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Interesting: 1976 Gulf Star

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Capt.Bill11 said:
I would be surprised if the naval architect who drew up that Gulfstar counted on removable weight like fuel to make up the majority of the boats ballast for stability.
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There was no Naval Architect involved, design is credited to the company president, Vince Lazzara. And in 1973 (pre-pc) I would be surprised if there was any stability study at all. In those days it was "put it in the water and see what happens".

To quote the Gulfstar ad in post #20, "the interior space is utilized for fuel and water tankage below the the waterline. This results in a much lower center of gravity than is possible in a typical powerboat hull. "
 
THD said:
Tad-interesting point on the use of the fuel load for ballast. On our Krogen 58', with 18'+ beam, and very soft chined, there is 7,000 lbs of ballast in the keel. I would be worried not only about the stability when close to empty, but also the changing stability as the fuel load decreases. If on an extended run in rough water, having the stability characteristics change as fuel is burned is not a comforting thought!
Click to expand...

It is a serious issue, changes in loading must be considered in any reasonable stability study. In commercial (passenger) vessels at least three load cases are analyzed; Light Ship (no passengers, freight, crew, or consumables aboard), Full Load (everything and everybody aboard, all tanks full), and what's called Arrival Condition (full passengers and crew, 10% tanks). Typically the Arrival Condition is the worst case when stability is least.
 
Tad Roberts said:
There was no Naval Architect involved, design is credited to the company president, Vince Lazzara. And in 1973 (pre-pc) I would be surprised if there was any stability study at all. In those days it was "put it in the water and see what happens".

To quote the Gulfstar ad in post #20, "the interior space is utilized for fuel and water tankage below the the waterline. This results in a much lower center of gravity than is possible in a typical powerboat hull. "
Click to expand...

Yes and he worked with Ted Hood on some designs. Who was a naval architect. So it's not out of the realm of possibility that he looked the designs over.

As to quote #20, that proves nothing. It doesn't state that the tanks completely take the place of permanent ballast. A number of vessels have fuel and water tanks at or below the waterline. And they don't become unsafe as the fluids are used.

People can nit pick this boat all they want. And it could have stability issues. But to say or imply it's some how dangerous due to the modifications made to it with no more evidence than some pictures and a video is bit irresponsible.
 
Uh, CaptBill, to paraphrase the old EF Hutton ad, "When Tad Roberts speaks you'd better listen."
 
Most of this conversation is directed at the basic design before the owner made a 3 story building on top of the questionable beginnings complete w heavy stuff on the upper decks.
 
Greetings,
Mr. m. I quite like the original design as shown in the sales brochure (post #20). Quite "sleek" looking. As noted "...stabilized in part by the lower location of the fuel tanks." depending on levels of fuel for stability is questionable.
 
Adding heavy stuff up high sure worked out fine on the ferry "Sewol"...
 
sunchaser said:
Uh, CaptBill, to paraphrase the old EF Hutton ad, "When Tad Roberts speaks you'd better listen."
Click to expand...

I am. But doesn't mean I can't question as well. :)

But while we all know adding weight up high on a boat can be a bad thing. We don't know that in this case a naval architect was not consulted, a stability study wasn't done, ballast wasn't added nor what type and weight materials were used in these modifications. So condemning this boat out of hand seems premature to me, that's all.

I would also think any reputable company that does that kind of work would see to it that any modifications that they did were done right with any stability issues covered so it could not come back to BTITA later in a court of law.

But I could be completely wrong and the vessel is a death trap.
 
I'd estimate at least 3000 lbs added to top and likely 8 feet above CG. From my sailing days we'd fight for getting every pound we could as low as possible when storms were brewing. Not to mention keeping the vessel as upright as possible so it would sail faster.

On our vessel I move about 200 pounds of stuff from the FB DOWN 10 to 12 feet when serious cruising is to occur. Boating 101 .
 
I'm in the "cut all add-on stuff off of the top and you'd have a pretty nice boat" crowd.

I hope Marin sees that fly bridge.


(Hi Marin!)
 
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Capt.Bill11 said:
Yes and he worked with Ted Hood on some designs. Who was a naval architect. So it's not out of the realm of possibility that he looked the designs over.
Click to expand...

I'll nit-pick just a little and then shut up, I've stated my opinion on the boat.

Ted Hood was not a naval architect, he had no training in the subject. Dieter Empacher, who worked for Ted and did all his early design work was the naval architect.

Besides that sidetrack into the wilds....Surely we can agree that the Gulfstar 53 was one thing when designed 40 years ago, and this highly modified version is something very different today.


People can nit pick this boat all they want. And it could have stability issues. But to say or imply it's some how dangerous due to the modifications made to it with no more evidence than some pictures and a video is bit irresponsible.
Click to expand...
Please realize there are many folks looking at this forum with no experience of boats at all. You realize there may be a stability issue with this boat, but many would not. It is to those folks I am speaking.

Yesterday I had a PM from another member here who just bought a boat and was wondering about her stability. He could find no information publicly available on the stability of this popular production boat. As the boat he bought is unmodified and from a well respected designer (who has his name on the plans), I was able to reassure this owner that his boat will be fine and take him anywhere safely.

I feel strongly that stability of pleasure boats is an issue that is too often swept under the rug and ignored. I would like to encourage understanding of the issue. Yelling fire in a crowded theater is irresponsible, but it's also irresponsible not pointing out that a child playing in the street is unsafe. (IMO)
 
Spy you think Marin's snoop'in around? I doubt it.
Do you have inside knowledge?

Seems to me the rudder is way fwd of the transom (on the stock boat) and the keel terminates w the prop way fwd of the rudders. Maybe my memory's not correct but if it is why does only one boat have that wildly different configuration? At least it should be less likely to fall off on her bow especially w the aft cabin.

For me the fuel tanks would work ok as ballast as we keep ours quite full. But proper ballast is usually lower than fuel tanks. Our concrete and steel ballast is at least 2' below our engine and our engine is about a foot below the fuel when the tanks are full.

I'd like to see a steadying sail aft on this boat and for that matter my boat too. Most trawlers could probably benefit from a steadying sail and aft in most cases ... IMO.
 
Tad Roberts said:
I'll nit-pick just a little and then shut up, I've stated my opinion on the boat.

Ted Hood was not a naval architect, he had no training in the subject. Dieter Empacher, who worked for Ted and did all his early design work was the naval architect.

Besides that sidetrack into the wilds....Surely we can agree that the Gulfstar 53 was one thing when designed 40 years ago, and this highly modified version is something very different today.


Please realize there are many folks looking at this forum with no experience of boats at all. You realize there may be a stability issue with this boat, but many would not. It is to those folks I am speaking.

Yesterday I had a PM from another member here who just bought a boat and was wondering about her stability. He could find no information publicly available on the stability of this popular production boat. As the boat he bought is unmodified and from a well respected designer (who has his name on the plans), I was able to reassure this owner that his boat will be fine and take him anywhere safely.

I feel strongly that stability of pleasure boats is an issue that is too often swept under the rug and ignored. I would like to encourage understanding of the issue. Yelling fire in a crowded theater is irresponsible, but it's also irresponsible not pointing out that a child playing in the street is unsafe. (IMO)
Click to expand...


Points taken and agreed with.

The reason I though Ted Hood was a naval architect is because that is what I had read several times over the years. I apparently I'm incorrect. As is his obit on the National Sailing Hall of Fame site.

"For nearly 20 years, Ted Hood was a dominant force in sailing. A distinguished American yachtsman and naval architect,"

Well, as they say, you learn something new everyday. :)
 
manyboats said:
I'd like to see a steadying sail aft on this boat and for that matter my boat too. Most trawlers could probably benefit from a steadying sail and aft in most cases ... IMO.
Click to expand...

I believe, Just as Tad Roberts has suggested a steadying sail may accelerate the question as to the stability of the boat.. it already LOOKS as though it will heel over in a fair wind on it's own.. no help from a sail would be necessary.
It is reminiscent of the photo below.

HOLLYWOOD
 

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I think it's a nice looking boat, too large for me. I installed a custom hardtop on my Mainship 40SB (hardly a trawler), it was a very expensive upgrade. The modification limits my ability to take the boat up the Erie Canal or on the loop. She's stable as a rock just too tall. I can't even sell her unless the delivery can be made via water.
Bill
 
Not my type of boat, but if it stays at the dock or in flat water, the pent house is a great place to watch the sun go down and for some people that seems to be enough.
 
Capt.Bill11 said:
I must be missing something.Because none of the photos look PhotoShopped to me. Which photos are you talking about?
Click to expand...

My comment is that the photo of the boat, as below, "looks" like something someone might photoshop rather than actually build. Included is a version that I photoshopped myself. I don't find one more difficult to believe than another, but no matter what I did to improve it, the finished product looked like a top-heavy photoshop rendition.

As mentioned in a previous post, lots of boat owners are just looking for a warm, dry, or maybe in this case a cool, dry place from which to pilot the boat. Still, it's hard to believe how much more material (weight and windage) some will spend the money to add to their boat, often without ever consulting a Naval Architect.
 

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Ski in NC said:
Ugggh. Perkins turbos with manicoolers. No thanks.
Click to expand...

Love the beautiful rust accents, dirt layers and dried out rubber hoses. Yep, attention lavishly applied everywhere… except where it counts… like in the engine room of a 60ft boat with sole-buried engine.

I guess everyone has to set their own priorities.
 
Up here adding a hard enclosure to the flying bridge seems to be a pretty popular, abet really ugly modification.

In FL they seal the oxygen tent to add air cond to survive 95F with 99% humidity in the baking sun

Still PUG UGLY!
 
FF said:
Up here adding a hard enclosure to the flying bridge seems to be a pretty popular, abet really ugly modification.

In FL they seal the oxygen tent to add air cond to survive 95F with 99% humidity in the baking sun

Still PUG UGLY!
Click to expand...
That's what I did. I have a Coleman 15,000BTU heat pump AC unit on the hardtop. It works well when it's cold out and when it's hot.
Bill
 
opinion as to the original design

I am new here and sorry to dig up an old thread. But, a stock boat like this is available here in L.A. for a reasonable price and I'd like to get opinions about it. The beam is 15' on a rounded hull. Bad for rolling, good for efficiency? It is the same hull as the GS53 motorsailer, so it has a 4.5' draft with a long keel. 6.354 engines? I've always heard these were good engines but there was an earlier comment about manifolds. Also mentioned was the addition of a steadying sail. Coming from a sailing background a sail under way seems like a reasonable way to attenuate some of the possible rolling. Paravanes? My only powerboat experience was with a uniflyte 42 but that was a way different style of boat.

Thanks
Bob
 
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I thought about pavanes for my boat but did a steadying sail instead. I didn’t really have the structure for paravanes, and I didn’t want the drag on my already slow boat.

Have had the sails on for a year and still like them. With enough wind (over 5 knots) the sails really help reduce the roll. It will still roll in beam or quartering seas but it’s a controlled roll compared to the wild 20 degree roll I had before.
 
I'll let you all know more about this boat as I am looking at it today. I had the same concern about stability and wondered it the addition of the stabilizers are there to compensate for a higher CD. I will be asking for a report.
 
CG is static. Stabilizers are dynamic.

No stabs won’t help unless underway.

And underway this boat will need stabs. They aren’t excessively wide and have a roundish bottom. But it may not be as bad as it looks.

Reminds me of a kayacker that usta say “stick your ear in the water”.
 
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