Engine reliability

Hi all, the wife and I are looking at 50-60' boats to eventually take to Alaska. We are looking at trawlers and motor yachts from the mid 80s to mid 90s.
My only experience with marine diesels has been the DD 8.2t. I did not have major problems with those but it hurt resale due to their reputation.

Since this is a vessel we will take into the PNW up to Alaska we will want to know what engines seem to have the best reliability, parts availablility and serviceability.

We will obviously carry as many spares as possible but things happen.

A number of boats seem to have the DD V series engines with a very wide range of HP.

Cummings, Volvo and Cat all seem common.

What do I need to know and are there certain engines in a series I need to stay clear of?

Thanks in adavance for your help!

In Cummins I trust.

Think about it, you are considering 25-35 year old boats. The engines have made it this far... It all depends on how the engines were run and maintained at this point.

DD's are very re-buildable at reasonable cost to this very day.

Ford Lehman certainly is reliable - that's what I'm running. I passed on making an offer on a boat with volvos. I think certain models are better than others but many of the older ones don't have parts easily available.

We have Lehmans and they have been good. We had DD 6V53s in a previous boat. The advantage with DDS is parts are widely available and cheap. Almost any good mechanic can work on them. Cummins are also great.

I have the faithful Lehman 120s. But at 50-60 ft, is 240hp enough and how hard would they be working? Some might say just fine,but I don`t recall seeing a boat over 50ft advertised with Lehmans.

Well mine are the 225s and I don’t really use all of their power. It was almost a negative when we bought the boat because I felt it was overpowered for our purposes. But having had the boat for 3 years now I kinda like having the extra power when we want/need it to make a deadline.

In the PNW you have an incredible dealer for CAT. They will get you the part even if they have to put it on a float plane and fly it to you. You will pay. Detroit parts are cheap and plentiful. Cummin’s is great as well but i’ve Heard 555 parts are not always easily available. I am not speaking bad about any other engines, just can’t speak up for them.

Considering the size/year of boats you are looking at the most common engines you will find are dd8v71, dd6v92, cat3208, luggers(jd6068). These are not the only acceptable engines, just the most common for the size/year you mentioned.

If you want reliability DD 71 series is probably best. 92 series goes thru rings and sleeves maybe 20% faster. The 53 series are in smaller boats and generators and seem to be as reliable as the 71s. I ran 53s in Vietnam, and considering the abuse, never had a failure. DDs are 100% mechanical, no injector pump, no bleeding problems, no circuit boards or electronic sensors. If you're looking for longer life between overhauls, a bigger natural engine is better than a smaller turbo engine. A 12v71 natural is about the same hp as a J&T 671, but probably will go twice the hours. I've been running diesels on my own since about 1961. I'm biased, DD are my favorite for reliability. On injector pump engines, many have problems getting the air out when bleeding the pump, and if the pump fails, the engine shuts down. On a DD there is no bleeding, you could loose an injector, but the engine still runs. DD 71 series naturals are continuous rated, and can be run above the ratings usually w/o harm. My current boat has twin 671 naturals manufactured in 1947. They're rated continuous at 1800. A PO cruised Canada to Mexico every year and ran at 2100. When I rebuilt them the hours were somewhere above 20,000. They push an 83', 80 ton boat at 10 knots using about 8.5 gph. 6-7 knots using about 4+ gph. The engines ran fine with 20,000 hours, too, just more fuel and oil use. I like the inline best, but there's really no difference. Most of the internal parts are the same. The 12v head fits the inline and the 8v head fits the 471. If you keep the rpms down, you can double the hours on most turbo engines.
Parts are world wide. 30 years ago DDs were the most common engine in fishing boats and small tugs. I've never been in a port that didn't have a DD mechanic.

Engine reliability and durability has more to do w maintenance and how the skipper runs it than engine brand.
All this talk about what engine is best is mostly nonsense IMO.

Thank you all for your replies!

This is not just about engine reliability but also about parts availability and serviceability.

There is no way to know how all previous owners treated an engine. You can only kind of know it's current condition.

So to me having ones that I can work on and get parts for is more important.

Please keep posting!

While I agree with Norman Willy, there are some engine boat combinations I would stay away from. Sine the OP is looking at 50-60’ boats he should be concerned about high HP dd6-71 or 435 hp cat 3208. This is not a blanket statement there is a time and place for both those motors.

Avoid any vessel with VOLVO engines as parts are difficult if not impossible to find...and they will cost three times more than Cats or Cummins.

ancora said:

Avoid any vessel with VOLVO engines as parts are difficult if not impossible to find...and they will cost three times more than Cats or Cummins.

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Volvo's are like any other marine engine. Take care of it and you're good forever. Lots of us have them and they are just as good and reliable as any engine out there.

Engines

I think John Deere is another good engine supplier I have been very happy with.

Nordhavn uses them as OE & Kadey-Krogen uses them as OE.

So another to add to your list.

Alfa Mike

Nomad Willy said:

Engine reliability and durability has more to do w maintenance and how the skipper runs it than engine brand.
All this talk about what engine is best is mostly nonsense IMO.

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Yup, kinda like which is better, Ford or Chevy?

We spent a wonderful evening with Tony Fleming a month ago. A few years ago he replaced his Cummins engines with MANS in his 65 foot Fleming world cruiser. The engines are now up to 5,000 hours and they look gorgeous. in this case it really does come down to care, going by the book and a well engineered boat.

ancora said:

Avoid any vessel with VOLVO engines as parts are difficult if not impossible to find...and they will cost three times more than Cats or Cummins.

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I would tend to agree about Volvo parts. We had twin Volvos in a previous boat. The parts were never in stock anywhere and would always take a long time to arrive when they were ordered. YMMV, but that was my experience.

All generalities are FALSE!!!

Cummins 855 BIG CAM is a popular choice amongst 50 to 70ft work boats in Oz
Makes number two on the list

http://capitalremanexchange.com/best-diesel-engine-list/

It is the old Ford vs. Chevy discussion; who’s truck is better, but we all have our favorites and that’s part of the fun. OP, I am also in the wouldn’t do a Volvo again camp, but take anything you read on a forum with a skeptical eye and do your own due diligence.

Tom.B said:

Volvo's are like any other marine engine. Take care of it and you're good forever. Lots of us have them and they are just as good and reliable as any engine out there.

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As long as you live near a service centre.
As Ancora said parts and pricing is an issue, more so in remote locations.
I personally know of 2 commercial boats that had to be re-engined at considerable expense simply because the volvos were more trouble than they were worth in the location they were being used.

I have twin Luggers (John Deere). In fact they are the main reason I went for this boat over a couple of others.

Anywhere there is a tractor mechanic you'll find parts ...

menzies said:

I have twin Luggers (John Deere). In fact they are the main reason I went for this boat over a couple of others.

Anywhere there is a tractor mechanic you'll find parts ...

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X2! Twin Mechanical JD4045's aboard Salty....consumables and parts available in any town. Rock solid fuel sippers!

Tom.B said:

Volvo's are like any other marine engine. Take care of it and you're good forever. Lots of us have them and they are just as good and reliable as any engine out there.

Click to expand...

The most reliable thing about Volvo Engines is that you will see a Very Negative post from Ancora every time this discussion appears. Check through older threads on engines and you will see what I mean. His own experience continues to be with Volvo engines, though he hates them, he keeps them.

If your proposed cruising grounds include the BC coast, there are lots of Volvo Penta service and parts stores. You won't have any parts availability problems here. My own experience with Volvo parts is on the 40 and 41 series. Both reliable engines, so parts are infrequently required.

Of course you are looking for higher powered engines than I have, but if I can generalize, you shouldn't have any problems finding competent service and parts availability on any of the major brands; Volvo, Cat, Cummins, Detroit, Man. There are even some Isuzu, Iveco, and other less common brands that still have a following in Vancouver and good service and parts availability here. The main thing is to get a mechanical survey, so you will know the condition of whatever you get.

Simi 60 wrote;
“As long as you live near a service centre” re halving a certain brand of engine. Not true. My engine support is in southern BC Canada and Seattle Wa. Not a problem. Call-in what you need and it will arrive on a float plane, at the PO or some other place but you will get what you need.

But if you are the relax in the Salon while someone else bends the wrenches better get the downtown brand engine. Oh .. and stay in marinas. Not say’in I’m never in that category either.

Hundreds or perhaps thousands of fishermen depend on Yukon Engines (formerly Klassen and still Klassen in Canada) with this far reaching service .. since the 60’s. But my engine (Mitsubishi) is good enough that in 12 yrs I haven’t needed parts other than filters ect. If Volvo is this good why all the flak about expensive parts? But I can see the bit about not taking care of older engines at least to roughly industry standards.

Thank you for your replies.
A couple of boats on my long list have Mans but I know nothing about them.
My preference would be to stay with mechanical FI and cable shifters and throttles.
We will start actually looking at boats in October.
Currently we are on an extended RV trip in the south. Man is it hot and humid here in Louisiana. Austin was worse though.

Volvo makes a good engine, at least as often as the rest. They simply opt out of supporting them in more flaky inconsistent ways than the rest. It’s built into their dealer system which does 100% of the customer service. There actually is no escalation or talking to Corp for the end user like there is with Cat and others, so if the dealer does not champion you or Volvo fails to support the dealer you lose. Not an every day occurrence, but it happens and they do in fact have a different model than just about every top tier mfg in the US market. Oh, and Volvo intentionally misleads in their service bulletins. Cost me $18k for their subterfuge and as noted time and again, I have all the paperwork, metallurgical testing and failed parts to prove it and always happy to remind. Don’t buy Volvo if you can help it.

Chinese car manufacturer Geely bought and now manufactures Volvo cars, but did they buy the marine engine business? Wonder if they did, and if so whether it has or might make a difference to the issues ghost describes?
Maybe Volvo owners can now add a tariff to the cost of imported parts.

The Volvo hassle is they build SOME of the engines they sell, and purchase & marinize others.

The Volvos they manufacture usually get parts support for a long time.

The purchased units are a big hassle to get parts for a decade later.

Volvo dealers seldom stock much in parts , the prefer to order whatever from the US central parts store and charge you for the shipping .

They get away with this practice by usually having the lowest OEM (boat builder) cost in a group of comparable engines.And advertising heavily in boating magazines.

The most reliable engine will be the one that you maintain and become familiar with.