Nordhavn 63 - single anchor and windlass

Why does a Nordhavn 63 have only one anchor and windlass? I've always thought Nordhavn put backups for everything on their boats...

https://www.yachtworld.com/boats/2015/Nordhavn-63-3228829/Stuart/FL/United-States#.W0omjNIzo_4

https://www.yachtworld.com/boats/2017/Nordhavn-63-3102084/Hampton/VA/United-States#.W0omf9Izo_4

Perhaps the deck crane can be jury rigged to retrieve the anchor, albeit a lot slower.

I'd be more interested as to how you get in and out of the dinghy to do the hook up and take off of hook.

I have a second dinghy I am thinking of foredeck mounting if I can figure out how to get in and out from great height.

WINDLASS: Maxwell VWC 4000 hydraulic
GROUND TACKLE: Lewmar Delta (140 lb.) anchor (bent shank)| 120M / 400' 1/2" chain | Secondary Delta 55 lb. anchor with chain

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Is that it?
A marginal anchor with a bent shank and a toy as a secondary?
Guessing it spends its time at marinas and not cruising the waters as is her intended purpose.

Very nice luxury yacht.

I guess that I could live with the anchor setup, if I could afford the boat.

Comodave said:

I guess that I could live with the anchor setup, if I could afford the boat.

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If you could afford the boat you could easily afford 100 anchor windlasses on the foredeck
I'm surprised they cheaped out on mission critical gear yet loaded up with stuff that isn't.

stubones99 said:

Why does a Nordhavn 63 have only one anchor and windlass? I've always thought Nordhavn put backups for everything on their boats...

https://www.yachtworld.com/boats/2015/Nordhavn-63-3228829/Stuart/FL/United-States#.W0omjNIzo_4

https://www.yachtworld.com/boats/2017/Nordhavn-63-3102084/Hampton/VA/United-States#.W0omf9Izo_4

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Nothing wrong with the anchoring gear - just the anchor. Why do they continue to fit these things out with CQR anchors, for heavens sake. State of the art boat, with antiquated anchor. Just does not compute.

I'm surprised they cheaped out on mission critical gear yet loaded up with stuff that isn't.

Passage offshore making there are few places to anchor.

Many folks cruise by hopping from marina to marina , their most enjoyable choice of lifestyle.

Their anchor is for a rare O nite or an emergency.

I think on the 63 it's a simple issue of space. If you look at the foredeck, there is no space for another windlass without impinging on the hatch to the chain locker. And believe me, you wouldn't want that hatch to be any smaller.


In general you don't see dual windlasses on Nordhavns until you get to the 76 and up, where there is space to add one. Some people add a second on the 68 as well.


I went through the exercise of deciding on one vs two windlasses on our 68 build, and decided to stay with one. The reason is that when you walk through exactly what you have to do to use the second windlass as a backup, it's really pretty impractical.


To me, the value of a second windlass is as a backup in case the main windlass fails. As mentioned by others, it's pretty mission critical equipment. But imagine that your anchor is down and needs to be recovered, and the main windlass fails. The issues how do you get the chain moved over from the main windlass to the backup? The hanging chain probably weighs 300lbs to as much as 1000lbs, so you aren't lifting anything by hand. So, being the clever sorts that we are, you tie a line to the chain below the bow roller and let out some more chain so the line takes the weight and the chain above it is unloaded. OK, now what?


You now need to get the chain moved over to the other bow roller and the other windlass. The problem is that the chain is threaded down through the chain pipe for the primary, and attached to a strong point in the chain locker. So you need to pull all the chain up through the chain pipe onto the deck. That's probably 200' to 300' of 1/2" chain at 275 lbs per hundred, and a giant messy pile. Now disconnect the end from the strong point, then feed it down through the other windlass's chain pipe and onto it's gypsy, and get it moved over to the other bow roller. And by the way, to effectively do this you need to disassembly the top cover on the chain pipe. And of course hope that you haven't hopelessly twisted the chain in the process - something you won't know until you have reloaded all the chain and try to raise the anchor.


I'm sure it can be done, but it's way more difficult and time consuming than you might imagine. And it's certainly not something that will happen quickly in an emergency.


In contrast, compare this to the alternative, which is to crank up the anchor using the windlass hand crank, or use the davit to haul it up 5-10 feet at a time. I know a few people who have had to do this, and they assure me it's not fun in any way, shape, or form. But it can be done.


So given all this, I have opted for manual retrieval and/or repair of whatever has broken. I have even considered keeping a whole replacement windlass as a spare to ensure repairability. The broken windlass needs to be repaired anyway, so why not do that directly.

I guess on a single windlass boat, you keep another windlass as spares and sit on the hook until you can get it repaired or switched out.

I hadn't thought about the tail having to go down the chain pipe and there is no good or easy way to do that.

I had always liked the Maxwell 3500 since it had one windlass with two wildcats, but any failure results in no windlass.

stubones99 said:

I guess on a single windlass boat, you keep another windlass as spares and sit on the hook until you can get it repaired or switched out.

I hadn't thought about the tail having to go down the chain pipe and there is no good or easy way to do that.

I had always liked the Maxwell 3500 since it had one windlass with two wildcats, but any failure results in no windlass.

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Right, it seems real easy. Just use the second windlass to raise the anchor....Not.


Another implied factor here is the size of the ground tackle. If you have 1/4" or 5/16" chain and a 70lb anchor it's one thing. A 300lb anchor and 1/2" chain is another thing all together. There is just no way to move it without mechanical assistance. It's like trying to fend a larger boat off a dock, or pull it into a dock with lines. It's just not happening, and someone is likely to get hurt. In fact, I know of someone who tried to fend off a medium sized nordy and was crushed between the boat and dock and killed. Hands inside, and let the machines do the work.

Peter B said:

Nothing wrong with the anchoring gear - just the anchor. Why do they continue to fit these things out with CQR anchors, for heavens sake. State of the art boat, with antiquated anchor. Just does not compute.

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Peter,
Perhaps it’s just how the boat was ordered.

There’s a guy on our float that has a beautiful wood sailboat and thinks the CQR is the best in the world.
And I’m sure there others here on TF that feel the same. We don’t but have you ever seen a CQR in an anchor test?

FF said:

Passage offshore making there are few places to anchor.

Many folks cruise by hopping from marina to marina , their most enjoyable choice of lifestyle.

Their anchor is for a rare O nite or an emergency.

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Most places in this part of the planet won't have a spot for a transient visitor of that size who drops in.

Many places don't even have a marina full stop.

twistedtree said:

In contrast, compare this to the alternative, which is to crank up the anchor using the windlass hand crank, or use the davit to haul it up 5-10 feet at a time. I know a few people who have had to do this, and they assure me it's not fun in any way, shape, or form. But it can be done.


So given all this, I have opted for manual retrieval and/or repair of whatever has broken. I have even considered keeping a whole replacement windlass as a spare to ensure repairability. The broken windlass needs to be repaired anyway, so why not do that directly.

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Had one of the lugs break off of the windlass motor on our first trip several hundred miles from home bases.
Thankfully on an island with relatively secure, yet uncomfortable anchorage with fast ferry and civilisation nearby to affect repair.

Thankfully it didnt happen at a prior anchorage as that was in the middle of nowhere.

Hand cranking our gear up was not going to happen without a herculean effort. We did try.

Near future mod will be a storage box up front with a mounting point for an ATV style winch (unbolt from davit) to at least run a cable and chain hook to pull in several feet at a time at the press of a button.

We have two windlasses and anchors on our larger boat. They provide very minimal benefit. There are those rare situations you might use both, but we never have. They serve as backups to the other having issues and not being available or even giving you time to work on one. However, in the event you're anchored and a windlass fails, switching the chain to the other windlass isn't really an option I'd see used. What you do generally is the same you'd do with one windlass. One option is to hand crank and there are manual recovery kits which make it possible with design and gearing. The other is a quick repair of switching parts or using replacement parts on hand.

I would not consider the single windlass to be a negative on the 63. Negative would be lack of manual kit, lack of spare parts and even spare windlass.

Nomad Willy said:

Peter,
Perhaps it’s just how the boat was ordered.

There’s a guy on our float that has a beautiful wood sailboat and thinks the CQR is the best in the world.
And I’m sure there others here on TF that feel the same. We don’t but have you ever seen a CQR in an anchor test?

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Better than that Eric. I experienced my own 'test.' My boat came with one, and it was always a bit dodgy to set, requiring significant back-down. However, after it failed to set in an anchorage with a bit of weed on the bottom, but only light wind and about a knot of current, 8 times in a row, within the space of about 2 hours, I abandoned the attempt, went to somewhere it had worked before, muttering "I'm going to get another better anchor as soon as possible". Soon after at a boat show saw a Super Sarca demo video, with Rex Francis, at the Anchor Right stand, ordered one on the spot, and never regretted it over the next 14 years. I'm missing it already, and I only sold the boat a month ago. And I can no longer quietly and confidently say I think I have the best all round anchor in the world, because it went with the boat..!

Agree Peter,
Interestingly though in the worst gale I’ve ever been in there were three boats in the small inlet end. A Krogen w a Bruce, Willy w an XYZ and a 42’ sailboat w a CQR. The Krogen dragged, we re-anchored (because the Krogen was dragging down on us) and the sailboat never moved. They seem to hold once set. I have absolutely no CQR experience. Think I’ll leave it at that.

Re the thread that boat would be just fine w one big Super Sarca anchor but good seamanship says one should have at least one backup anchor. Smaller boats can hand deploy, retrieve and stow secondary anchors. This thread confirms that as an advantage.

Here is the smartest thing cut the chain with a buoy tied to it and break out the fortress anchor until you can make it to a repair yard. Not worth losing a hand over it. I would not want two windlass I would rather up size with one.

Interesting discussion. Two anchors on a boat looks salty, but sounds like the benefits of a second are low.

I’ve recently been on several large vessels that have warping drums fore , aft and/or midship. These can and do assist in fouled anchor or windlass issues.

Interesting to contemplate the myriad of possibilities. TT nailed it, once one gets into a new build and truly immersed in the systems the pros, cons and alternatives get carefully weighed.

Sunchaser, that's a good argument for having a separate powered-warping drum (capstan) on the bow instead of just the one on the windlass. If the windlass crps-out then the anchor can still be raised.

Simi 60 said:

I'd be more interested as to how you get in and out of the dinghy to do the hook up and take off of hook.

I have a second dinghy I am thinking of foredeck mounting if I can figure out how to get in and out from great height.

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Nordhavn offers/provides a portable ladder on the foredeck to get up and down from the dinghy. In practice, someone often just rides the dinghy up or down. Once in the water, you move it to the swim step like any other boat.

guy with a boat said:

Nordhavn offers/provides a portable ladder on the foredeck to get up and down from the dinghy. In practice, someone often just rides the dinghy up or down. Once in the water, you move it to the swim step like any other boat.

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This is correct, but we are trying something new. I haven’t found anyone who likes the boarding ladder. Some tolerate it, and others detest it.

We have molded a series of toe pockets into the hull so you can climb up or down. I think it will either be brilliant, or a total failure and good story.

A stainless plow anchor is std equipment of Nordhavns, and I have to say that all who have them are pleased.

Many buyers instead spec Rocnas or Mantuses. We are going with a 150kg Rocna, but I might go for a 200kg. In a nut shell, I never want to drag again. Ever. Dashew put it well. One should carry around a mooring, not and anchor.

guy with a boat said:

Nordhavn offers/provides a portable ladder on the foredeck to get up and down from the dinghy. In practice, someone often just rides the dinghy up or down.

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Sounds bloody dangerous to me especially in anything but flat condition's
Our second tinny is about 90lbs so will have a simple crane and certainly not robust enough to carry a passenger in it.

Once in the water, you move it to the swim step like any other boat.

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I've always had boats where the dinghy is lowered at the swim step, no need to move them anywhere.

twistedtree said:

A stainless plow anchor is std equipment of Nordhavns, and I have to say that all who have them are pleased.

Many buyers instead spec Rocnas or Mantuses. We are going with a 150kg Rocna, but I might go for a 200kg. In a nut shell, I never want to drag again. Ever. Dashew put it well. One should carry around a mooring, not and anchor.

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MASSIVE anchor that , more than double the weight of our supreme which has held us in 80+ knots on a 150,000lb boat


Can see why you would go that big with a plough but with a decent anchor????

Simi 60 said:

MASSIVE anchor that , more than double the weight of our supreme which has held us in 80+ knots on a 150,000lb boat


Can see why you would go that big with a plough but with a decent anchor????

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The N68 is around 220,000 lbs. No reports of dragging with 150kg Rocnas.

twistedtree said:

The N68 is around 220,000 lbs. .

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Yep, heavier boat bigger anchor I get it.

No reports of dragging with 150kg Rocnas

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Nor would they with 500kg anchors, but my point being with new gen anchors most tend to go smaller than a plough due to them actually working.

Add. Wow, 220000 is near 100,000 kg, so yeah, BIG lump of a thing isn't it
Stupidly large anchor required. (-;

twistedtree said:

The N68 is around 220,000 lbs. No reports of dragging with 150kg Rocnas.

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Twisted, as money does not appear to be a big issue, can I respectfully suggest you check out the Sarc Excel #19 = 160kg, seen here...
SARCA Excel No 19 - Anchor Right Australia Available in 316 stainless. A Nordhavn 68 deserves a better, newer type anchor than an old shiny CQR/Plow type.

No roll bar, and shaped to fit bow set-ups like the Nordys perfectly. High-holding, quick setting and re-setting, (as demo'd by Steve's anchor setting videos), and I doubt you would ever regret going that way, if you did.

SARCA Excel Anchor - Anchor Right Australia

PS. I have no pecuniary interest in this at all, just love their anchors.

Peter,
You’re love for your SS is perhaps similar to my fondness for anchors in general. You are extremly hooked on one but I like anchors in general. I’ve wondered WHY? at times. Maybe my draw is mostly that I’m fascinated by why some work better than others. And does form follow function? It all seems to lead to endless thinking.

Or perhaps it has to do w people. Or it could be nationalistic. Are you very patriotic?
You knew or know Rex Francis. Are you very fond of him? In contrast I dislike the man behind the Rocna and wouldn’t buy one because of it.

Very few anchors are attractive as in a nice piece of art. Your SS has even been labeled as agricultural looking. Very few anchors are not IMO.

And then there’s the Ford and Chevy thing that seems entirely baseless. One is as good as the other but people can get very passionate about the qualities of one. Perhaps the anchor that came w the boat starts out just as a hunk of metal (not even painted) and over time it becomes “ours” ... to love and protect. Love by association?

Anchor threads are a draw ... no doubt. And once and awhile I wonder why. It’s just an odd shaped pice of metal.

Peter B said:

Twisted, as money does not appear to be a big issue, can I respectfully suggest you check out the Sarc Excel #19 = 160kg, seen here...
SARCA Excel No 19 - Anchor Right Australia Available in 316 stainless. A Nordhavn 68 deserves a better, newer type anchor than an old shiny CQR/Plow type.

No roll bar, and shaped to fit bow set-ups like the Nordys perfectly. High-holding, quick setting and re-setting, (as demo'd by Steve's anchor setting videos), and I doubt you would ever regret going that way, if you did.

SARCA Excel Anchor - Anchor Right Australia

PS. I have no pecuniary interest in this at all, just love their anchors.

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What's the objection to a roll bar?


And th Sarca looks nearly identical to the std anchor offered on the nordhanvns.


For what it's worth, I personally am planning on a 150kg Rocna.