removing flybridge

Does anyone here have any experience with (or opinions on) permanently removing the flybridge on an old 34? I'd love to see pictures and hear about the experience.

I have a 34 M1. Love the flybridge but in open water it's a lot of weight and windage aloft. I've been thinking of removing mine on an experimental basis to see how it changes performance, comfort and appearance.

Happy to discuss

A flybridge can be a convenient storage area, like a house's attic. Nevertheless, my having purchased a new boat, it was easy to decline a boat with a flybridge. On the other hand, the vast majority of used boats available for sale have flybridges. That rather limits one's selection if wishing to avoid the disadvantages of a flybridge.

It might be worthwhile to rent or share rides on boats lacking a flybridge to see if a changeover is worthwhile. Could be more cost effective to sell your current boat for one lacking a flybridge.

I'm not a fan of flybridges for various reasons. I would remove it. I saw a pic of a MS 34 with it removed and I really liked it. The owner had put a small mast on it for radar and lights.

Removing weight aloft is a rwo edge sword.

It may reducd your roll a big but mack it snappier to the point where the reduction isnt worth the new motion.

There are other good reasons to remove it..... but everything is a tradeoff.

Jimisbell (Mainship 34 waltz across texas) on this forum poised the same question. We personally do like a flybridge for obvious reasons, mainly a better view and a whole other floor for entertaining or whatever. It's great for the type of inshore cruising we do.
I think a 34 would look fine sans the flying bridge & perhaps it would even improve the performance & stability. What I wouldn't like about being permanently committed to operating the boat from the lower helm on a model 1 34 would be the lack of a side door access/exits. It's probably no quicker to sprint from the bridge to the bow or corners of the boat regarding anchoring or docking single-handed verses from the lower helm but I don't think the boat was really designed as a lower helm-only boat.

Have you seen the later model yr 34 HTs?
They should give you a good idea of what it would look like.
We love our 34HT and get lots of positive compliments.
We obviously not bridge fans but won't ever debate w those that like them... lots of +\-

Bacchus said:

Have you seen the later model yr 34 HTs?
They should give you a good idea of what it would look like.
We love our 34HT and get lots of positive compliments.
We obviously not bridge fans but won't ever debate w those that like them... lots of +\-

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I haven't seen one. It was actually a recent thread here that got me thinking about it. I hadn't realized that the newer 34s were offered in both configurations. Have seen a few newer 34s with the FB and they look a bit ungainly and top heavy to my eye. I know it's subjective, but I suspect I'd much prefer the 34HT.

I removed the inside helm seat on my boat last year because I wasn't spending any time steering from inside. I have an autopilot that steers 99% of the time, and have pretty much always done close quarters maneuvering from the FB. I think I'll reinstall the inside seat and try to live on one level for a while and tweak the inside station to see if I can get comfortable with it. Visibility is pretty good. I have trim tabs that do a good job of keeping the bow down. I really like the idea of having full sun protection and climate control available, and I travel mostly solo, so I'm not trying to maximize living space in the main cabin.

Also WRT the motion, the 34 M1 is quite a bit narrower than the newer 34 trawlers and pilots, which makes it 'tippier.' I understand the concern over snap, but I kind of think that removing a few hundred pounds from up top would have a net positive effect.

Thanks to all for the comments.

I've been contemplating removing our "fly bridge" on our BYB PH 40 to make the boat deck more functional as a boat deck when underway and as an outdoor deck when at anchor on in a marina. The setup today sits behind the PH and consumes about 30% of the boat deck for what is a essentially an outdoor steering position. Plus, visibility up there is so bad (a common positive for fly bridges) we drive from the PH about 90% of the time.

It's hard to see out of the MS 1 from the lower station. I've got to put my head against ceiling during a rainstorm and still can't see that good.

Interesting question Jeff and one I had asked myself a number of times when I had the Great Lakes 33. The previous owner of that boat told me that he had only used the bridge twice in 22 years. I always used the lower helm when locking through but found the view nicer on open water on the bridge. It may be advantageous also in not having to wait for a number of bridges to swing or lift. I'll bet Healhustler can photoshop your boat without one if you gave him some good pics. It was great to meet you on the Trent!!

bluemainship said:

It's hard to see out of the MS 1 from the lower station. I've got to put my head against ceiling during a rainstorm and still can't see that good.

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I disagree. I helped a friend bring his MS 34 hundreds of miles from Baltimore to Troy, NY. We steered the whole way, by hand from the lower helm because the fly bridge helm wasn't functional. Visibility was fine.


But on the question of stability with hundreds of pounds removed from the top, I don't think it will be improved. That much weight way up on top slows the roll period so the boat will roll quicker with it gone.


Do this: Before removing the fly bridge, get on board and rock the boat back and forth by moving your weight side to side. After you get it going time the roll period through a couple of roll cycles. Then do the same thing with flybridge off. It will be shorter, how much shorter????


Don: It would be interesting if you could compare the roll period of your boat with a fly bridge 34T. The wide beam and hard chine of that boat may dampen any effect of weight up on top though.



David

If you removed your FB, how would you run the boat? I think our 400 has a lower helm, but I'm not certain of it. I've never used it.

"Don: It would be interesting if you could compare the roll period of your boat with a fly bridge 34T. The wide beam and hard chine of that boat may dampen any effect of weight up on top though."

David
Interesting comparison... must be the engineer showing??
I'd give it a try but we are on the hard as of last week. Off on a fall trip and catching up on chores ignored all summer.

I have not been aboard a 34T but don't feel any noticable roll discomfort on our 34HT. We do notice the following seas motion common on the 34's which is sort of a combination of roll and yaw. I'd guess the perceived motion has to be greater on the bridge than lower helm which is closer to the axis of roll.
Don

djmarchand said:

I disagree. I helped a friend bring his MS 34 hundreds of miles from Baltimore to Troy, NY. We steered the whole way, by hand from the lower helm because the fly bridge helm wasn't functional. Visibility was fine.

David

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I agree with you. I would say anyone that thinks it is hard to steer from the lower helm never sailed a sailboat from a helm at the stern!!!!!! Get some good experience there first and you will love the lower helm of a MK1

My 34 MK1 has excellent visibility from the lower helm and I dont like the FB because when at the FB you cant see close to the sides of the boat because the FB blocks that view!!!! Cant see the dock!!!

This can be compared to the argument between tricycle pilots and taildragger pilots or stick vs yoke pilots. It is a matter of lazyness and not getting experience to make them better pilots/helmsmen.

jimisbell said:

This can be compared to the argument between tricycle pilots and taildragger pilots or stick vs yoke pilots. It is a matter of lazyness and not getting experience to make them better pilots/helmsmen.

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I think you're right. This was my first inboard power boat, and I was initially enamoured by the FB and spent all my early days running from there. I don't see any reason why I couldn't get equally comfortable operating from the lower helm if I spend some time there.

I was thinking the same since many new boats lack the fly bridges but have both options. How hard are they to remove? Would you have a new roof constructed?

One of the reasons we bought Willy was that some PO removed the FB. Saved us the trouble.

But we have a small trawler that rolls a lot in beam seas.

boating rich said:

I was thinking the same since many new boats lack the fly bridges but have both options. How hard are they to remove? Would you have a new roof constructed?

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Removing the bridge is a piece of cake on the 34's, especially if it's the bridge without the integral seating. All that would be involved would be to fill the screw holes where the bridge & helm seat fasteners were ,removal of the clutch & engine cables, capping the steering lines below and terminating the few electrical wires that were run to the bridge. Probably the hardest part would be changing the sending units for the oil & water temperature on the engine from dual to single gauge.

Don't like the exaggerated movement on a second-story flybridge, nor climbing up or down from same. Also, spent too many years in an open cockpit while sailing exposed to too much solar radiation. Put my bet on a pilothouse at deck level with doors on both port and starboard. Simplifies single-handed docking.

The OP is considering removing the flybridge....but has also removed the lowerhelm seat...... Will you be using a tiller ? You gotta steer from somewhere !!!

...and then there's the issue of resale when it's time for a change. Trying to sell a 40 year old boat is hard enough ,but when it's had a major customization done to suit a previous owner like you're contemplating, it'll be harder yet to fine any prospects. You yourself Jeff,wouldn't have bought it if the bridge had been removed ,would you? Would you reassemble it so as to make it more marketable? Storing the flybridge ,bimini top & railing would take up a lot of space.
Unless you really like the boat, my vote would be for selling it and looking at a boat designed with no bridge if your mind is made up.

I have never owned a boat that I didnt think, "this the one I will never sell." So worrying about resale is only something car and house buyers should do.


I have the same boat and I dont like the lines of a FB. Especially with a canvas box on top of it. If you dont like the sun, why have a FB in the first place.


I may take off the FB and I may not. BUT I will not put up the Bimini. It looks like a homeless persons shack. Built on a boat.


As to preference for helm, the lower is my preference with so much better visibility when docking. In open water,who cares.


A seat for the lower helm? I dont have one and I never had one for any sailboat. Dont know why you would need one?

boomerang said:

...and then there's the issue of resale when it's time for a change. Trying to sell a 40 year old boat is hard enough ,but when it's had a major customization done to suit a previous owner like you're contemplating, it'll be harder yet to fine any prospects.

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For mine, (not a MK1) the FB is a very rare option on a rare boat. It's possible ours it the only one with a FB and it appears from the contruction and original documentation that it was a broker installed 'factory' add-on.

Most other owners see it as a negative and have encouraged me to delete it.

This subject has strong proponents on both sides. Personally, I'd likely NEVER own a boat without a FB. Boating is about being out in nature, enjoying your environment etc. Stuck below at a lower steering station does not do that for me. A FB with a simple Bimini for the sun (NO oxygen tents please) and I'm a happy guy. 95% operation from the bridge, 5% from below... Your mileage may vary..

boomerang said:

Jimisbell (Mainship 34 waltz across texas) on this forum poised the same question. We personally do like a flybridge for obvious reasons, mainly a better view and a whole other floor for entertaining or whatever. It's great for the type of inshore cruising we do.
I think a 34 would look fine sans the flying bridge & perhaps it would even improve the performance & stability. What I wouldn't like about being permanently committed to operating the boat from the lower helm on a model 1 34 would be the lack of a side door access/exits. It's probably no quicker to sprint from the bridge to the bow or corners of the boat regarding anchoring or docking single-handed verses from the lower helm but I don't think the boat was really designed as a lower helm-only boat.

Click to expand...

I would move the flybridge steering and controls to the cockpit. A great docking station for almost no cost. Lots of downeast baots are set up this way.

Jeff
Have you seen any of the posts re Ebbtide's reno?
PO removed the bridge of a Grand Banks and received many many comments re the positive transformation.
He ended up having to sell due to a relocation. It certainly wasn't on the market long.
I would not worry about resale... MS made and sold later yr 34HTs that while not as popular as the 34Ts aren't selling at vargain basement prices and don't stay on the market long if priced reasonably.
Look up Ebbtide and see if you like the transformation... I think it is a great improvement but understand other opinions.
http://www.trawlerforum.com/forums/showthread.php?t=25444

Sailor of Fortune said:

I would move the flybridge steering and controls to the cockpit. A great docking station for almost no cost. Lots of downeast baots are set up this way.

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Ernest Hemingway had something like that on "Pilar"


The reason I may just stop at half way, removing the entire Bimini and "Oxygen Tent" as someone called it, is that while removing the fiberglass is not too onerous, taking care of the various wires and steering cable will be a bit more work.

jimisbell said:

I may take off the FB and I may not. BUT I will not put up the Bimini. It looks like a homeless persons shack. Built on a boat.

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A homeless persons shack??!!?? Damn it Jim, I resemble that remark!

I don't care if the OP puts a hot dog stand on top of his boat. He asked for opinions & I gave him mine. There's no shortage of them on here!

PS- That sure is a good looking Mainship I have for my avatar, isn't it?...I really think the blue bimini and flying bridge really compliment the lines of the boat. Don't you? haha!

boomerang said:

A homeless persons shack??!!?? Damn it Jim, I resemble that remark!

I don't care if the OP puts a hot dog stand on top of his boat. He asked for opinions & I gave him mine. There's no shortage of them on here!

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Yeah and I probably have more than most and change them regularly.....any time I am itching for a fight.......

So I’m the guy who removed the FB on Ebbtide. For us the results were 100% positive.

When we did the work resale was not a consideration usefulness was. The end result was a unique and some think proper looking boat.

When we had to sell it was to take an adventure working abroad. She sold very quickly.

My best advice is to do whatever is best for you and your style of cruising. The rest will take care of it’s self.

Regards,
Bob