More Grey Water Discussion

We are currently at Longbranch in South Puget Sound. There are signs posted that say discharge of grey water in the marina is prohibited. I was told the state made them put the signs up. That means no washing your hands after using the toilet, no washing the dinner dishes, and no showers. So you better use hand sanitizer, paper plates, and deodorant (they do not have shower facilities at Longbranch). From the Washington State Dept of Ecology: "We highly recommend you use pumpout facilities to dispose of grey water and sewage and not pump overboard. If you do not have access to a pumpout station, we strongly encourage you to move farther than 1 nautical mile from shore (or as far as is safe for your vessel up to 1 nautical mile) before discharging your grey water overboard." 1 mile offshore in much of Puget Sound is pretty hard to do.

It appears that the Soundkeepers (enviro-activist thugs) have been very busy lately. Gray water has been high on all the enviro-zealots agenda nationwide for a number of years, so it's not surprising that the Soundkeepers have moved on to it now that they've accomplished their goal of turning Puget Sound into an NDZ. Look for it start happening in a lot of places. They can only target marinas because they're private property and can make any rules they want too as long as they don't supersede federal law. But I wouldn't believe for a single minute that your marina is banning gray water because the state made them do it--although the thugs may have told 'em they did. And If you read the notice from the WA DoE carefully, you'll see that they don't REQUIRE you to hold gray water, they "strongly encourage" you to do so.


--Peggie

I'm curious about a few things. Will any marina actually try to enforce their rules. What will they do to you if they see you emptying your sink or taking a shower. How will yacht clubs respond, will they stop having gatherings at marinas with grey water rules. Will boat manufacturers start putting grey water tanks in new builds.

Seems to me there should be a caveat regarding ability to use biodegradable soap.

Washing hands, showering, even washing [well scrapped clean of food stuff] dishes would not overload the waterways.

Heck... we going to have to swim in a big plastic baggie so that our body perspiration, dirt, or other items don't pollute the waters. God Forbid if some urinates!

Will I be excused for exhaling carbon dioxide or passing gas? ... The defenders of the environment might as well exterminate humans from the planet.

markpierce said:

Will I be excused for exhaling carbon dioxide or passing gas? ... The defenders of the environment might as well exterminate humans from the planet.

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Good point!
I would not go advocating extermination,but imo much of the world`s pollution comes from overpopulation.
Seems to me the "grey water" ban is a step way too far. Next will be "fish emissions", followed by "exhaust emissions" and then exhaust "water heating".

BruceK said:

Good point!
I would not go advocating extermination,but imo much of the world`s pollution comes from overpopulation.
Seems to me the "grey water" ban is a step way too far. Next will be "fish emissions", followed by "exhaust emissions" and then exhaust "water heating".

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How about unbelievable pollution caused by dust runoff from boats when it rains or a stiff wind blows those nasty little dust-particles off the decks, cockpit and superstructure.

Can't have too much dirty ol' boat dust-particles hitting the water... may clog up the big/bad overflow conduits from land based sewage treatment plants that hugely flood-over during rains and are some of the biggggest/baddddest real culprits for near shore water pollution!

markpierce said:

Will I be excused for exhaling carbon dioxide or passing gas? ... The defenders of the environment might as well exterminate humans from the planet.

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You are point on Mark.

Jessie Ventura's "Conspiracy Theory" TV show, of a few years ago, had a segment regarding the top level of global influence planning a huge human extermination system.

The supposed story [from inside sources] was that the world's hidden rulers wanted to eliminate all but 500 million humans. Because, scientists working for them calculated that 500M humans is what Earth's ecosystem/natural-environment is equipped to handle.

500M number of humans left living sounds about right to me, for Earth to handle. How bout you; what # of living souls sounds good to you!?!?

Only problems:

1. Who to kill
2. Just how to kill em all... economically of course
3. And, very importantly/uncomfortably - what to do with a sudden influx of 7.5 billion rotting corpuses.

Can't toss the bodies in lakes, rivers, bays, oceans... stench and spreading disease would be rampant. And, OMG the beach clean up of fleshy bones would go on for decades!

Can't incinerate them all... atmosphere is already overloaded from human caused fossil fuel waste, and, the smell of air - ugh.

Can't give em all a decent burial - way too much work. Would make some headstone manufacturers rich though! LOL

I know, I know - Drop all 7.5B dead bodies into vacant salt mines and toss plenty of lime on each "body-level". Then seal the mines off with millions of cubic yards concrete and open a Disneyland on top of each... for the remaining 500M humans to enjoy.

Or!!! Get Élan Musk to have Space X rockets dump all the bodies on dark side of the moon! Yeah - that's the ticket!! Hide them all in the big dark deep freeze of the moon's other side.


Thus the old saying: "Out of sight... out of mind" really comes into play!!

Will any marina actually try to enforce their rules?
The same ones actually enforce their "no discharge" for toilet waste in waters where the discharge of treated waste is legal will try...and there will always be owners in those marinas who'll report any boat from which they see gray water discharging from above-waterline thru-hulls.

What will they do to you if they see you emptying your sink or taking a shower.
They can kick you out of their marina. Whether they actually will or not depends on whether they can afford to lose your monthly slip rent.

How will yacht clubs respond, will they stop having gatherings at marinas with grey water rules.
Some will. Those who support the ban won't.

Will boat manufacturers start putting grey water tanks in new builds.
Except for a very few who are committed to "doing the right thing," they're not gonna do anything that adds to their cost until/unless new legislation requires them to. Till then, it'll be only as an add-on option paid for by the buyer.

And btw, the regs prohibit combining gray and black water in the same tank because of the possibility that bacteria from the sewage can migrate into sinks and showers via the sink drains. There are a very few inland lakes--Lake George NY, Winnipesaukee in NH and a couple of others--where the discharge of both toilet waste and gray water has been banned since before there were any federal NDZ laws. Because few if any boats the size of those going into those lakes have any room to add a gray water tank, dealers have no choice but to route the gray water into the black water tank.

I can understand banning the use of clothes washers and dishwashers in a marina because of the volume of soapy water from 'em. But banning gray water altogether is just one more example of enviro-protection overkill. I expect bilge water to be next.

--Peggie

"How about unbelievable pollution caused by dust runoff from boats when it rains or a stiff wind blows those nasty little dust-particles off the decks, cockpit and superstructure. "


Most dust/dirt left on boats after a shower are condensation nuclei , the particle the raindrop needed to condense into a drop.


No condensation nuclei, no rain, a rather dire condition.

What about all the runoff from the soaps, cleaners, polishes and preservatives used on the exterior of most boats? Who even knows what is in most of them? Has Woody Wax, Island Girl, StarBrite, or even 3M ever done any real testing of the long term impact of their ingredients on anything or anyone? I’ve never seen an MSDS for any chemical I’ve ever applied to the exterior of my boat although I assume they are available. There must be thousands of gallons of these products sold every year and it all has to be going somewhere after it’s been applied.......

What about marina providing sump connection at the dock like for water or power so boats would be able to connect and use regular sewage? This would be a very nice thing for me even if the boat setup is not geared for it

L

Heck - What about breathing!?!? Vapor from our lungs during exhale might soon need to be captured in a back-pack type of "holding tank" and then pumped out to a treatment facility! LOL


This "purity" BS law-crap regarding pleasure boats is truly getting nuts!

Peggie, thank you for your comments. I can see that I am going to become more involved in RBAW, the Recreational Boating Association of Washington.

porman said:

Peggie, thank you for your comments. I can see that I am going to become more involved in RBAW, the Recreational Boating Association of Washington.

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Yup. The Puget Sound NDZ was a bad idea based on politics not science. Boating organizations worked hard to stop that, but I think they may have gotten too late a start. The problem is that recreational boaters don’t have a consistent political lobby.

I’ve said it before, but just as we try to spend a little time and money on preventive maintenance on our boats, we should be spending a little time and money on preventive political maintenance. It does little good to write an email to our state legislator or member of congress after a bill is being presented in committee. Instead, we should get to know our political representatives so that we can pick up the phone and they will take the call. We can go to the capitol and they will take the time to schedule an appointment. Usually, the only way to get to know them at this level is to donate to their campaigns, go to their fundraising events, offer to put out yard signs, doorbell, and meet with them a couple times a year.

All that groundwork can be vitally important if you find that this new elected official whose relationship that you have been grooming for years finds themselves as committee chair who will determine if a bill should get a hearing or not. You never know where these folks will end up. I’ve had some relationships that gone nowhere. I’ve had others that have born political fruit.