Marlow?

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Molly

Molly

Senior Member
Joined
May 2, 2018
Messages
127
Location
USA
Vessel Name
La Bella Vita
Vessel Make
2006 Mainship 34T
Why would someone buy out the Mainship line and not build the boats? The Mainship trawlers and pilots are a very popular boat. Is Marlow going to continue to build any of them? The new Camano, built by Helmsman, is beautiful. They seem to be able to sell them in the $400K range. That re-design of the forward Vee Berth was brilliant.

Most Mainship owners that I have spoken with love the boat. Pretty good quality, layout is good, fuel economy is OK. I would make a few changes, given the opportunity. Nothing major. I would eliminate that door to the head in the stateroom, hard to open the door all the way.

Marlow should start building some boats! The economy is improving and there must be a market. From what I hear from people is the yacht sales business, nice boats priced right don't last too long.
 
They still offer Pilots, four models from 31-37'. No idea why four models in that range. Seems to me it's two basic hulls. I don't know how many they're building, if any. I also don't know if they have any dealers. It's seemed that their interest was more in the Hunter line of sailboats where they show 11 models but then that's their 2015 brochure they're showing.
 
Interesting thread. I love my MS 400, but after owning it for 5 years now there are things that could be improved, most of them electrical, but some access issues as well. A three foot longer, 6 inch wider version of my boat with a little bigger motors would be my dream boat. Not the galley down/aft cabin 430. A bigger version of the 400.


Anyway, a friend just bought a 61' Altima, he really wanted something in the 47 to 53 range, but after a year of looking he decided that there really just aren't many good boats on the market anymore in that size range (or even down to 40'). He says that the manufacturers just aren't making them any more because they can build a 60 for the same basic cost as a 50 and sell it for way more.


Not sure if that is true, but an interesting thought. Not the first person I've heard say that.
 
Dougcole said:
Interesting thread. I love my MS 400, but after owning it for 5 years now there are things that could be improved, most of them electrical, but some access issues as well. A three foot longer, 6 inch wider version of my boat with a little bigger motors would be my dream boat. Not the galley down/aft cabin 430. A bigger version of the 400.


Anyway, a friend just bought a 61' Altima, he really wanted something in the 47 to 53 range, but after a year of looking he decided that there really just aren't many good boats on the market anymore in that size range (or even down to 40'). He says that the manufacturers just aren't making them any more because they can build a 60 for the same basic cost as a 50 and sell it for way more.


Not sure if that is true, but an interesting thought. Not the first person I've heard say that.
Click to expand...

It seems builders suffer from the same size creep, buyers do. Many have moved up in size and dropped their smaller boats over the years. Sometimes too sizes are added or restricted by something as simple as the sizes of their buildings and sheds.

There is a shortage in the 40-60' range, although a few European builders still there. Now, the same thing happens to those building above those ranges. Westport owned Pacific Mariner and once built from 65' to 130'. Now they build from 112'-164' only with larger coming. Sunseeker is big from 40-90' but now build to 131'. Riva built 30-90' but now builds to 161'. Even Nordhavn, built the company on 40-76' but now have a 120' and 98'. KK keeps adding larger, now going up to 70'. As you move up in size the sales dollar to labor dollar increases significantly.
 
I suspect that the profit margin is greater on the large boats so they don’t want to bother with the small boats.
 
Marlow couldn't possibly build a Mainship 400 much less a 34T and make money in that segment. Too much foo foo and some real quality improvements means they would have to charge $100K more than what Mainship would have charged. So maybe no one can make money in that segment.


David
 
djmarchand said:
Marlow couldn't possibly build a Mainship 400 much less a 34T and make money in that segment. Too much foo foo and some real quality improvements means they would have to charge $100K more than what Mainship would have charged. So maybe no one can make money in that segment.


David
Click to expand...

Why do you say Marlow can't build for what Mainship did?
 
BandB said:
Why do you say Marlow can't build for what Mainship did?
Click to expand...


Look at their new Pilot models. Lots of foo foo stuff- looks pretty to some, but isn't very utilitarian. All of which costs money. Mainship didn't do that.



David
 
djmarchand said:
Look at their new Pilot models. Lots of foo foo stuff- looks pretty to some, but isn't very utilitarian. All of which costs money. Mainship didn't do that.



David
Click to expand...


Agreed. It's strange that they bothered to buy Mainship, really, if they weren't going to make a boat along the same concept. Maybe, as was mentioned earlier, they just wanted Hunter and Lurhs.
 
There seems a good balance of buyers and boat offerings in the size range being discussed. A few come to mind such as Back Cove, Sabre, Aspen, Helmsman, North Pacific, Sea Ray, Carver, AT, NT, Riviera and many more. Few though will build an expensive yacht on spec.

Then there is Ranger Tug, continuing to move upmarket.
 
Dougcole said:
Agreed. It's strange that they bothered to buy Mainship, really, if they weren't going to make a boat along the same concept. Maybe, as was mentioned earlier, they just wanted Hunter and Lurhs.
Click to expand...


I think Marlow only bought Hunter and Mainship. Dr. Trocki (the current Buddy Davis and Egg Harbor guy) bought Ovation and Silverton... and somebody else bought Luhrs.

Given Marlow's product line, I was more surprised they wanted Hunter... although that seemed to have been (at the time) maybe one of the more solvent Luhrs Group segments.

-Chris
 
ranger42c said:
I think Marlow only bought Hunter and Mainship. Dr. Trocki (the current Buddy Davis and Egg Harbor guy) bought Ovation and Silverton... and somebody else bought Luhrs.

Given Marlow's product line, I was more surprised they wanted Hunter... although that seemed to have been (at the time) maybe one of the more solvent Luhrs Group segments.

-Chris
Click to expand...

Hunter was the most desirable. Mainship was more a throw in. None of them brought major money.
 
BandB said:
Hunter was the most desirable. Mainship was more a throw in. None of them brought major money.
Click to expand...


Agree. But ref Hunter, I'd still have expected another sailboat company to buy, not Marlow. Maybe a higher-end sailboat builder, who could benefit from building (workforce spread) and marketing a slightly lower-cost entry product.

Mainship could just as well have been an orphan... or maybe another of Dr. Trocki's brand trophies.

But I could see Marlow buying Mainship on purpose to create an entry line... without bothering with Hunter at all. In fact, maybe that "entry" think is what's driving Marlow's marketing/build/sales plan... such as it is. Or isn't.

Just thinking out loud...

-Chris
 
ranger42c said:
Marlow's marketing/build/sales plan... such as it is. Or isn't.

Just thinking out loud...

-Chris
Click to expand...

Yes, I sort of have missed Marlow's marketing/build/sales plan. Maybe it's top secret. I think there was an opportunity with Mainship but it probably required more capital than was available.
 
BandB said:
I think there was an opportunity with Mainship but it probably required more capital than was available.
Click to expand...


Yeah, I think a new version of Mainship could be very viable, carrying on with their original "value for money" approach to building, and given useful placement against the competition. Not apparent that Marlow thinks that.

Yep, not unlikely a capital issue... either not enough available, or not enough interest? commitment? to open somebody's wallet sufficiently...

-Chris
 
I often wonder why Marlow bought MS & Hunter but I don't thonk anyone what (maybe how little) they actually paid for them.

If no one else was bidding I'd guess they got everything for a song.
 
It has always struck me as a paradox in brands between Marlow and Mainship. My conclusion is that they bought the brand/company where it meant they got molds at a cheap price matching want they wanted to produce eg the pilot line. There is a dearth of choice of modern trawlers where the common offering in the 40 to 60 range is some high powered flashy looking, and imho unattractive, floating fast condo. Traditional builders such as defever album disappeared but appear to be making a come back. When Marlow purchased Mainship I was quite interested to see what they would do with the liine, anticipating things like a reincarnated MS 40 but quickly realized with the first pilot launched this was not to be the case.
 
I also love my MS400 but given the current offerings in the market can't see any upgrade path. I'd like something sub-50 foot... a little bigger and a little faster than what I have. Anything that catches my eye is in the million dollar range. The space previously filled by mainship is completely empty. Grandbanks has gone the other way - bigger and even more expensive than before. Swift trawler has a nice look, but the interiors, imho, are terrible compared to the Mainship layout. What else is there? I'd love to hear from MS400 owners what they think of as their "next" boat. I've come up pretty empty. Completely different style, but the new Tiara flybridge boats are nice, but priced in the stratosphere. I rafted up with a Prestige 50 the other day and it was pretty nice and more affordable than most. I pretty much feel like I've been priced out of the market moving forward. Thankfully I love my boat! I did contact Marlow several times over the last couple of years. Initially I was told that they would be building something in the 45 flybridge range but that was just someone telling me what I wanted to hear.
 
ssurabus said:
I also love my MS400 but given the current offerings in the market can't see any upgrade path. I'd like something sub-50 foot... a little bigger and a little faster than what I have. Anything that catches my eye is in the million dollar range. The space previously filled by mainship is completely empty. Grandbanks has gone the other way - bigger and even more expensive than before. Swift trawler has a nice look, but the interiors, imho, are terrible compared to the Mainship layout. What else is there? I'd love to hear from MS400 owners what they think of as their "next" boat. I've come up pretty empty. Completely different style, but the new Tiara flybridge boats are nice, but priced in the stratosphere. I rafted up with a Prestige 50 the other day and it was pretty nice and more affordable than most. I pretty much feel like I've been priced out of the market moving forward. Thankfully I love my boat! I did contact Marlow several times over the last couple of years. Initially I was told that they would be building something in the 45 flybridge range but that was just someone telling me what I wanted to hear.
Click to expand...

You're right on the upgrade path. Now, you even have Sea Ray discontinuing their 40'+ boats. Meridian at one time might have been a logical upgrade but they're gone. Carver does offer a 52'. Cruisers has several models from 50-54'. Sabre has 48'. You mentioned Tiara.

Most of the European builders have something in the range you're talking about. Princess and Sunseeker have models. The years of 2008 to 2011 with few boats being sold have made the used market very limited.

I can think of your question in another way. "What do the people who would have bought Grand Banks do today?
 
maybe Marlow will sell the Mainship molds to a company wanting to re-renter that market. As you all say, there is nothing to compare with the Mainship trawlers or pilots.

My wife and I absolutely love our 2007 pilot 34.
 
djmarchand said:
Look at their new Pilot models. Lots of foo foo stuff- looks pretty to some, but isn't very utilitarian. All of which costs money. Mainship didn't do that.



David
Click to expand...

They chose not to build what Mainship did, but that was choice, not what could or couldn't be built. They followed the "This is not your father's Oldsmobile school of marketing." Change the product so the existing buyers won't buy it and offer what others offer and are already far more known for than you. Suddenly, you don't have the basic Mainship but something that doesn't fit with the history while you're still not going to attract new buyers who don't like the old Mainship. Doom.
 
I'd like to see someone (Marlow?) base a new design on that 47 hull (the one that they called the 43, then the 45, then the 47 all in the span of 18 months or so!). That hull is a good foundation, but Mainship didn't do well on that design - at least for my taste. Particularly the tiny aft cockpit. At this point it would just take too long to trickle down to the used market. It's hard to believe (funny/sad) that in the 300-400K range I can't find a used boat that appeals to me. Obviously people have different budgets, but that's a lot of moolah!
 
Just sold MS 390

[I'd love to hear from MS400 owners what they think of as their "next" boat. I've come up pretty empty. Completely different style, but the new Tiara flybridge boats are nice, but priced in the stratosphere.[/QUOTE]

I spent 5 months on a 2002 MS 390 last year—the most fun I’ve ever had—but we sold the boat. When we looked at the cost of needed repairs and upgrades, we decided to sell, knock off some land-based bucket list items, and find a different type of boat in a year or two from the used market. We decided we didn’t need the extra cabin of the 390, and I’ve become smitten with a sort of Chesapeake Bay deadrise/down east lobster boat hybrid. The Thomas Point 36 by Mast & Mallet is a beautiful fantasy, and perhaps in 2 years a used Back Cove will be affordable. It’s distressing to hear that the options are slim for those who I need to buy up a notch and put their current boats on the market.
 
It definitely is a hole in the market. We searched a while to finally find the 2006 Mainship Aft 430 Aft Cabin after not being able to find a Sabreline 43 when we wanted one. Every broker we spoke to said they could sell new versions of these boats all day if someone would just make them. We do like our 430 aft cabin, and it was one of the last made. I sometimes wonder what if we wanted something newer if anything ever happened to our boat. There's nothing out there that been made in the last 10 years.
 
ssurabus said:
I also love my MS400 but given the current offerings in the market can't see any upgrade path. I'd like something sub-50 foot... a little bigger and a little faster than what I have. Anything that catches my eye is in the million dollar range. The space previously filled by mainship is completely empty. Grandbanks has gone the other way - bigger and even more expensive than before. Swift trawler has a nice look, but the interiors, imho, are terrible compared to the Mainship layout. What else is there? I'd love to hear from MS400 owners what they think of as their "next" boat. I've come up pretty empty. Completely different style, but the new Tiara flybridge boats are nice, but priced in the stratosphere. I rafted up with a Prestige 50 the other day and it was pretty nice and more affordable than most. I pretty much feel like I've been priced out of the market moving forward. Thankfully I love my boat! I did contact Marlow several times over the last couple of years. Initially I was told that they would be building something in the 45 flybridge range but that was just someone telling me what I wanted to hear.
Click to expand...

Tiara do make a very high quality boat so the price tag is expected. My brother has an MS400 so I don’t quite qualify as an owner expressing an opinion on the next boat. However while I don’t think there is an exact match, various options are Selene, Defever, North Pacific Yachts, American tug, Nordic tug. There are so me other options depending on age, design, and cost parameters such as Offshore where they used to make a 48 and Possibly Symbol. Not sure whether new or brokerage is the target search.
 
As a MS 400 owner, ready to move up, it's been very frustrating to find a larger boat that has similar features of the MS400. Now retired, plan to spend 6+ months on the boat. We've looked at KK's Nordhavn's, Flemings, Selene's, Defever's, NP's, Alaskan's etc, in the 46-56' range, 2004 or newer. Sadly, our budget eliminates several brands. The search continues...
 
how about Power cats? Aspen? Leopard? lots of custom power cats and scary one-off power cats. Endeavor?

I agree - it is currently impossible to find the value/power/utility/ease of ownership intersection that represents Mainship. Yes there are nicer boats but the upkeep or price is 10x off! I was looking around too but instead I added some new things to my 2007 and will keep her!
 
My guess is that because the economy is good they will spend their energy producing larger or smaller pilot sized yachts(time in/cash out).

I've seen this before where a company has many different molds available. If the demand for a certain type of boat becoming popular(all things old become new) they will simply build it.

Basically a limited number of hands and right now 50'ers are selling.
 
I have owned ExitPlan a 2000 pilot 34 for 5 years and looked to upgrade. Only thing I could find was a swift-trawler by Beneteau either 35 or 42. But love my mainship so haven’t taken the plunge. Seems like a good layout not too dissimilar to mainship , easy on fuel, decent value and solid reputation from what I can read

I decided to stay with Exitplan a few more years though!!
 
ExitPlan said:
I have owned ExitPlan a 2000 pilot 34 for 5 years and looked to upgrade. Only thing I could find was a swift-trawler by Beneteau either 35 or 42. But love my mainship so haven’t taken the plunge. Seems like a good layout not too dissimilar to mainship , easy on fuel, decent value and solid reputation from what I can read

I decided to stay with Exitplan a few more years though!!
Click to expand...

Back Cove a possibility? Great American builder.
 
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