Help me diagnose this....

Apparently you're unfamiliar with the term "caveat emptor" (buyer beware). Of course a supplier isn't gonna tell buyers that anything he sells doesn't work worth a damn. That's what makes user reviews and user experience on discussions valuable.

They don't claim it WON'T permeate, that it has "excellent odor resistance," which is pretty vague. The length of the warranty is a pretty glue...the best sanitaion hoses have at least a 5 year warranty against odor permeation...I could find no mention of ANY warranty on ANY of their products anywhere including their own product catalog. http://marinehose.com/mpi/MPI%20Product%20Catalog.pdf

Besides...define "limited lifespan." It may or may not permeate with odor quickly (as was my experience on my own boats), but does it fall apart or leak any sooner than any other hose? I've never heard of that happening. So where are the grounds for any charge of misrepresentation? Do you really expect the cheapest version of anything to be the same quality as the most expensive?

He bought an older boat that needs a lot of work (translation:a lot of $$$$)...he found a hose that solves his immediate problem (he can now flush the toilet) for a price within his budget. If it starts to stink, I can put him onto a "band aid" for under $5 that can prob'ly buy him another year.

So if he's happy, thats all that matters.

--Peggie
"If you can't explain it to a six year old, you don't completely understand it yourself." --Albert Einstein

I think we can all remember being exactly where he has been. No fun getting the message after doing the job too. Oh well, there are worse things. Besides, as far as I can tell, he has not had the privilege of being tied up at a marina, miles from home, banging sanitation hose against the dock in front of god and everyone trying to unclog the unthinkable deposited by some nameless relative. On THAT day, the things that are really important will become crystal clear. I wouldn’t trade it for the world, well maybe I would. Just a reminder that everybody gets to start at the beginning. Neither does he yet have the context of who is truly time and again there to help, never to criticize. It’s easy for me to take for granted, but then I can still clearly recall getting help from the very same Peggy literally 20 years ago, so I don’t have to second guess a thing. Strong hint hint for the OP, this one might truly be the one that has your best interests at heart and has no satisfaction in simply making a point.

Anyhow, job done well. I used the cheap hose for years before I knew better, just flush a lot of water. It will get the job done for now. Last time I did all 48 feet of my boat I used the expensive stuff, that was about 8 or 9 years ago and now that I’ve lost almost all sense of smell, not my problem! Wooo. Always look on the bright side.

ghost said:

I think we can all remember being exactly where he has been. No fun getting the message after doing the job too. Oh well, there are worse things. Besides, as far as I can tell, he has not had the privilege of being tied up at a marina, miles from home, banging sanitation hose against the dock in front of god and everyone trying to unclog the unthinkable deposited by some nameless relative. On THAT day, the things that are really important will become crystal clear. I wouldn’t trade it for the world, well maybe I would. Just a reminder that everybody gets to start at the beginning. Neither does he yet have the context of who is truly time and again there to help, never to criticize. It’s easy for me to take for granted, but then I can still clearly recall getting help from the very same Peggy literally 20 years ago, so I don’t have to second guess a thing. Strong hint hint for the OP, this one might truly be the one that has your best interests at heart and has no satisfaction in simply making a point.

Anyhow, job done well. I used the cheap hose for years before I knew better, just flush a lot of water. It will get the job done for now. Last time I did all 48 feet of my boat I used the expensive stuff, that was about 8 or 9 years ago and now that I’ve lost almost all sense of smell, not my problem! Wooo. Always look on the bright side.

Click to expand...

Ghost, excellent post. I agree that toocoys has succeeded in solving his immediate problem without costing him too much. Nicely done!

I also agree with you in regards to Peggie.

You mentioned it flushed with fresh water and it doesn’t have a rubber impeller. I think you’ve got a Jabsco Quiet Flush. Here is a link to the service manual.
http://www.xylemflowcontrol.com/files/37045_43000-0618-GB.pdf

Reminder,

My dad was a plumber , on land, his motto was ,

"It washes off",

I have found this to be true on boats too.

No Fear!

Aaaaaaaaaa, Gloves??? Just a thought. Lol

Unfortunately I cannot go back and edit my responses, so I’ll leave this here.

http://www.trawlerforum.com/forums/s51/my-apologies-40395.html

HopCar said:

You mentioned it flushed with fresh water and it doesn’t have a rubber impeller. I think you’ve got a Jabsco Quiet Flush. Here is a link to the service manual.
http://www.xylemflowcontrol.com/files/37045_43000-0618-GB.pdf

Click to expand...

I think I've created new problems.

In fact the pump does state that it's a Quiet Flush, however after reviewing the xylem files for both the 37010 series that Peggy mentioned, and the 37045 that you mentioned, there are discrepancies on both.

The 37010 diagram shows the fresh water line coming off the pump to the back of the toilet, my fresh water comes from somewhere in the boat - I'm assuming direct from the tank because when we flush the 12v water pump that supplies the boat will turn on.

The 37045 shows to have a separate water pump and a dual switch plate. I only have one button that activates fresh water and discharge at the same time.

So I'm not quite sure what I have. I wonder if its been frankensteined.

Either way I'm going to have to rebuild the pump, or the head itself because it seems to be leaking fresh water from somewhere.

ETA: I need to quit reading. I don't think we have a vented loop, and if my toilet is connected to my potable water tank as I suspect it is I'm going to be completely disgusted.

If it's a 37045 QF, and a standard installation -- likely on a Mainship, I think -- then there's a one-way solenoid on the freshwater supply line TO the toilet bowl. That's what isolates bowl from freshwater tanks. The bowl inlets are around the top of the rim, too, so unless you fill that sucker to overflowing, you shouldn't see effluent approaching your input.

If you're having a leak near where the outlet hose leaves the bowl, it could just be a failing joker valve seal. Those three screws are "special" BTW, blunt tipped... so be careful you don't replace those screws (if necessary) with off-the-shelf screws that are too long. (That info from Paul Campagna at Xylem/Jabsco.)

If the leak is coming from the macerator/pump assembly, there's a rebuild kit. OTOH, it's a relatively inexpensive pump assembly, and when I tried the rebuild kit first... no joy... whereas replacing the whole pump assembly was easier, faster anyway. If your pump hasn't ever been rebuilt, might be elegant to replace with new and rebuild the old for spares.

Our "button" is actually a three-way thingy. Red "bomb shell" button flushes and supplies new fresh water simultaneously. A two-way rocker switch under that either flushes without fill, or fills without flush, depending on activation direction.

-Chris

Both the 37010 and the 37245 are sea water toilets...the -010 has an integral intake impeller, the -245 uses a remote intake pump. The 37045 is the freshwater toilet. As for the flush button, it's entirely possible that the original toilet was a 37010--which has a single button--and the PO replaced it, most likely with a "conversion" instead of the complete toilet (everything south of the bowl) Jabsco 37055 Quiet-Flush Pressurized Fresh Water Conversion Kit that turns it into an -045, but didn't bother to replace the flush button. And from both your description as well as the condition of the plumbing, it doesn't appear that he plumbed it correctly either. The flush water intake line on most fresh water toilets is teed into to the cold water line in the head leading to the head sink. As you'll see in the instructions here Jabsco 37055 Conversion Kit owners manual , there should be a solenoid valve in that line that works kinda like a faucet...it opens to allow pressurized water to flow to the bowl, closes to stop it. That would require that the boat's fresh water pump already be on...the toilet doesn't turn it on. Shouldn't be too hard to correct. You'll have a buy a solenoid valve and I'd use a shut off valve instead of just a tee 'cuz that lets you turn off just the water to the toilet to work on it instead of having to turn off the boat's water pump.

At least I hope that's what he did...that he didn't just jury rig a a 37010 to use fresh water. If he did, I'd replace it with a conversion...but not necessarily a Jabsco.

--Peggie
"If you can't explain it to a six year old, you don't completely understand it yourself." --Albert Einstein

Ahhhhh.....a tee in the sink line! Now that does match something that I recognize.

Once I sleep off last nights graveyard shift I’ll start poking around and taking photos.

As Peggie pointed out, the Quiet Flush is available in either raw or fresh water flush. The raw water (salt in most cases) requires an extra pump. The ones that use fresh water from your tanks are supplied by your existing pressure water system. No additional pump needed.

The reason these are called Quiet Flush is that the regular toilet, 37010, has an impeller Pump built in. The impeller Pump is quite noisy. The Quiet Flush toilet’s allow you to use a quieter remotely mounted pump to supply the flush water.

'The 37010 diagram shows the fresh water line coming off the pump to the back of the toilet, my fresh water comes from somewhere in the boat - I'm assuming direct from the tank because when we flush the 12v water pump that supplies the boat will turn on."

This is very dangerous as an anti siphon valve is required to keep waste from backing into the FW system.

Perhaps relying on the solenoid works to stop this , but as they say , "Stuff happens".

Anti-siphon valves are cheap insurance .

FF said:

This is very dangerous as an anti siphon valve is required to keep waste from backing into the FW system.

Perhaps relying on the solenoid works to stop this , but as they say , "Stuff happens".

Anti-siphon valves are cheap insurance .

Click to expand...

I realize that, which is why I'm concerned. However, I really think that the fresh water is from a T in the sink lines. I haven't been able to look yet and investigate it more. Tomorrow I'll be crawling around in the hole trying to get things in order.

I can’t see how waste water in that toilet (same as mine) can possibly back up into the potable water. As another poster stated, the water is introduced into the rim of the bowl, it is controlled by a solenoid and unless you filled it to overflowing (have you ever done this?) the waste cannot mix unless the bowl is overflowing, the water pressure is zero and the solenoid fails open. I think it’s unreasonable to spread such nonsense. Show me how that can happen and I will apologize but otherwise it’s claptrap.

There must be thousands of marine toilets that are designed to use water from the potable water tanks. I’ve never heard of any of them contaminating the water tanks. The OP’s toilet is designed to flush safely with tank water.

As Xsbank pointed out there are at least two barriers to black water contaminating the potable water. First there is the air gap in the bowl between the black water and the rim and then there is the solenoid valve.

Over on Cruisers forum thiswas discussed and the discussion was'

Re: Jabsco Electric Toilet Conversion to Fresh Water
Our Lagoon 450S has Jabsco's quiet flush electric toilets. In order to minimize any odor issues, I have considered converting to fresh water flush.

"Avoiding contamination of your freshwater system is the primary concern. Jabsco has a conversion kit specifically for converting to pressurized fresh water -Model No.: 37055-Series. I'd check that out."
__________________

Peggy had a unique setup to save FW ,

"If your head drain thru-hulls are below waterline, there's an easier solution that doesn't put your potable water supply at risk: Reroute the flush water inlet line to tee into the head sink drain line. The tee needs to be below waterline as close to the seacock as possible. This allows you to continue flushing with sea water--thus conserving your fresh water--except when in coastal waters that are too skanky to want to use, but provides a safe source of fresh water to rinse all the sea water out of the system before the boat will sit, or even daily if you want to: simply close the sink drain thru-hull, fill the sink with clean fresh water, flush the toilet. Because the seacock is closed, the toilet will pull the water out of the sink , rinsing out the entire system--inlet line, channel in the rim of the bowl, pump assembly and toilet discharge line. Total cost: the price of a tee fitting."

https://www.go2marine.com/product/9...MIi7Wju5613QIVxrbACh0WmwIREAQYAiABEgKilPD_BwE

Xsbank said:

I can’t see how waste water in that toilet (same as mine) can possibly back up into the potable water. As another poster stated, the water is introduced into the rim of the bowl, it is controlled by a solenoid and unless you filled it to overflowing (have you ever done this?) the waste cannot mix unless the bowl is overflowing, the water pressure is zero and the solenoid fails open. I think it’s unreasonable to spread such nonsense. Show me how that can happen and I will apologize but otherwise it’s claptrap.

Click to expand...

Toilets that are designed to use onboard pressurized fresh water can safely be connected to the potable water supply because the necessary vacuum breakers and backflow preventers are built into the toilets. It's SEA WATER toilets that should never be connected to the freshwater plumbing...NOT because waste in the bowl can contaminate the potable water supply--you're right, it can't unless a blockage causes bowl contents to rise to the rim--but because BACTERIA in the bowl are active li'l buggers that multiply and CAN migrate into the channel in the rim of the bowl and into the fresh water plumbing from there. A long shot, but it can and has happened.

A bigger problem is when people try to have it both ways with a sea water toilet--to plumb a sea water toilet to use both sea water and fresh water by using only a y-valve in the flush water intake line to switch between them. That can allow sea water to mix with fresh and contaminate the fresh water supply, especially if the toilet is connected to fresh water ahead of the fresh water pump. There are a couple of toilets designed to be able to switch between fresh water and sea water, but they're toilets designed to use pressurized fresh water primarily and so need a remote intake pump AND have two separate inlet fittings on the bowl, and also a kit that isolates the two flush water sources.

--Peggie
"If you can't explain it to a six year old, you don't completely understand it yourself." --Albert Einstein

As a manual toilet fan safety is really simple.

When we get to weak to move the toilet handle its time to stay ashore.

The toilet is always hooked to sea water , but when leaving the boat for a few days or weeks the flush pedal is not used and the shower hand spray is used to fill the bowl for a final flush.

KISS

BAM!! Found my solenoid switch. It T’s off from the cold water from the sink, goes through this switch, then down to the back of the toilet. They certainly took the long way around though. The line snakes through all kinds of spaces before exiting to the head.

Any idea why there appear to be 2 water hose connections to the toilet? What's the black thing sitting on the gray thing...is it's supposed to be the solenoid valve? If so, it's not installed correctly...it's supposed to be on top of vented loop. (see photo) What IS the gray thing? And obviously something leaks or has leaked or there wouldn't be a plastic jar under that connection. Where do those hoses go? I've never seen anything quite like this...no wonder you've had so much trouble sorting it out!

HeadMistress said:

Any idea why there appear to be 2 water hose connections to the toilet? What's the black thing sitting on the gray thing...is it's supposed to be the solenoid valve? If so, it's not installed correctly...it's supposed to be on top of vented loop. (see photo) What IS the gray thing? And obviously something leaks or has leaked or there wouldn't be a plastic jar under that connection. Where do those hoses go? I've never seen anything quite like this...no wonder you've had so much trouble sorting it out!

Click to expand...

The black thing on the gray thing is the solenoid switch I guess, the two wires I’m sure go to the flush button.

I have no idea what the gray things is. Your guess is as good as mine right now.

So as Best I can figure out the hot and cold come up to the sink (gray lines) They t off and go around to the shower faucet. The cold has an additional T that goes to the toilet (white line).

And I assume that t connection has dropped before which is why the cup is there. I did not put that there. I’ll have to caulk or redo that connection eventually.

I’m just glad I’ve figured out most of the plumbing in there. At least now I know what everything is and where it goes to.

ETA: could that gray thing be a pressure regulator?

This is what the Jabsco solenoid valve / vacuum breaker looks like.
Not sure what you’ve got there. Maybe an older model?

I think you’ve got it figured out. The water comes from the tee to the gray thing with the black solenoid and big black knob on top.

The solenoid opens the valve and allows the water to flow to the next gray thing which looks like it might be a pressure regulator to me as well.

Water then flows to the toilet through the white tube.

The tubes look small to me but maybe that’s all you need.

I bet the big black knob on top allows you to manually open the valve.

The grey thing looks exactly like a lawn sprinkler anti siphon valve. Available at HD or Lowes.

Bill

New issues.... this time with the forward head.

The other night we apparently flipped the breaker for the stereo on and inadvertently turned the macerator pump on. Now the through hull was closed so the macerator pump ran without actually pumping anything overboard, but it did run pretty much all night because we didnt' hear it.

The next day we noticed that the forward head was FULL of fresh water. It has filled up by itself at least once more today that I know of. Almost as if the solenoid switch isn't turning off now and stopping the inflow of fresh water.

This also happened two days after we flushed toilet paper for the first time.

Could all of this be related, or could the solenoid just gone bad since its been our primary head and it hasn't been used this much in quite some time?

Greetings,
Mr. t. You weren't, perhaps, playing this song were you? Just trying to connect the dots...

I'm betting a failed solenoid in the flush water line filled the bowl. They have a high failure rate, and sitting unused for an extended period doesn't help 'em, plus--based on photos you posted in a previous thread, it's not installed correctly either. And either your holding tank had very little in it or it overflowed out the vent 'cuz the water in the bowl had to be draining out or the bowl would have overflowed, flooding the head. It has to be just a coincidence that this happened after you flushed TP for the first time, 'cuz everything you describe involves INcoming flush water...nothing to do with the toilet discharge.

According to the owners manual, the "duty cycle" for a macerator pump is 15 minutes, so it's unlikely that it actually ran all night because it has "run dry protection" that turns off the motor if it overheats (which is prob'ly why you didn't hear it). However, it's a good bet that the impeller is toast.


-Peggie

Well I’ve found the solenoid valve for the forward head. Now I’ve got to figure out what to replace it with and how to get that done.

Well, as I’ve learned this entire boat has been retro-bubba’d from raw water to entirely fresh water. And I’m doing so they used 24v AC solenoid
Valves from your local hardware stores irrigation department. It’s good because instead of a $120 marine valve, it only cost me $15 to replace. But apparently there’s some kind of transformer somewhere or some electrical changes that I need to be more careful with in the future. I’ll be having a certified electrician come and give it a look and get me a quote for sorting things out.

As we learned some debris got into the diaphragm on the old valve and caused a small dent in the rubber which didn’t allow it to seal good, thus causing the trickle of water. I replaced it with this $15 Rainbird valve for now. Seems to be working perfectly.