Adding a hardtop

All,

I'm considering adding a hardtop to my 40ft Mainship to eliminate the isenglass and fabric that is a PITA. And to give better shade because it can be sized better and to have a spot to add solar.

Looking for fabricators who can make the hard top, and/or install.

And ideas for designs, materials, etc.

I envision a really light weight product that is strong and easy to work with, perhaps aluminum or some new high tech composite material, kevlar, carbon or something?

And putting real glass in the front. Or perhaps that new replacement of isinglass or stataglass, don't remember what it is.

Don't mind a DIY project, but would hard someone to do most of the work.

I have seen lightweight hardtops that replace a canvas bimini and use the existing bimini framing. But you seem to want an integrated hardtop with composite sides or windows like the pic of a Krogen Manatee below.

So, what you want is a composite fly bridge enclosure with glass or plexiglass or ?? sides, right?

It won't be cheap and it won't be light. It will weigh a thousand pounds or so and may affect your boat's stability.

David

We put a hardtop on our current and also a previous boat from hardtotop.com. It is lightweight and easy to install. You use your bimini frame for the structure. It comes in panels so they can ship it fairly easy. I had the front and first panel on each side fabricated out of EZ2CY. They are optically clear like glass. The rest of the enclosure I made myself. For the EZ2CY panels I made a pattern and sent it to a fabricator in New Jersey. He made the panels and shipped them to me. They fit perfectly and are awesome.

I am looking at building a hardtop over my aft deck to get more shading as well as support for solar panels. At the moment I look at building this as a sandwich of thin plywood sheet and honeycomb reinforced by fiberglass and epoxy, it should be quite light and not too difficult to achieve. Now I need to think about the vertical structure to hold it though.

L

Seevee,
The PITA isenglass may be a blessing compared to the very high CG of even more weight topside. I’d vote for leaving it as is.

All,

I'd bet that there are some light weight solutions. I'm not putting 1000 lbs up there, and heck the isinglass has weight, granted not bad, however horribly unfunctional.

Eric,

Plywood reinforced with fiberglas is heavy. I'm betting there's better materials out there.

With this thread I'm hoping to find folks that have done this, light wight and successful. Found 2 so far.

Aftermarket hardtops are fairly common. I would opt for aluminum framework over SS for weight and cost. I wouldn't bother with a solid windshield since you have a lower helm. You can get much thicker gauge of isinglass which doesn't roll up. It is smoother and easier to see out of. I'm not sure how much more shade a hard-top would actually provide.

A simple search for "Custom hardtops in St Petersburg" turned up a ton of hits.

My last hardtop for a 37" sport fish was aluminum tube with small square on top and a thin skin of fiberglass on top...supports for radar and a place to crawl out to it.


Whole thing may have weighed a couple hundred pounds.


If I did it to my current boat, I would have the same with EZ2CY or an equivalent front and sides.


The nice light weight ones aren't that heavy, but still a lot of windage.

Comodave said:

We put a hardtop on our current and also a previous boat from hardtotop.com. It is lightweight and easy to install. You use your bimini frame for the structure. It comes in panels so they can ship it fairly easy. I had the front and first panel on each side fabricated out of EZ2CY. They are optically clear like glass. The rest of the enclosure I made myself. For the EZ2CY panels I made a pattern and sent it to a fabricator in New Jersey. He made the panels and shipped them to me. They fit perfectly and are awesome.

Click to expand...

I’ve considered replacing the canvas Bimini with something from hardtotop.com. It looks like a great system.

dhays said:

I’ve considered replacing the canvas Bimini with something from hardtotop.com. It looks like a great system.

Click to expand...

It is pretty neat. I have done 2 of them now. You can easily install it in a day. I made mine on the current boat larger than the bimini top was. I ran it back and attached it to the radar arch which gives me a lot more headroom going up and down the steps to the bridge. They are located about 2 hours away from where I live so I just drove down and picked them up and put them on the roof of the car. The current top is pretty large and weights about 100 pounds. I made it so the front of the enclosure has a negative angle and the hardtop extends out over the front panel about 6”. In a light rain I can even leave the front panels open unless it is blowing. With the EZ2CY panels and 210 wax the rain drops run off pretty well so visibility is good compared to regular eisenglass.

Shrew said:

Aftermarket hardtops are fairly common. I would opt for aluminum framework over SS for weight and cost. I wouldn't bother with a solid windshield since you have a lower helm. You can get much thicker gauge of isinglass which doesn't roll up. It is smoother and easier to see out of. I'm not sure how much more shade a hard-top would actually provide.

A simple search for "Custom hardtops in St Petersburg" turned up a ton of hits.

Click to expand...

Yes, there's a lot in St. Pete, but most want to do fishing boats. I need to get more info about the thicker isinglass and their competitor that I saw at the boat show, but forgot their name. Regardless of the lower helm, I really want rain and sun protection so I can just stay up.

The original canvas design for the mainship was very poor for the front of the cockpit area and a lot of folks have added an eyebrow shade extension of sorts in the front that works well. I'd design the hard top to have this extension.

So many times there's a light or short duration rain that could easily be handled if I could close things up quickly and still see.

Thx for the comments.

You might want to look at these folks. They'll make what you want to fit your boat and ship it to you. I haven't actually seen their product, but pics look cool.



Shelley GoldenVice President of Sales & Marketing
Atlantic Towers & St. Croix Marine Products
Box D , 235 Hickory Lane
Bayville, NJ 08721
1-800-831-8889
1-732-237-8800
sgolden@atlantictowers.com
www.atlantictowers.com
www.davit.com

Yes, the Atlantic Towers hardtops are very very nice. I put one on a previous boat. However they are also very very expensive since they are a custom fiberglass hardtop. I can’t say anything bad about them since the one they made for me was beautiful and fit precisely.

I struggled to add a photo from my Ipad....it shows two of Atlantic’s hard tops that I purchased and had them install. The first was over the rear deck and that was 10 years ago. The photo also shows my newer canvas that I made a for it a couple of years ago. Still need to update my avatar

Seevee said:

All,

I'd bet that there are some light weight solutions. I'm not putting 1000 lbs up there, and heck the isinglass has weight, granted not bad, however horribly unfunctional.

Eric,

Plywood reinforced with fiberglas is heavy. I'm betting there's better materials out there.

With this thread I'm hoping to find folks that have done this, light wight and successful. Found 2 so far.

Click to expand...

I remember being told that I would need a crane to install the last hardtop while our boat was at the dock. So I brought a bunch of guys to help with the install. This much I certainly do recall that surprised me, the hardtop, 120” X 109” was surprising light. I doubt it weighted much over 100#s if even that.

Included is my well worn out dinghy cover before I made a new one

Those Atlantic Tower hard tops look good. Anyone have one built and shipped to CA? Work out ok?

There are probably 10 guys in a 20 mile radius of me that make them to the same or better standard than Atlantic....who is good and reasonable because they have become good at what they do including advertising, using measurements or old patterns and shipping.


My guess is there are guys close to every boating center that do the same work.


Check around before you have one shipped a long way.

The problem with any hardtop like the Atlantic Towers is shipping. When I ordered it I was told shipping would be about $800 to Michigan. The final shipping was over $1500. By the time I had the actual shipping the top had been made and I had paid for it. Shipping to CA would be really expensive based on my experience.

Agree, makes sense to have someone in the local area do it so they can get on the boat. Have not done any research on this, but will do it eventually. OP, sorry for the thread drift.

Are you planning on adding AC to the flybridge? Otherwise going with fixed or thicker material panels might be even more tedious to open/remove.

Our EB47 came with some that are nearly rigid. You had to basically hinge arc-in-and-up and use straps to lash them to the underside of the bimini. I'm tall and the edges of them were just close enough to be a hazard to me forehead. They're now stowed onshore in a storage locker, waiting for much colder weather (aka Hell freezing over).

A hardtop would buy me a place to mount ceiling lights but that's about all. If mine had one I wouldn't get rid of it, but I'm it's not on my 'must haves' list.

I'd be very skeptical of approaching this as a DIY project. Both from the weight of the top itself and from properly arranging framing (and added support under the existing fiberglass for the it). Outfitting it once someone else designed/fabricated it, sure, but not making it from scratch. I'm thinking top makers have already done all the homework on figuring out the best cost and material weight ratios for stuff like this.

We have a hardtop over the flybridge of our Sabreline. Necessary in the Florida sun as the sun result cooks even Sunbrella. We never use the enclosure but need the shade for wind- in- your- hair (what's left of it) running.

Following with interest. On the lighter weight solutions (like hardtotop, for example) has anyone seen these mounted in such a way where one could lower them a couple of feet for bridge clearance? I love hard tops, but as an aspiring looper, I worry about clearance on some boats we have seen if we added a hard top.
Seevee, since you asked about ideas/designs I hope this is not too much of a thread drift.

Our hardtop adds about 1” over the radar arch which does not lower. Our overall air draft is well below what we need to do the loop.

Good posts, thanks for all the info.....

As for a DIY project, anyone versed in fabrication and boat works could probably do it but could argue to buy panels and parts already fabricated. If I do a DIY, I'd hire one of the guys I know that could do this to do the brunt of the work.

As for AC up there, the hard top would make little difference. The best one could do is just have cold air blow on them unless you have a super heavy insulated top with a huge AC unit... which ain't gonna happen. However, that cool air is really great.

As for lighting, little need for that. When I operate at night, I just don't need any more lights up there. Just sitting out enjoying the sunset, I might put a few battery operated LEDs up there, but have lots of other lights.

Just need basic cover, but with a glass like window, which I haven't decided.

Seevee said:

All,

I'm considering adding a hardtop to my 40ft Mainship to eliminate the isenglass and fabric that is a PITA. And to give better shade because it can be sized better and to have a spot to add solar.

Looking for fabricators who can make the hard top, and/or install.

And ideas for designs, materials, etc.

I envision a really light weight product that is strong and easy to work with, perhaps aluminum or some new high tech composite material, kevlar, carbon or something?

And putting real glass in the front. Or perhaps that new replacement of isinglass or stataglass, don't remember what it is.

Don't mind a DIY project, but would hard someone to do most of the work.

Click to expand...

Simple answer. No. Hardtops are heavy. They change the CG (center of gravity) affecting handling and safety. Even with lightweight materials, on a small boat the effect can be substantial.

The simplest solution I've seen that is nice is a nice permanent stainless framework with stretched canvas top and removable isinglass or similar. You can then have nice looks - sometimes nicer than a hardtop - especially on a trawler, and low weight.

We replaced our canvas on the fly bridge of our trawler with a Hardtotop, custom made top. Home | Hard To Top We loved the top for sun protection and no leaks in the highest winds and rains, 80kts + during Irma. No problems, We installed our self and added three 245 watt panels on top of the hardtotop.

Autoteacher said:

We replaced our canvas on the fly bridge of our trawler with a Hardtotop, custom made top. Home | Hard To Top We loved the top for sun protection and no leaks in the highest winds and rains, 80kts + during Irma. No problems, We installed our self and added three 245 watt panels on top of the hardtotop.

Click to expand...

Very nice - Looks really well done and light weight !!! Photos | Hard To Top

We have a hardtop now, and our previous boat had one, too... and I don't think I'd ever want a big boat again without one. But both of these boats were expected to/designed with hardtops from the git-go.

Some benefits (you'll know this):
- Provides decent shade
- Provides real estate for mounting sensors, antennas, radars, etc. and presumably solar panels, given enough space.
- And on the underside, it offers a place for overhead electonics components (radios, fishfinders, radar displays, whatever) and also for some overhead lights, spreader lights, etc.
- Provides a hanger system for enclosure panels, and if some of those panel openings are not of the "roll-up" variety it also provides an easy way to "pin up" open panels, especially rigid panels like Makrolon/EZ2CY/etc.
- On our previous boat, an express sportfish, we could hoist our (upside down) inflatable up there
- In winter locations, it handles snow load relatively well

Some of that could have been solved using the exoskeleton approach; radars and so forth can instead be mounted on aluminum or stainless pipe that forms a support structure for some hardtops (Atlantic Towers products, for example)

There's a boat in the marina near us with that very lightweight "hardtop" material mounted to a bimini or exoskeleton. I forget the brand name. Looks like it'll do SOME of that stuff, but it also looks like it's not all that great for directly mounting heavy components (like a radar array). Looks "aftermarket" -- more so than the Atlantic Towers examples, which I'd guess are significantly more expensive.

FWIW, we have our full enclosure in two major parts, fore and aft. (Duh!) The forward part is 5 panels; the center 3 are Makrolon polycarbonate "glass like windows" (center segment pins up to the hard top when open), and the two sides are Regalite something or other sheet vinyl with zip open "smilies". Would have gone with pin-up versions there, too, but other bits and pieces (support frame, electronics box, etc.) prevented.

The after part is 5 panels of Regalite, all 5 with roll-up "smilies." All 5 usually removed and stored during our late spring/summer/early fall months.

All the Sunbrella pieces are sewn with Tenera thread, with heavy/straight YKK connecting the panels, and coil zippers for all the "smilies," and with connecting zippers overlayed with extra Sunbrella closed over the zippers with hook-and-eye seals. I know the forward segment has withstood an 80 MPH straight line "Derecho" wind, just after it was installed (and before the after part was fitted). In colder weather the enclosure makes a decent greenhouse (it was 22°F when we left Myrtle Beach last January en route Charleston, bearable at least on the bridge), and at least it's almost completely dry on the bridge.

Stratoglass is another sheet vinyl product; our original was made with that. I haven't noticed much difference between that and the Regalite.

-Chris

Seevee said:

All,
And putting real glass in the front. Or perhaps that new replacement of isinglass or stataglass, don't remember what it is.

Click to expand...

Seevee said:

Just need basic cover, but with a glass like window, which I haven't decided.

Click to expand...

Real glass is likely too heavy and likely needs a seriously rigid framework, mullions, etc...

But EZ2CY, Makrolon, etc. polycarbonates can come close. Greatest thing since sliced bread for forward visibility.

BUT...

Our forward panels are Makrolon and over time it can haze, and it's apparently easy enough to scratch, likely through ham-handed cleaning.

That said... it comes in various grades... I didn't know that when it was installed... and I have no clue what grade ours is. OTOH, our forward panels have been in place 24/7 since June 2009, and only this last year two of the Makrolon panels have started to haze, I'm guessing from UV damage over that time span.

I'm planning to have our specialist replace the polycarbonate in those two panels sometime over this winter or at least by spring, whenever he has time. I'll be asking then about various grades, and so forth... but I think I've easily gotten my money's worth from the first go-round.

Our center panel, often open and pinned up out of direct sunlight when we're aboard, isn't showing that hazing. OTOH, it has been scratched, possibly by me, or maybe more possibly by our semi-periodic cleaning crew (when I splurge)... and sunlight at certain angles on that scratching can be quite dazzling. Haven't tried yet to see if there are products to buff that out... And I could maybe just as easily have our guy just replace the polycarbonate in that one panel at the same time, too.

-Chris

Seevee said:

All,

I'd bet that there are some light weight solutions. I'm not putting 1000 lbs up there, and heck the isinglass has weight, granted not bad, however horribly unfunctional.

Eric,

Plywood reinforced with fiberglas is heavy. I'm betting there's better materials out there.

With this thread I'm hoping to find folks that have done this, light wight and successful. Found 2 so far.

Click to expand...

I put a 8'x14.5' aluminum hardtop on my 40' trawler. Total weight of roof and supporting structure is about 400lbs (1/8" Al sheets and 2" squarex1/4" thick supports). On top of that I added 600 watts of my semi-flexible solar panels (about 5lbs each).
I haven't worked out the solution for the glass walls. Had the roof manufactured in Gananoque, ON by Tennant's Welding