Rocna Comparison?

Does anyone have any thoughts on how the holding power of a new style Rocna Vulcan anchor compares to an old style Rocna with a roll bar of the same size?

They say it’s about the same but I never got a chance to try one.
It would be my choice if the roll bar Rocna doesn’t store well on your boat.

I bought one to replace my Delta but Possum sank before I got a chance to try it.

We have a Vulcan. I used to own a traditional Rocna on a different boat. We've sat in a number of 30+kt blows where we've swung around and opposed the direction the anchor was set with both anchors. We don't see any difference between the performance of the two.

Since the new Rocna is a straightforward copy of the Spade, it should perform about the same. Holding power about the same, resetting ability better.

HopCar said:

They say it’s about the same but I never got a chance to try one.
It would be my choice if the roll bar Rocna doesn’t store well on your boat.

I bought one to replace my Delta but Possum sank before I got a chance to try it.

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Poor Possum.

Are you thinking about getting another boat? I’m out of the loop so sorry if this has been discussed.

The Rocha you sold me (and delivered!) with the roll bar has been awesome btw.

This is an interesting piece:

https://www.morganscloud.com/2016/0...lures-with-rocna-and-some-thoughts-on-vulcan/

The Morgan's Cloud guy recommends the Spade, arguing, along with Practical Sailor, that the Rocna can fail to reset after a 180 degree wind change. He also argues that the Vulcan is inferior in construction to a Spade.

cardude01 said:

Poor Possum.

Are you thinking about getting another boat? I’m out of the loop so sorry if this has been discussed.

The Rocha you sold me (and delivered!) with the roll bar has been awesome btw.

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She sank in the last hurricane. I suppose I should start a thread on the loss. She was well insured and someone bought her from the insurance company and is fixing her up. I’m glad she’ll have a second life.

A tradition Rocna won't fit in our new boat. Thinking of a Vulcan. Totally believe in the traditional Rocna. Glad you're having good results with it. I was sure you would.

ScottH said:

A tradition Rocna won't fit in our new boat. Thinking of a Vulcan. Totally believe in the traditional Rocna. Glad you're having good results with it. I was sure you would.

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If you are looking for another anchor without a roll bar, you may want to consider the Sarca Excel. They now have a NA distributor.

HopCar said:

She sank in the last hurricane. I suppose I should start a thread on the loss. She was well insured and someone bought her from the insurance company and is fixing her up. I’m glad she’ll have a second life.

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Sorry to hear about this Hoppy. I was unaware. Good that she was well-insured.

I had bought a 20Kg ROCNA for my GB36 but the roll bar kept hitting the FRP pulpit due to the "through pulpit" style bow roller. Sold the ROCNA and replaced it with a 20Kg Vulcan which proved to be identical in holding power for us.

Used a 40 kg Rocna Vulcan for two 6 month trips from Anacortes to Glacier Bay & back--no problems.
I would buy it again


Look at the shank, it has a taper--make sure it will be compatible with any constriction you might have on your roller-pulpit.

Did I hear the guy in the video say, last on his list of well-setting anchors, and almost imperceptibly, "Manson?"

Mine has set, and reset, pretty well so far. There was one time in a wind reversal where it dragged a bit before resetting. Frankly I never trust a reset, so none of this is a surprise to me.

Note that the test is done at a scope of 3.5:1 and the speed and resulting force of the reversal isn't a great 'real world' example. I've never seen a condition where a boat reverses 180 degrees at 3.5 knots directly over the anchor. A 180 reversal directly over the anchor typically only occurs at slack wind and tide, therefore is not as fast as was tested. If there is high wind clocking around, then the reversal is around the circumference of the scope, not the diameter.

SteveD said:

This is an interesting piece:

https://www.morganscloud.com/2016/0...lures-with-rocna-and-some-thoughts-on-vulcan/

The Morgan's Cloud guy recommends the Spade, arguing, along with Practical Sailor, that the Rocna can fail to reset after a 180 degree wind change. He also argues that the Vulcan is inferior in construction to a Spade.

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I’m no expert on anchors like some on this forum ( ref to the Pacific Northwest) but I bought a Spade anchor about seven months after reading many tests (yes, I didn’t follow Ted’s recommendation based on the hoop on the Rockna) and used it for a month in the Bahamas. In two locations I found it didn’t dig in (not sure what the bottom was) but in all the others it dug in and held for a month of anchorings. My last anchor was a Boss which also did great but the physical size was too big for the new boat.

I will say the new generation of anchor are far superior to the anchors I grew up with for fifty years.

Anchors are tested for holding power in an anchor test that produces 5000lbs of tension on the rode. Just say’in “I anchored all summer and all was well” dosn’t measure holding power. Setting yes. But you need some really big heavy gear to test holding power. And the ability to equalize as many variables as possible. Oh and the anchor test should be done by a relatively neutral party. Very few anchor tests qualify.

May of the anchors in this thread have not been seriously tested. Maybe I’ve been snooz’in but I don’t recall a top notch anchor test for some time. Anchor manufacturers do tests but it’s mostly beach dragging. Even out of the water. I recall a Mantus rep in a company vid w a small Rocna that was attached to the Rocna as he was walking backwards on a beach pulling the Rocna along carefully holding the line up high enough so the fluke tip was just skidding along perhaps the tip not even touching the sand. Of course it just skidded along like a little kid pulling a sled. But it looked silly and made the Rocna look stupid. Notice how most all (and maybe all) the manufacturers demonstrations make their product look like it’s a miracle compared to the others. And of course there are no miracles.

Anyway it appears to me that quite a few newer anchors have not been seriously tested. Correct me if I’m wrong but I include the Mantus, Vulcan, Excel, and Boss anchors in this basically not tested category. Mostly (probably) because there hasn’t been any comprehensive anchor tests for a few years. And until there is how good these anchors are re holding power will not be known. But enough of them have been sold and used that most if not all of them can be reguarded as excellent anchors. Most newer anchors are good enough that one could just choose which one looked the best and buy. But which one is top dog is just not known.

Nomad

How many anchors test well because of the testing parameters but don’t do as well in real life? I have no idea myself but I know I trust the opinions of those I know (many on this forum) if the tests agree with those opinions it’s a win.

Here in our Anchorage A 30-foot sailboat has a vulcan and it seems to hold very well. there's also a 40-foot cat here that is sitting on a spade, he has dragged all around the lake and hit several boats. I do not know if his anchor is aluminum or Steel

Nomad Willy said:

Anyway it appears to me that quite a few newer anchors have not been seriously tested. Correct me if I’m wrong but I include the Mantus, Vulcan, Excel, and Boss anchors in this basically not tested category.

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Fortress included the Manson Boss (and Supreme) and the Mantus in the Chesapeake tests.

The entrants are in post 7:
http://www.trawlerforum.com/forums/s42/chesapeake-anchor-holding-power-test-15941.html

-Chris

Ranger,
Yes but that was an extreme mud test. Too specialized to tell if the anchors were good all-around anchors.

Motion,
The aluminum Spades don’t match the performance of the steel anchor. But most likely he snagged some debris. The real difference in holding power would probably go to the Spade but not to a degree that would promote a person to buy one or the other.

Fish,
You’d trust opinions over numerous experts in the field doing their best to limit the many variables? Mine included. You should read the anchor tests and then judge where the objectivity lies.

Moved from "General" to "Anchors and Anchoring"

Nomad Willy said:

Ranger,
Yes but that was an extreme mud test. Too specialized to tell if the anchors were good all-around anchors.

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Yep, fair enough.

I expect most individual anchor companies don't have much incentive to conduct a market-wide test in all substrates, and the expense has gotta be serious (remembering the Fortress Chesapeake set-up).

I haven't kept up with anchor test in Practical Sailor; dunno if they've covered any/some/many/most of those...

Steve/Panope and Noelex photos and videos aren't really well-instrumented ( think?), but they've provided a nice public service... from which one can maybe interpolate/extrapolate something useful...

-Chris

Nomad Willy said:

Fish,
You’d trust opinions over numerous experts in the field doing their best to limit the many variables? Mine included. You should read the anchor tests and then judge where the objectivity lies.

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I would trust opinions of knowledgeable boaters that reflect a consensus. Anecdotal evidence is part of scientific study, even a large part of the science of medicine. Sometimes it's the best information available.

Now, I haven't seen any anchor tests that provide empirical evidence and take all variables into consideration, so without that, I will listen to opinions, sort through them, couple them with the tests I'm aware of and the form my own opinions based on my experience and those close to me that I respect.

If I'm going to anchor in Alaska, I highly value the opinions of those who do so regularly. If in the Bahamas, I value the opinions of those who are there frequently. I recognize that there are "best solutions for specific conditions" but I'm not going to carry ten anchors to always be prepared for that. So, I'll take a solution I have confidence in and I'll over specify it so that I have some room for error. Then I'll monitor and see what results I get.

There is no study that can ever determine "the absolute best anchor." The best studies may indicate best anchors based on a set of parameters they set up. However, they will also show that in the various tests the same anchors were not always the best. In addition, there are many other factors in anchoring from how you set it, to the chain and/or rode, to the scope. So, while I value tests, I also value educated opinions.

Up here (second largest tidal ranges in North America) I have run my 15K Rocna exclusively for 6 seasons, with a tide reversal every six hours, and never had a "fail to reset" issue. Knock wood!

Agreed a normal tide change swings me out and around, rather than back over my anchor.

Nomad

BandB said it very well. I’m not sure if these expert opinions you acknowledge are really without prejudice. However if you express an opinion about an anchor to me or a number of some other forum members I would rather trust them than some test in a magazine (some may say I’m not very bright and I would agree).

Just my SSO.

Bigsfish said:

(some may say I’m not very bright and I would agree).

Just my SSO.

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Wifey B: But then that's just an opinion, not a test by experts weighing all the variables.

Wifey B

Actually I can prove it by a rejection many years ago from Harvard Law.

BandB wrote;
“However, they will also show that in the various tests the same anchors were not always the best. In addition, there are many other factors in anchoring from how you set it, to the chain and/or rode, to the scope. So, while I value tests, I also value educated opinions.”

Good point and I weigh the dock talk heavily biased to the credibility of the individual offering it. And yes your point about the same anchor doing well in one test and so-so in another is telling. But always there is a good reason for it. But rarely do we ever know what it is .. and usually the testers don’t know either. If you see an anchor performing well in several to many tests .. that’s meaningful. But conversely if an anchor does well in a number of tests and so-so on one that may be or likely could be the top dog. The luck of the draw surely exists in anchor testing. But consistency even flawed at times should not be dismissed as poor.
The point I’m trying to make is that by far the bigger and better equipped testers and tests will be much more objective than anything less. Once and awhile that could be not true though. You could talk to someone on the dock (so to speak) that was actually smarter, better informed and more objective than anchor testers. But the odds would not make it worth much more than maybe receiving something to think about.
And some of the anchor tests are done by magazines that are probably motivated to make their advertisers happy.
I’m not saying anchor tests are even close to perfect ... but they are the best we have.

AKDoug said:

Up here (second largest tidal ranges in North America) I have run my 15K Rocna exclusively for 6 seasons, with a tide reversal every six hours, and never had a "fail to reset" issue. Knock wood!

Agreed a normal tide change swings me out and around, rather than back over my anchor.

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Yes but you probably could do exactly the same thing w one of a dozen well selected other anchors.

The problem with almost all anchor tests is they are largely conducted by anchor manufactures. Lack of independent testing tends to introduce bias to both testing methods and results.

Rocna tested on a beach with a truck pulling horizontally. Theoretically, variables such as scope and angle of pull will have more influence on results.

Fortress tested in the Chesapeake by setting the anchor at a specified scope, then using geo-positioned rendered the test vessel in a fixed location and began pulling on the anchors by retrieving them to reduce scope.

Steve From Panope advanced directly across the anchor at high rates of speed with very short scope.

None of these methods are real-world examples of anchor usage or conditions.