle at which water begins to flood through vents) needs to be roughly the same as the maximum roll angle, systems need to be installed so they won't break loose in a significant roll, etc.


All being said, I wouldn't want to take a N35 in conditions with 10' seas and I wouldn't plan a passage where they were forecast to be above 6'. That significantly limits when you can go in the Caribbean.



David

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When I had a 46, with hydraulic stabilizers, I called the Nordhavn people and asked about recoverable rolls, that where I got the phrase, 'the boat will recover.... but not so sure you want to be onboard. You may not recover.

I don't know what the safe range is on a 35 Nordie , but I would not use others use as a yard stick. Just because nobody has taken one on a 500 mile passage,doesn't mean the boat can't do it. Most owners don't ever leave sight of land,no matter what they are riding. Sea stories don't count

Sailor of Fortune said:

I don't know what the safe range is on a 35 Nordie , but I would not use others use as a yard stick. Just because nobody has taken one on a 500 mile passage,doesn't mean the boat can't do it. Most owners don't ever leave sight of land,no matter what they are riding. Sea stories don't count

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That is why I recommend calling the Nordhavn folks and ask the question, directly.

This is SUCH a subjective question, because its not really could you do it...its could you do it comfortably. "Comfort" is different for everyone. I don't think a manufacturer would ever say "Yes, you can take this boat from point A to point B", because that implies a guarantee that a trip is feasable, and common sense says there are times when any trip is going to be risky.

If I said I had an N35 and made that trip that doesn't mean you could make that trip. Maybe I had better weather, or was lucky, or am an amazingly skilled captain. Too many variables.

Consider that Missouri Duck Boat accident. 2 Identical boats in the same place on a the same course....2 very different outcomes.

The answer to "can this boat make this trip" is always going to be a very qualified maybe.

IMHO the 35 can make the trip but as Benthic2 mentions what about comfort. We went through the Eastern Carabbean for 2 plus seasons. Travel up or down is with the wind and seas on the beam for the most part. Without stabilization, the ride can be miserable. From December through March, plus or minus, the Christmas winds are blowing most years. The book that FF mentioned is a good guide. Maybe we’ll hear from Scott on Sealife. He just came back from there.

Cornelis said:

Indeed the point is that someone (a "knowledgable owner") wants to sell me a 16 year old low hrs N35, "full equipped" for below 200.000 Euro. I can't only find a Krogen for that plus 15% but for some reason I would feel better with a Nordhavn.
But a 35....? For the single handed 500-Mile+ trips to Curacao and Bonaire ...?
Am sure there are N35 users at this forum that could tell me what they used their boats for. The man that wants to sell his one to me never left the coastline.
Not too many N35 stories either in the fora I am familiar with.

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200,000 Euros is about $235,000 USD. Initially, it seems like a good price but the sample N35 for sale in FL will probably sell for $250,000 and then there will be survey reductions. Likewise, the Kadey Krogen 39' will sell for 10-20% less.

It is okay to feel better with a Nordhavn if they are a blue water boat such as a N40 but the N35 really isn't designed for the mission you want to accomplish. A N40 will cost you almost $200,000 more than the N35.

You won't get many responses here because there are so few of them and most owners have enough sense to stay in coastal waters with a coastal cruiser.

If you decide to go through with purchasing the N35, be sure to get a good survey. If the owner was really the knowledgeable, I have to wonder why the hours are low. And since you plan to single hand, keep in mind a 500 mile cruise is 50 hours or more of running time. Maybe Otto can give you some sleep...if you trust it.

Dont take anyones word. Call Nordhavn and ask for the design criterial. They know best.

Plenty of Grand-banks were delivered to the Caribbean for charter service, they are at the same service level, pick your days and limit your distances and its very doable, plenty of less then quality sail boats have also made the journey without analytical rollover stat's, basically gypsy's on a cheap boat living the dream...

The boat is only as safe as the operator. The operator is only as safe as his planning. Planning includes contingencies.

Talk of recovery angles is scary. The ability to survive such a situation is not nearly as important as avoiding anything near that situation.

What are you going to do with the boat when the hurricane comes? Think these things through to the conclusion before you begin to think about sunsets on the deck with boat drinks.

It's not the best choice but you could spend the rest of your life debating what is the best choice.

And yes, I would take that boat just about anywhere I wanted to go. Maybe not exactly when I wanted to go. Later I might wonder what I was thinking when I decided to go.

You can always sell it and buy something else. Buy it cheap enough to make this a realistic choice.

Adages: It will always cost more and take longer than you think it will. It is always later than you think.

Larry M said:

IMHO the 35 can make the trip but as Benthic2 mentions what about comfort. We went through the Eastern Carabbean for 2 plus seasons. Travel up or down is with the wind and seas on the beam for the most part. Without stabilization, the ride can be miserable. From December through March, plus or minus, the Christmas winds are blowing most years. The book that FF mentioned is a good guide. Maybe we’ll hear from Scott on Sealife. He just came back from there.

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We had a Krogen 42 in the Eastern Caribbean for 10 years and I second Larry's comment. You can island hop your way from Florida to Trinidad (most common way). This involves several overnights but nothing more than 24 hour runs.

As Larry mentioned the problem is not the bad weather you can avoid by watching the forecasts, but just the normal 5 footers on the beam. Reasonably safe but uncomfortable.

The Mona Passage and the Anegada Passage will be the two tough spots as the weather can get nasty without clear cut warning. We faced 10 footers on the way down in the Mona and 4 footers on the way back.

A number of the Krogen 42 have sold for less than $200,000 but the boat selection is yours to make.

An earlier post implied this, and I completely agree. The skipper is the most critical component on any vessel undertaking such a cruise. Train yourself thoroughly in the skills of boat handling and seamanship, and the art of navigation and you could safely take a far less capable vessel through the Caribbean. The Caribs did it centuries ago in canoes.

No stabilization

You’ll have to really pick and choose your days without stabilization.
I had a 41’ Defever and it was pretty rolly throughout the Bahamas. I could handle it but my wife and toy poodle hated it.
I now have a 47’ Selene with stabilization and the difference is night and day not to mention it’s a much heavier and longer boat. And I go in much different conditions then I would have with the Defever.
35’ is not long enough to plow through waves.
Just my two cents.

Island hopping around I don't see many long passages you'd HAVE to make.
I would island hop my 34' Mainship to just about anywhere that way but I wouldn't bring my wife on a long leg for comfort and safety. I'd also want a buddy boat which if you choose the right jump point shouldn't be a problem.

I remember mapping this route and thought the longest stretch was like 100 miles or so. I'm assuming you mean going to the Bahama's and island hopping which you could do all the way to south america without doing more than a 100 mile crossing.

If you're asking if you have the right boat to just point and shoot to a 500 mile away destination.. Then i'd have to say no and very few boats are comfortable doing that without sails.

The northern route to Europe doesn't even have a 500 mile crossing between newfoundland and Greenland.