Stop Solenoid question...

When stopping my port engine my solenoid continues to click when I am pushing the switch AFTER the engine stops. Clicking stops when I let go. It's never done that before and the starboard doesn't do it. Engine stops fine. Sign of the solenoid going bad? Anything in particular I should check?

I suspect it clicks when the engine is coasting down to a stop, but you can't hear it then, right?

Put a voltmeter on the solenoid terminals and watch the voltage while it clicks. If it just varies a half volt or so then the wiring is probably ok and it is likely a solenoid problem. If it varies more, then the wiring probably has a bad connection which is letting the solenoid drop out and then try to pull back in causing the clicking sound.

Check all connections back to the stop switch and beyond for good voltage while holding the stop switch down.

David

Thanks DJ, appreciate you giving some direction. I'm, um, electrically challenged. Among other things.

Be sure to check and clean connections. Stop solenoids and any associated relays are notorious for dirty connections causing things like you described. Start simple and go from there.

Also check to see if the solenoid has moved. Some are adjustable and if it moved to where the plunger cannot be pulled all the way in it can release and re engage (which sounds like what you are describing)

Easiest and cheapest thing is to change out the relay that energizes the stop solenoid. They're automotive quality and available at auto parts stores.


Presuming, of course, that your system is anything like mine...

You didn’t mention engine type. I have had bad luck with non OEM stop solenoids on our 6BT Cummins. Twice they failed in less than 6 months. The failure mode was the leaked back through the connection terminal.

Dave:


Don't Cummins engines use an energize to run solenoid, not a stop solenoid?


David

djmarchand said:

Dave:


Don't Cummins engines use an energize to run solenoid, not a stop solenoid?


David

Click to expand...

I don't know about all Cummins, but ours is energize to run.

Thanks everyone. The solenoid is on a 1987 Ford Lehman SP135. Stop's the engine fine...just keeps on clicking until I let off the push switch.

djmarchand said:

Dave:


Don't Cummins engines use an energize to run solenoid, not a stop solenoid?


David

Click to expand...

There is an available "European option" which uses a stop solenoid and fuel is always on. At least that used to be the case.
The power on solenoids are different depending on which injection pump you have.

It could also be the button.

Thanks CEC, sort of laughing about it after reading your post....it very well could be. I know I'm not the only one who overlooks the possible simple solutions to things.

firstbase said:

Thanks everyone. The solenoid is on a 1987 Ford Lehman SP135. Stop's the engine fine...just keeps on clicking until I let off the push switch.

Click to expand...

When you say it keeps on clicking do you mean you hold the switch down continually and the solenoid clicks multiple times?

Ken

Yes it could be the weitch itself. I had a stop switch go bad.

kchace said:

When you say it keeps on clicking do you mean you hold the switch down continually and the solenoid clicks multiple times?

Ken

Click to expand...

Yes, it continues clicking after the engine stops as long as I am holding the push switch in. Starboard side does not.

firstbase said:

Yes, it continues clicking after the engine stops as long as I am holding the push switch in. Starboard side does not.

Click to expand...

Ok. It should click only once when you push the button. The relay and the solenoid should stay energized the whole time you hold the button. If you have a normal Lehman setup there should be a relay that gets energized by the button which in turn energizes the stop solenoid. Although I suppose it's possible you have a direct from switch to solenoid setup - it is not the best setup.

The solenoid itself (which is what actually pulls the stop lever) doesn't make much noise so I'm guessing you're hearing the relay clicking. I think you have either a bad relay or poor connections to it. When it switches the current to the solenoid the voltage drops too low to hold the relay and it releases. When it releases the voltage goes back up and causes it to pull back in and the cycle repeats. One thing going for you is you have twins so you can compare. And you can try it while the engine isn't running so you can see and meter what's happening.

Ken

When my button went bad it was from vibration I believe. The nut wiggled loose a bit and the soldered connections on the back were wiggled loose. Simply touching the button a little would cause the clicking noise. Any arcing connection could cause the relay to fire off and on. I started using the anti-vibration liquid on the threads for things like the linkage and screws that connect the wires. Its almost on everything that gets loose or rattles right now and its helping a lot - from the windshield screws, Bimini screws, some rail connection screws ext.. I'm using that blue stuff that you let dry on the threads before screwing back on.. Anyways, I hope you get it resolved and at least the parts are not too expensive for this one.. Good luck!

Yes, it depends on which fuel pump is installed. I think the multi-piston (like Bosch) pumps have stop solenoids and ones like mine with the Lucas CAV pump us "run" solenoids. Which brings up a question of mine. I noticed that the original stop lever is still there. I want to eliminate the run solenoid and replace it with a pull cable, like in the old days. Is there a quick and easy way to disable the run solenoid? With a run solenoid if you lose electrics the engine shuts off. Happened to me once and I don't like it. Any suggestions?

Unrelated except that it happened to me on my 1972 Grand Banks. When somebody mentioned a stuck button, I was reminded of my issues with STARTER buttons. One stuck in 2012 and burned up a stater. I replaced all four of them (flybridge and lower helm).

Call Brian at http://americandieselcorp.com/ 804-435-3107. Recall that his dad (Bob) co-designed the Lehman Ford marinized diesel. I took Bob's diesel class at a TrawlerFest. Had to tear it down and rebuild it. Then take it outside and fire it up. Runnnnnnn. LOL

Also, you might want to sign up for the next class (Bob's deceased) but run by another guru. It's 2 days and they fill up usually within a day of the announcement. https://www.passagemaker.com/trawlerfest

Alrighty . . . Nigel Calder & Steve Zimmerman are teaching the diesel engine class. If anyone could step in for Bob Smith, they can. Do take a look at Nigel's landmark books "Marine Diesel Engines: Maintenance, Troubleshooting, and Repair" and Boatowners Mechanical and Electrical Manual 4/Ed

Also, Brian my be able to get you a copy of the spare parts list for the 120 of items to carry with you.

OP here. Went to the boat and...it's not doing it anymore. It DID do it though. Several times in a row. So, will clean connections from switch/button back to the relay and see if anything happens in the future. I did check the electrical connections and they seemd solid as a rock but who knows.

On the classes, I took several including Nigel and Zimmermans "Everything You Need To Know About Diesel Engines" 2 day course at Trawlerfest this past spring. Good basic education on some things but nothing beats you-know-what happening and then coming in here with the issue. Then I go back and figure out what I can. My take is that every boat is different and until I do it on MY boat then all I have is a little limited book knowledge.

Very wise comment. I had 24 years experience in US Navy ships including command of a diesel powered salvage ship followed by 29 years owning a GB42 with twin Lehman 120s before I switched to this boat with an ENTIRELY different type main engine (Yanmar 315 HP turbo-charged) and generator. I felt like a neophyte with this beast for at least a year until I have been over and over it installing improvements and doing some catch-up maintenance like intercooler maintenance and timing belt change.

Stop solenoid

I have Lehman SP135 mains and the relay failed and energized the stop solenoid which burnt out with arm stuck on and took me an hour to get engine stopped as I tried everything except reaching into a hot, running motor to fool with linkages until I decided I had no choice but to reach into a hot, running motor and got it stopped. I shut off fuel supply but 30 minutes later was still thrumming away. New relay only $10 but stop solenoid was, I think, $180 from American Diesel.
Eddie and Gail

rgano said:

Very wise comment.

Click to expand...

Ha! I am not exactly known for wise comments here on TF so thanks.

Eddieandgail said:

I have Lehman SP135 mains and the relay failed and energized the stop solenoid which burnt out with arm stuck on and took me an hour to get engine stopped as I tried everything except reaching into a hot, running motor to fool with linkages until I decided I had no choice but to reach into a hot, running motor and got it stopped. I shut off fuel supply but 30 minutes later was still thrumming away. New relay only $10 but stop solenoid was, I think, $180 from American Diesel.
Eddie and Gail

Click to expand...

Maybe I should preemptively replace the relay. Again, this did happen and if it happened once and then stopped it was because the boat gods said "You know, he is comfortably tied up in his slip. What's the fun in that? Let's wait until a more exciting time to do this."

Eddie/Gail, if the same happened to me my knowledge of stopping the engine would end with trying to pull the arm manually and then cutting fuel. Wouldn't have a clue what to do beyond that.

firstbase said:

Ha! I am not exactly known for wise comments here on TF so thanks.



Maybe I should preemptively replace the relay. Again, this did happen and if it happened once and then stopped it was because the boat gods said "You know, he is comfortably tied up in his slip. What's the fun in that? Let's wait until a more exciting time to do this."

Eddie/Gail, if the same happened to me my knowledge of stopping the engine would end with trying to pull the arm manually and then cutting fuel. Wouldn't have a clue what to do beyond that.

Click to expand...

Manually pulling the engine stop lever on the Lehman will stop it immediately and is in a relatively easy to get at location.


Ken

[/QUOTE] Eddie/Gail, if the same happened to me my knowledge of stopping the engine would end with trying to pull the arm manually and then cutting fuel. Wouldn't have a clue what to do beyond that.[/QUOTE]

You can take the air filter element off of a FL120 to uncover the large diameter air tube. Take something like a cutting board (not the floppy ones they sell nowadays) and slap it right across the tube and you are stopped.

If that engine you cut off fuel supply went on for a half hour, you have other sources of fuel like huge filters full of fuel, another connection of which you are unaware, or the sump oil is being consumed in a runaway, which is really bad.