Power Cats for cruising

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Great photos of the Chamberlin's hull shapes on that website. Intriguing hull form, a fine entry that contours aft to flat with a keel. If you look in the bottom right of the first photo and the bottom left of the third photo you can see the edge of the flat hull at the stern. (I wish I had studied Naval Arc!)

Following Malcolm Tennant design innovations, including his canoe stern. If you look at the site noted in post #88 you will notice the tributes to Malcolm. A sad loss.
 
The new Fountaine Pajot MY37 takes the older PDQ34 powercat to a new level.

1) Same 16.5 foot beam.
2) Optional hardtop flybridge.
3) 36.1 foot length
4) 2.6 foot draft
5) 3 staterooms 2 heads
6) 1000 miles on a full tank at 7.5 knots
7) Top speed of 21 knots
8) 400 watts of solar on the hardtop
9) lower and upper helm stations
10) optional hydraulic dinghy platform (makes boat 39 foot length)
 

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I’ve been aboard the MY-37 at several shows, and it’s a nice boat with a modern, bright interior. I think it’s the best looking boat of it’s size & class. I wouldn’t mind chartering one for a try-out. Never got a look at the maintenance spaces though. Photos don’t help much. A great step up from the old FP Maryland 37 for sure.
 
I saw this thread a while ago, but didn't want to jinx myself by commenting prematurely. In short, I think there is some demand for a moderate beam cruising catamaran, because I'm in the final stages of negotiating a contract to build one. I wouldn't say there is large demand, though.

If I do the deed, I'm building a 38' x 14' with two 160hp engines. I estimate a cruising speed of 14 knots. Partially due to the lack of choices, I'm going with a designer who knows the vessel type well and building in aluminum because it will be a one-off. I'm also going with a builder who has considerable experience with commercial boats of this type - although I'm going to "yacht-up" the interior slightly compared to their usual fishing boat interior.

I like the idea of using a conventional sized slip even though it is costing me in terms of interior space. As my wife pointed out, I'm cramming a 35' interior into a 38' boat.
 
Bkay, FWIW our boat is 15’6” beam, we always just say 16’, and have yet to have a problem. Only once did they say 15’10” was the cutoff before being charged catamaran rates, to wich I replied OK, we are actually just inder that.

Might get you an extra 2 feet of beam if desired. Oh and we claim a LOA of 45’ usually.
 
I’ve been aboard the MY-37 at several shows, and it’s a nice boat with a modern, bright interior. I think it’s the best looking boat of it’s size & class. I wouldn’t mind chartering one for a try-out. Never got a look at the maintenance spaces though. Photos don’t help much. A great step up from the old FP Maryland 37 for sure.
Although ok for shorter trips, for longer-term passage making / living aboard I really don't like the galley extending full length port side of the MY37. No real salon area IMHO.
 
I appreciate that Sealife, but the 14' works for my purposes, even if I could push it out a bit as you mention. The big sister to my boat was 42' x 13' - I like my 38' x 14' dimensions much better.
 
Although ok for shorter trips, for longer-term passage making / living aboard I really don't like the galley extending full length port side of the MY37. No real salon area IMHO.
We are cruisers and have been Anchored out for over a month now.
The FP MY 37 has 4 entertaining and lounging areas.
1) Large Bow deck
2) galley/ saloon
3) Large cockpit with Bimini with seating for 10+
4) Large enclosed flybridge with seating for 10+

We spend most of our time in the cockpit or flybridge.

This boat is well suited for entertaining a crowd for sure.

It has 400 watts of solar on the hardtop and we have never used the generator yet with a fridge and freezer set to High.

We have a hydrolic tender lift that raises an lowers the dinghy in seconds. Truly the best dinghy setup we have ever had.
.
 

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I have had many catamaran dreams, although my fantasies are more world wide globe trotter focused than you are planning, even though I would probably never make it out of the Pacific NW with it. The key features I really like about power cats are.

1. Having the living space all on one level, with 360 views. My current boat has an oversized pilot house that doubles as the living room when at anchor, that has really great 360 views. We find that we spend most of our time there when at anchor, even though it would often be more comfortable to be in the back at the dining table, that has great bench seating for lounging around on. The view wins out. I would love a boat that has the dining, area upfront with unobstructed views when you are sitting down, that is well designed for eating, hanging out while underway, lounging around in the evening, and converts to an extra guest bed. The Dashew 64 boats layout is a great example of this, which works well in a cat too. On most trawlers, the space dedicated to the pilot house is the place with the best views, but is not that useful of a space as soon as you hit the dock, or drop the anchor, this seems like a huge waste. My perspective on this is also colored by boating in the Pacific NW where flybridges seem to get little use unless they are fully enclosed, as it it too cold up there most of the year.

2. Cats lend themselves to incredible covered back deck areas that I think would be sweet. I love the idea of a table with built in seating in the shade. I also like the idea of an outdoor, covered place to do smoky/greasy cooking, which we do alot of, and it makes a mess in the galley of our current boat.

3. I would love to have the option to carry 2 dingies. I would like to carry a 12' rowing/sailing dingy on the roof, and a 10' inflatable on the back on davits.

4. Easy to incorporate large amounts of unobstructed solar.

5. Stabilization that is built into the design and works at anchor and underway. My current boat has outriggers and fish, that work great, but are a pain to deploy and retrieve, especially in really bad weather, which is where you need them most. After owning a boat with stabilization, I would not buy another one without it. It makes a huge difference.

6. This would probably only work on larger cats, but I really like the idea of having a modest sized cockpit up in the front, similar to the Chris White sailing cats. This could take the place of a flybridge and offer a much lower wind profile, super convenient access, good shading of the glass, and great unobstructed solar installation. It would not need to be very big, as you have plenty of outdoor space in the back, and since it is so close to the main pilot station, would only need minimal redundant electronics, as you could always just step inside to use the full suite. You could put the windless right there too, and it would be an incredible place to anchor from single handed if set up right.

7. Much easier than typical large trawlers to set up for the type of fishing we do in the Pacific NW. Could be set up for trolling, crab and shrimp pots, etc. If you were designing this in new it would require very little costs and compromise.

8. I like the privacy provided by having rooms in both hulls. I am totally willing to make the compromise of cramped bedrooms, as I spend little time in bedrooms anyways for things other than sleeping. I can put up with the hassle of making the bed in cramped quarters. And it seems like an advantage to have a small space if you wanted to air condition it at night.

9. I really like the option of high speed, while still being able to cruse most of the time at displacement speed with very little compromise as far as I can tell.

Some features I would like to design in, or at least explore more on my dream cat

1. Either vertical, or forward leaning front windows with a nice brow overhang, to keep the sun out, and keep the rain off the windows when at anchor, or moving slowly.

2. Keel coolers, and dry exhaust. I have this on my current boat and love it. It also eliminates a lot of maintenance at the engine itself, which would be good as the access might suck on a cat.

3. Have the keels connect to the rudders with a metal bar to protect the prop, and protect the rudders. There must be a big disadvantage to this that I do not understand, because I have seem almost no cat's that are set up this way, even though it seems cheap and easy to do.

4. Design the boat from the start with modest built in tankage, and large areas that are designed and preplumbed for large custom bladder tanks that can be put in if you want to take a long voyage. This would eliminate the temptation to constantly haul around way more fuel than you need which only weighs you down, and grows scum since you don't use it fast enough. It could be great storage space of you weren't traveling long distances. Would make tank replacement/ inspection super easy. Tankage area could also be swapped between water and fuel if crusing needs warranted.

5. This one is a little crazy, and would need a ton more research, but in theory I like the idea. Build the boat around 2 engines that drive huge hydraulic pumps, then use hydraulic drives for the props, generator, windlass, dingy lift. I know there is an efficiency loss going hydraulic, but it is definitely possible. The cape horn trawlers do it. The advantage would be that you could have completely redundant propulsion as it would be set up with combined circuits between the engines, so both drives could be run off of either engine. Ideally the two engine could be different sizes, and you would run the smaller one for traveling at displacement speeds, or running the generator, and only fire up the big one if you wanted to get up on plane. It would eliminate having a generator engine to buy and maintain. It would allow for optimizing the placement of the engines in the boat for maintenance and weight distribution. It would be truly redundant propulsion that could cross oceans. Hydraulic drive motors are small, and spares could be carried, and installed onboard. The question That I do not know the answer to is at displacement speeds, how does the efficiency gained by running on one engine operating at optimum loading, vs. two larger engine's running at very low loading, compare to the energy lost in the hydraulic system? There are probably a lot of other problems and costs with this idea I do not understand as well.
Another advantage for me, would be that it would allow operation at very low speeds for salmon trolling, which I enjoy, and is a pain on my current boat running on one of the two engines at idle, and it still won't go quite slow enough.
 
as I spend little time in bedrooms anyways for things other than sleeping. .

Wifey B: :( That's too bad. :rofl: :eek: :hide:

Otherwise found your post interesting and good arguments. Now some of your design ideas such as #5 sort of lost me. :)
 
Those that are thinking a power cat uses less fuel they may be right when looking at a specialized one off build like catch cry which I linked to before but get something with more size and comfort and they suck fuel like anything else, some suck a lot more.
 
Comfort, load carrying and range for us would mean this

She gets her range and economy from running single engine.

I agree.
Our FP MY 37 has the ability to go 21knots on both engines.
And the ability to go 2000 NM at 7.5 knots on 1 engine.

We typically cruise on 1 engine at 8.5 knots .
 
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Those that are thinking a power cat uses less fuel they may be right when looking at a specialized one off build like catch cry which I linked to before but get something with more size and comfort and they suck fuel like anything else, some suck a lot more.

I think the ad listed above for Domino is a good example of cats using less fuel. check out the fuel consumption tables. I am not aware of any 65' monohull that can do anywhere close to 2300 miles on 2950gallons of diesel at 20 knots. What other 65' ocean going boat can go anywhere close to 20 knots with only 2x300hp engines?
 
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I think the ad listed above for Domino is a good example of cats using less fuel. check out the fuel consumption tables. I am not aware of any 65' monohull that can do anywhere close to 2300 miles on 2950gallons of diesel at 20 knots. What other 65' ocean going boat can go anywhere close to 20 knots with only 2x300hp engines?
Again, Domino is a custom build with attention to weight saving.
A couples boat, single cabin, extensive foam core and relatively light construction.
99% of power cats are not.

The above would be something like a 20mm or greater core with 1mm of glass each side and a wafer thin smear of filler and paint.

I have done work on production cats where so called foam core was 10mm and 5mm of woven rovings and chopped strand mat. On top of that was 3mm of gel coat, none of which is strong, all is heavy, robbing the cat of performance and load carrying ability.

Interestingly, dominos cruise speed of 8 knots has a similar fuel burn to our boat at 8 knots
 
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I definately think power cats for cruising are great.
If money was no object and we were looking at spending nordhavn money it would be no contest, a well designed and lightly built 60ft plus powercat all the way.
 
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I definately think power cats for cruising are great.
If money was no object and we were looking at spending nordhavn money it would be no contest, a well designed and lightly built 60ft plus powercat all the way.

Agree, and that’s IF money were truly no object, but my style would be more in the line of an Aquilla 44 or 48 with my own interior appointments. I know myself. I’d still be looking for a bargain.
 
Interestingly, dominos cruise speed of 8 knots has a similar fuel burn to our boat at 8 knots

That is amazing, and seems impossible that your boat can travel at 8 knots on 2.3gph. That is slightly better than my 40'er at closer to 6.5 knots, and it only weighs 22k lb.
 
I did say similar
I was a bit off
We do close enough to 15lph@8 knots
She does close enough to 17lph@10

But that fuel saving would cost me several hundred thousands of dollars to get
And would take several hundreds of thousands of nm to break even on the capital outlay
Average over 8 years:

- Range: 6,000 NM at 10 Kts (10,000 NM at 7.5Kts)

- Burn: 4.5GPH at 10 Kts (1050rpm). 1.8GPH at 7.5 Kts (900rpm)
 
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I have read through these threads, and they don’t reflect knowledge of cats. As to room, a 40’ Cat will have twice the room as a monohull. Our Endeavour 44 trawler cat has 3 queen beds, one walk around, 2 heads with walk in showers and fresh water electric heads, a large and comfortable saloon, long galley (down in port hull) with propane stove and oven, refrig and freezer, separate freezer, double sink and tons of storage, the engines are aft in each hull, but the entire bunk hinges up and you can walk into the engine space
A displacement hull is not going to cruise at 20 knots or even 15, but a semi displacement will plane, and the Endeavour, with 2, 240 Yanmar diesels, will get on a plane at around 3000 rpms, and average 12 - 14 knots. She will do more at full throttle but that is not realistic.
The room and livability on this boat is fantastic
Jack
 
One day I hope to be knowledgeable about cats. So far only 30,000nm of ocean passages on a 46' sail cat including a circumnavigation. On our second powercat now and actively looking for the third. I'll get there eventually.

You absolutely can achieve 15 kn in a displacement powercat, 20 if you want to.
The displacement version of our current boat is a great example:

Kingfisher 1200 Displacement Powercat - Alloy Cats

You can not achieve good displacement performance in a powercat with hulls that are too fat, or if built or loaded to heavily.
 
I have followed the thread with interest as it tries to address precisely the question I have been asking myself. I agree about the Aspen proas - they are beauties. However, I live in Europe and that clearly makes a US boat impractical. There is a powercat new on the market here in Europe that roughly equates to the old PDQ34 ... it's called the Aventura 10 and is being built in Tunisia for a French company; it retails for approx. $275,000 and is category B (offshore) rated.

For what it's worth, I am currently talking to a UK sailing cat maker called Broadblue - their smallest cruiser offering is a lovely-looking 34ft/10m boat with a narrow beam of only 4.85m, specifically so that it fits into cheaper monohull marina berths (one of the points of contention in this thread so far) and also through French inland waterways/canal locks. Interestingly, they happen to have been pondering offering a powerboat version but are waiting for an initial customer before committing to the necessary hull mould changes. The price point is very similar to the Aventura 10 at £160,000 barebones, with probably around £115,000 in necessary/desirable extras, but the rating classification is category A (blue water).

My thinking is that (1) such a craft, if fitted out with the latest green technology (i.e. electric engine and lithium batteries with solar and wind turbine add-ons), could operate as a technology demonstrator creating a separate income stream from commercial sales commissions; and (2) while its non-fancy looks will not attract the typical gin palace buyer it may well find a good market among those retiring from classical sailing as it gives arguably more 'street cred' amidst their own kind in the marina even if not fossil-fuel free ...

Other options one might consider are e.g. approaching François Lucas, a French marine architect I have been talking to who has the complete plans for a 38ft aluminium powercat also rated Cat. A (one vessel built a few years ago but no further takers) for sale at €3,600, or the Australian boat builders who have manufacturing yards in Thailand (there are several of these), making what seem to be quality vessels at affordable prices - the challenge here would be to either have them shipped across oceans or take delivery in SE Asia. Some of them also offer kits for self-build/completion which might suit those with some handiwork talent and plenty of time on their hands ...

I can't help thinking that the entire marine leisure market is on the cusp of a major green revolution, and yet the main industry players are very slow off the starting blocks - so this might just be the right time for a smaller player to step up to the mark and make a modest fortune in the process?
 
Mr. Doing, I like your enthusiasm and hope your project moves forward.

I disagree that the industry is about to embark on a green revolution. Energy storage technology is not even close enough to being practical for a cruising boat. If yours is a harbor boat doing 4 knots then perhaps, or a sailboat that only needs to maneuver into its slip then sure.

However if you’re serious about a new build in aluminum then I can recommend a very good small shipyard in Cambodia. I would have hired them except I decided to go either steel or fiberglass, not AL.
 
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