Jabsco rebuild-getting access

Toilet stopped working - probably the impeller broke and stuck because when I push the button to flush I hear a click and my panel shows 10+ amps being drawn but nothing else happens.

It is an electric raw water toilet and as far as I can tell a Jabsco 370* series(?).

I got a 37010 series rebuild kit and went down to the boat to install and have run into a problem...

The Jabsco youtube videos make it look so easy to just remove the macerator/pump and put in the replacement parts but getting to it in real life is much harder. I figured I need to take off the toilet bowl to get the bowl off of the base so I can access the black macerator pump. Three of the nuts seem to be coming off OK but the fourth (in green in my picture) spins the entire bolt when I turn the nut. I soaked it in wd-40 for an hour but it didn't help.

Do you think PB Blaster or Liquid Wrench would make a difference?

Should I just remove it by the base by removing the plastic covers and unbolting the two nuts that fasten it to the floor? (in red in my picture and behind cover #35 in the diagram)

In either case, am I at risk of having these bolts fall down into the bilge as soon as they are loosened?

Thanks!



Parts diagram from the rebuild kit:

Your photo is all too familiar to me, a trawler owner for 26 years. See those plastic "covers" in the base, four if I remember right. Pop them off and you should have access to the bolts that hold the entire head and motor structure to the base. Pull the toilet off and slide it out of the way and you should be able to pull the motor off to do the rebuild. In my opinion, it makes more sense to replace the motor. Re-builds are fine but no guarantee that the kits have all the parts that wear. New pumps are a few hundred dollars and avoid the hassle of rebuilding (dropped parts into the most inaccessible areas of the bilge)

You're correct that your toilet is a 37010...And from your description of the rusted bolts, a fairly old one. If the motor doesn't run when you push the flush button, a rebuild kit won't fix it. It's getting power, but that's all. I suspect a seized motor. You can download the owners manual from here: Jabsco 37010 owners manual If there's nothing in it that helps you diagnose the problem, give Jabsco tech support a call. Their toilet tech is Paul Campagna...his direct line is 978-282-5246

--Peggie
"If you can't explain it to a six year old, you don't completely understand it yourself." --Albert Einstein

HeadMistress said:

You're correct that your toilet is a 37010...And from your description of the rusted bolts, a fairly old one. If the motor doesn't run when you push the flush button, a rebuild kit won't fix it. It's getting power, but that's all. I suspect a seized motor. You can download the owners manual from here: Jabsco 37010 owners manual If there's nothing in it that helps you diagnose the problem, give Jabsco tech support a call. Their toilet tech is Paul Campagna...his direct line is 978-282-5246

--Peggie
"If you can't explain it to a six year old, you don't completely understand it yourself." --Albert Einstein

Click to expand...

Or can be motor rotor contacts that are tired.

L

Thanks Hawkeye and Peggie.

Since the head is 16 years old I don't mind getting a new motor or even replacing it entirely. I'll try Hawkeye's suggestion and hopefully can remove the nuts that are behind those little plastic covers (#35 in diagram).



Do I need to take extra care to keep the bolts from falling into the bilge? It would be close to impossible to access that area.



Assuming marine toilet technology got better over the last 16 years, if I wanted to go with a complete new toilet, is there a no-brainer drop in replacement that might be quieter?

put 2 of the nuts from the other studs on top of the spinning stud then lock the top 2 nuts together. Hold the top nut in place with a wrench while loosening the bottom nut.

costs about double a new Jabsco 370xxx, the Raritain Marine Elegance is quieter.

You're gonna have to remove all the nuts to get the toilet out whether you just replace the motor and pump assembly with a new 37010 or another much higher quality.

Assuming marine toilet technology got better over the last 16 years, if I wanted to go with a complete new toilet, is there a no-brainer drop in replacement that might be quieter?

Marine toilet technology has improved quite a bit in the last 16 years, especially electric macerating toilets. Sea water toilets are noisier than toilets designed to use onboard pressurized fresh water, but they're all much quieter, less power and water hungry, and have much more efficient and robust pumps.

There are only two US toilet mfrs left who still build everything in the US--Groco, who has only two manual toilets, and Raritan Engineering who makes a complete line of manual and electric toilets along with a large selection of plumbing and sanitation equipment and accessories...all of which is always top rated. Everything Jabso sells in the US is now made in Mexico with materials and components sourced from China and other Asian countries.

The Raritan SeaEra Raritan SeaEra Promo Sheet was purposely designed to be a "plug & play" replacement for the Jabsco 37010...even the mounting bolt patterns are a match. Available in both sea water and fresh water version as either a complete toilet or a "conversion" (everything south of the bowl) Raritan SeaEra Conversion Promo Sheet

Or, you could upgrade to the very top of the line macerating electric toilet: the Raritan Marine Elegance--an all-china "throne" that's the quietest toilet on the planet! Raritan Marine_Elegance Promo.pdf

I'll be glad to answer any questions after you've had a chance look over the info.

--Peggie
"If you can't explain it to a six year old, you don't completely understand it yourself." --Albert Einstein

HeadMistress said:

You're gonna have to remove all the nuts to get the toilet out whether you just replace the motor and pump assembly with a new 37010 or another much higher quality.

Assuming marine toilet technology got better over the last 16 years, if I wanted to go with a complete new toilet, is there a no-brainer drop in replacement that might be quieter?

Marine toilet technology has improved quite a bit in the last 16 years, especially electric macerating toilets. Sea water toilets are noisier than toilets designed to use onboard pressurized fresh water, but they're all much quieter, less power and water hungry, and have much more efficient and robust pumps.

There are only two US toilet mfrs left who still build everything in the US--Groco, who has only two manual toilets, and Raritan Engineering who makes a complete line of manual and electric toilets along with a large selection of plumbing and sanitation equipment and accessories...all of which is always top rated. Everything Jabso sells in the US is now made in Mexico with materials and components sourced from China and other Asian countries.

The Raritan SeaEra Raritan SeaEra Promo Sheet was purposely designed to be a "plug & play" replacement for the Jabsco 37010...even the mounting bolt patterns are a match. Available in both sea water and fresh water version as either a complete toilet or a "conversion" (everything south of the bowl) Raritan SeaEra Conversion Promo Sheet

Or, you could upgrade to the very top of the line macerating electric toilet: the Raritan Marine Elegance--an all-china "throne" that's the quietest toilet on the planet! Raritan Marine_Elegance Promo.pdf

I'll be glad to answer any questions after you've had a chance look over the info.

--Peggie
"If you can't explain it to a six year old, you don't completely understand it yourself." --Albert Einstein

Click to expand...

Last year I installed two Marine Elegance electric heads. As boat jobs go, the installations were relatively easy. Very happy with the product. Plus, all of the operating parts are behind the bowl, hidden, and very accessible should anything go wrong.

I have the same toilets after sitting for about 3 months unused Mine did the exact same thing. Upon disassembly. I discovered that the impeller swelled width wise 60 thousands of an inch. I can't explain it but that's what happened a new impeller and things as good as new

bobbyp said:

I figured I need to take off the toilet bowl to get the bowl off of the base so I can access the black macerator pump.

Click to expand...

FWIW, I was able to remove/replace our macerator/pump without dismantling the toilet. Not saying you should be able to do that, just can't tell from your pic...

-Chris

I've also had mine off a few times without removing the bowl.
Also the back of the motor has a screw slot in the shaft and if you can get a stubby or right angle screwdriver in there you can try to rotate the motor.

jleonard said:

Also the back of the motor has a screw slot in the shaft and if you can get a stubby or right angle screwdriver in there you can try to rotate the motor.

Click to expand...

^^^ This has worked several times for me after head wasn't used for a month. Eventually, I did change out the macerator.

That nut has a bolt head on the other side, likely can get to t by removing the head and flipping it over. I have similar very noisy Raritan head. I replaced the impeller last year, it is not all that easy. The bronze macerator is held to shaft by a set screw and mine corroded away. I may have had to drill it out.
Behind that is the rubber impeller. I also had a problem where the machine screws holding motor to to the plastic base, those metal threaded insert spun in the plastic. And of course the base cracked there too from corrosion buildup. That part is outrageously priced too. I manged to glue it, it is PVC plastic. And the rubber o-ring would not seal, thing leaked all the time, so used Permatex gasket maker.

Grease al metal bolts or use waterproof teflon pipe dope like Rectorseal T plus 2 teflon, otherwise they corrode together. The manufacturers know it and hope it does so you have to buy new hard parts or a whole new head. I honestly do not like the head I have, it has functional issues related to its small opening for waste that a modern home toilet does not have. The thing is just poorly made, IMO! It is what it is.

I honestly do not like the head I have, it has functional issues related to its small opening for waste that a modern home toilet does not have. The thing is just poorly made, IMO! It is what it is.

Defender has the Raritan SeaEra "conversion" for $389. You can upgrade to an Elegance for <$700 if you know where to shop. You'll like the SeaEra...you'll LOVE the Elegance.

Life is too short to endure using a piece of equipment several times every day that you hate.


--Peggie
"If you can't explain it to a six year old, you don't completely understand it yourself." --Albert Einstein

Agree!!

HeadMistress said:

Life is too short to endure using a piece of equipment several times every day that you hate.


--Peggie
"If you can't explain it to a six year old, you don't completely understand it yourself." --Albert Einstein

Click to expand...

What is the flush volume of say my Raritan head?

What I know now, and I paid like close to $400 or so thereabout for what I have, I honestly regret spending the money on it. It has not aged well. And friends do mention it being loud.

The seat paint is ok, but the hinge looks like its disintegrating, the plastic it is made from is developing many black looking surface cracking all over. Even old house toilets, you never see that. Just more evidence of a crappy head design that you pay way to much money for. I will take a picture! and post in a few days. I do not believe my situation is unique to me.

sdowney717 said:

I will take a picture! and post in a few days. I do not believe my situation is unique to me.

Click to expand...

When you do, it'd maybe help to include exact brand/model info, and year installed...

-Chris

What is the flush volume of say my Raritan head?

That depends on which Raritan toilet you have. If it's a Crown Head (dinosaur Raritan introduced in the late '60s and is still in production)...depending on whether it's a "DeepDraft (DD") "Standard (ST)" or "Centrifugal Discharge (CD)" version, it draws 30-50amps/flush,needs 1-3 gals water/flush and makes enough noise to wake the dead...which sounds like what you have (most likely the CD version) and can be up to 20+ years old. Everything has a lifespan!! Raritan Crown Head Owners Manual

But your only complaint seems to be about the seat, not the toilet itself. Household toilet seats live in climate controlled conditions and don't have endure the abuse that marine toilets do. And if your bowl is the "household" size, you can replace the seat and lid at Home Depot.

The sea water version of the Raritan SeaEra draws 15 amps and is a LOT quieter, but not as quiet as the fresh water version, which draws only about 10 amps. Average flush from both versions is about 2 litres. Raritan SeaEra Promo Sheet

The Raritan Marine Elegance Raritan Marine_Elegance Promo.pdf is the top rated electric macerating toilet today. Designed to use pressurized flush water, it's the quietest toilet on the planet. Average flush is about 2 liters...however the optional "Smart Flush" panel offers 4 flush choices that can greatly reduce average flush water needed: bring in water and hold it ahead of use, dry flush, "light" flush and "full" flush.

--Peggie
"If you can't explain it to a six year old, you don't completely understand it yourself." --Albert Einstein

HeadMistress said:

You're gonna have to remove all the nuts to get the toilet out whether you just replace the motor and pump assembly with a new 37010 or another much higher quality.

Assuming marine toilet technology got better over the last 16 years, if I wanted to go with a complete new toilet, is there a no-brainer drop in replacement that might be quieter?

Marine toilet technology has improved quite a bit in the last 16 years, especially electric macerating toilets. Sea water toilets are noisier than toilets designed to use onboard pressurized fresh water, but they're all much quieter, less power and water hungry, and have much more efficient and robust pumps.

There are only two US toilet mfrs left who still build everything in the US--Groco, who has only two manual toilets, and Raritan Engineering who makes a complete line of manual and electric toilets along with a large selection of plumbing and sanitation equipment and accessories...all of which is always top rated. Everything Jabso sells in the US is now made in Mexico with materials and components sourced from China and other Asian countries.

The Raritan SeaEra Raritan SeaEra Promo Sheet was purposely designed to be a "plug & play" replacement for the Jabsco 37010...even the mounting bolt patterns are a match. Available in both sea water and fresh water version as either a complete toilet or a "conversion" (everything south of the bowl) Raritan SeaEra Conversion Promo Sheet

Or, you could upgrade to the very top of the line macerating electric toilet: the Raritan Marine Elegance--an all-china "throne" that's the quietest toilet on the planet! Raritan Marine_Elegance Promo.pdf

I'll be glad to answer any questions after you've had a chance look over the info.

--Peggie

Click to expand...

Long overdue update.

Installed the Jabsco rebuild kit and worked fine but toilet konked out last week leaking water from pump.
Unfortunately at the same time, the other head had a clog so we were toilet-less. Luckily at a marina.


Bought a new SeaEra toilet but unfortunately it didn't fit unless I did more cutting than I am comfortable doing while on the move.
So...we took the Jabsco from the master head and put it in the day head and were able to fit the Sea Era into the master head with only having to cut out a new hole for the discharge hose as those parts didn't line up well.


So now have a functioning Jabsco 37010 in the day head and a Sea Era with a clog in the master head. Sea Era is a nice toilet and a huge improvement in sound level. Will definitely switch the day head to a Sea Era as soon as I get back to home port and have access to more tools.



If I turn off the seacock and fill the new Sea Era in the master head with water from the sink and switch the Y valve to overboard discharge it will drain in a flash. Filling again with sink water and switching the Y valve to empty to the holding tank and pushing the button does nothing other than spinning the water around, though it eventually drains after a few hours. Since there was no way to get off the hose between the Y valve and the holding tank (I tried a combination of heat and brute force) I bought a big bottle of Rarita CH and it just sits there and drains slowly just like the water. I put a couple of doses in there over the past 18 hours and there doesn't seem to be any difference.


It is just my wife and I who used the master toilet before it clogged so I'm confident nothing went into the toilet that shouldn't have.



Any ideas?

I don't think you have a clogged toilet...I'd bet the tank VENT is blocked, which has pressurized the tank, creating back pressure that prevents bowl contents from going anywhere. A tiny amount of air is able to slowly escape, slowly reducing the pressure enough to let the bowl slowly drain.

The two most common locations for a vent blockage are the vent thru-hull and the other end of the vent line--that end of the hose and the vent fitting on the tank. Start by cleaning out the thru-hull...use a screwdriver blade, ice pick--whatever works. If that doesn't result in a spew out the vent, you'll need to relieve the pressure before removing the vent line from the tank to clean them out...so open the deck pumpout fitting VERY CAREFULLY with a hose at the ready. Be sure you're UPwind of it! Scrape out that end of the vent line and the vent fitting on the tank...reconnect the vent line.

If there's a filter in the vent line, remove it...once a filter gets wet--which can happen when a tank is overfilled or even due to heeling--the charcoal swells and blocks the vent.

--Peggie

I was thinking tank vent but the other head goes to the same holding tank and flushes OK.

We removed the holding tank filter a couple of years ago.

How long are the lines from each toilet to the tank? How straight are their paths?


--Peggie

Both heads are similar distances to the tank.
Around 4-5 feet to the Y valve and another 6-7 feet to the holding tank.
Hoses have fairly gentle bends.

Just pumped out today to see if it would help but it did not.
Right now heading across Biscayne bay to Key Largo.

Haven't added any of the $100 a gallon CH since yesterday but already used around a half gallon mixed anywhere from 5:1 to 2:1 as recommended by the Fort Lauderdale Raritan guy.

I wonder if the y-valve in the line from the SeaEra could be the culprit...that it's not opening to the tank. Although I don't understand what filling the bowl with water from from the sink vs. from the thru-hull has to do with it. You said there's no way to remove the hoses from the y-yalve. Warming 'em a bit should solve that problem. But you really need to see what's happening inside it even if you have to cut the hoses to the remove it. What brand is it?


If you want to brainstorm this in more detail than is practical by swapping forum posts, send me a PM that includes your email address. That'll let us move the conversation to the phone while letting you send me photos if need be.


--Peggie