Power Cats for cruising

Does anyone think there's a market or demand for a power cat to make The Loop with or just go on extended cruises?

It would be around 37-41ft, displacement hull with twin diesels. I don't know if demand would dictate a 25 kt cruise or put some smaller diesels in and make it about a 15 kt cruise.

It would be stable at anchor, shallow draft for the ICW, make better speed than typical trawlers while keeping fuel burn low and have a low air draft for bridges.

The hope would be to build it nice, but not have a price point that 99% of the world can't afford. I've been looking at other power cats in production and they're $800k and more.

Would anyone here be interested in something like this.

SaltyDawg86 said:

Does anyone think there's a market or demand for a power cat to make The Loop with or just go on extended cruises?

It would be around 37-41ft, displacement hull with twin diesels. I don't know if demand would dictate a 25 kt cruise or put some smaller diesels in and make it about a 15 kt cruise.

It would be stable at anchor, shallow draft for the ICW, make better speed than typical trawlers while keeping fuel burn low and have a low air draft for bridges.

The hope would be to build it nice, but not have a price point that 99% of the world can't afford. I've been looking at other power cats in production and they're $800k and more.

Would anyone here be interested in something like this.

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I have always been interested in power cats and had searched them for quite a while. What held me up was price, beam accommodation at many sites, ability to take on weight without affecting trim & performance, and quality with some of the offerings.
Although not a problem on our list I think the general public also has issues with the typical limited cabin spaces.

Greetings,
Mr. 86. I think there would indeed be a market for such a vessel IF the price point was attractive. Pretty well the ONLY beef I have with any cats I've been on is the difficulty in getting to the engines. I suppose, given the beam of each of the hulls, this is the nature of the beast. One could readily solve this "problem" by powering with outboards but that may introduce a whole other list of problems that I can't think of right now.

One major push back for me would be the price of the slip at my marina. They would bill me the price for 2 boats.

L

I have a power catamaran I had built. It is 48ft overall with a 23ft beam. Unless you want to compromise space in the twin hulls you will not get the fuel improvement you want, but still somewhat better than a similar length displacement monohull. Engine accessibility wouldn't be compromised if you don't use the hulls for staterooms. I have walk-around room in the engine compartments which are just over 6ft tall. Yes, always looking for an end-tie or mooring ball, but that isn't too big an issue in the PNW. Currently docked in a boat-house slip in Scappoose, OR.

Double-Wide

Outboards would be perfect as it would give you more room inside the hulls.

I think there is a boat on the market now that has a wide and a skinny hull, and only has one engine in the wider hull so it tracks straight. I thought that was pretty clever.

PDQ Passagemakers are pretty frugal.

These guys have something that might fit the bill. I don't know their prices, but it does seem that they are targeting the budget end of the market without too much compromise on style and fitout.

https://powerplaycatamarans.com/

25 knots in a 40' displacement cat is pushing the limits of hull speed. Easy in a semi or planing cat but not real displacement hull cat. The organization I work for is looking into a displacement cat for use as a pilot boat. We are looking at speeds of 18 or so knots in a 40' displacement cat using two 170hp diesels.

Insequent said:

These guys have something that might fit the bill. I don't know their prices, but it does seem that they are targeting the budget end of the market without too much compromise on style and fitout.

https://powerplaycatamarans.com/

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Taken the factory from Townsville to Pattaya now

Also see tiger rose has had a major haircut in price.
Pretty sure that was a $1.5 build?

https://yachthub.com/list/boats-for...at-56-by-power-play-with-volvo-diesels/211219

Would a beam of 14ft be too skinny?

I'd love to have a sub-$300k price point. I know where some molds are for hulls, I'd just have to reconfigure the top side. Having a mold for the hull would be a huge savings, which would pass along the savings.

You could try a Endeavour 44. Many have used that as a "looper" and there are a few on the market at the moment.

Aquila is the most successful moderate priced catamaran, been used for ages for chartering in the Caribbean. They have a 36' outboard version with a 15' beam and up to a 48' boat with a 24' beam.

I read of a family that did the loop in a catamaran and they loved it and can't understand why anyone would choose anything else. Especially they found the draft in their favor. Note that even the 48' Aquila has a draft of only 3'7".

There was lower priced catamaran company a few years ago that basically was a large, fancy pontoon boat but was chasing the low price customer. They faded away during the recession.

PDQ made a 41 but had financial troubles. The market did not really take to cats. Most marinas are not set up to handle the huge beam.

BandB said:

I read of a family that did the loop in a catamaran and they loved it and can't understand why anyone would choose anything else. Especially they found the draft in their favor. Note that even the 48' Aquila has a draft of only 3'7".

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That's what I don't understand, people who ride on them love them, but the industry is so slow to accept change.



How wide are the slips that usually hold 40 footers? A 36ft Grand Banks has a beam of almost 13ft and the beam of the boats I'm looking to build are around 14, maybe slightly less.

I know the interior design has to be close to perfect in order for people to take hold of it, esp given the design challenges cats are known for. There's always compromises when it comes to finding a boat though.

How about an asymmetrical power cat. http://aspenpowercatamarans.com/wp-...al-Power-Cats-_-Pacific-Yachting-March-09.pdf

tiltrider1 said:

How about an asymmetrical power cat. http://aspenpowercatamarans.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/08/Aspen-Power-Catamarans-_-Breakthrough-Aspens-Asymmetrical-Power-Cats-_-Pacific-Yachting-March-09.pdf

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Wow, that's impressive. That's wild that it's cheaper to build them in Asia then ship it to the US vs building it here.

SaltyDawg86 said:

That's what I don't understand, people who ride on them love them, but the industry is so slow to accept change.



How wide are the slips that usually hold 40 footers? A 36ft Grand Banks has a beam of almost 13ft and the beam of the boats I'm looking to build are around 14, maybe slightly less.

I know the interior design has to be close to perfect in order for people to take hold of it, esp given the design challenges cats are known for. There's always compromises when it comes to finding a boat though.

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Most slips for 40' are generally in the 16' range and as you move up to 60', you move up to 20-22'. So typically for a 24' Beam Catamaran, you're talking two 40-50' slips or you're talking a 70-80' slip. Either way you're paying double.

Now, the interesting thing is that when a transient, you're generally side tie and so the fit isn't a problem. Some marinas don't even charge extra and others charge 1.5 times the length price.

I think there are also some who believe catamarans not to be as good in rough seas. There's some truth to it, but then there are all sorts of catamaran designs.

I have a problem with the staterooms in the catamaran hulls. Even in the nicer ones I feel a bit claustrophobic. Would I adjust or just freak out worse? I don't know. I'd have to charter before buying.

When we selected our KK Manatee, most of the boats on our short list were cats. Space, economy and draft were high on our list of priorities. If I wasn't so big and stiff, the PDQ 34 would have been our loop boat. Decent space, super efficient, separate shower, good galley and with a beam of 16 ft, not that bad for loop slips anywhere. Tight, but doable maintenance spaces. You still need to lie over the engines to change out the impellers though. The PDQ 41 is nearly as efficient with more capacity and a main deck master stateroom. A bit better in the service spaces and cavernous storage help but the cost is still out of our range. With a beam over 18', somewhat more difficult to get slips but if I could afford one I'd deal with it.

Endeavour 36 is an excellent loop boat and at mid 100's pricing, you get three staterooms and a big shower/head on a good economic platform. They are ugly and the bridge deck is a bit low, but maintenance spaces are reasonable. It's bigger sister 44 Trawlercat has a great full beam forward master and like the 36, a low profile for reduced windage and bridge clearance. The wider hulls make for more space in the rear staterooms and engine cells beneath the berths. Bob Vincent keeps improving the design here and there.

Endeavour also offers their 40 Sky Lounge and 38 Trawlercat with twin inboard diesels or gas outboards. Again, with beams of 16 ft., the slip challenge around the loop is much more manageable than most. Additionally, the 40 Sky Lounge is a genuine condo on keels. The 38 uses the same hulls minus the Sky Lounge's upper deck, giving it better windage and lighter overall weight for the hulls, probably improved economy. The outboards leave the former engine spaces empty for massive storage, but even with the inboard diesels, access is decent.

Other loop candidates in the 300 or below range would have to include the Fontaine Pajot 37 Maryland (maintenance really tight), a few custom makers and maybe the Leopard 37's now coming off charter leases. Worth mentioning are some of the damaged Leopard 47 charter cats coming from the Caribbean. They are cheap enough if you can find someone to repair them. If I was a bit younger, I may take on one of those myself, but trying to loop in one of those 47's, too wide. If not already, one might find an older Robinson & Caine 47 in the 300 range, not as efficient, but I think the beam was around 19 or so.

Lagoon 43's and 44's might fall in the 300 range, but feature two wet heads instead of separate showers, and even though the master is a gorgeous looking thing, the half-height ceiling idea just doesn't work for me. The boat slams in head seas and maintenance space is tight. It's good looking, but over 21' wide, not the best looper. There are a few Africats (great, but wide) and some custom makes that might qualify, but keeping under 300 and loop-able isn't that easy while still having enough room for what basically must become your home for a year. My 2 cents.

Just so we're clear b because I think some people have the wrong idea, I'm not looking for a Loop boat. I'm looking to start my own yacht building company and build cat cruisers. I'm just wondering if there's enough demand to make my time worthwhile.

Side note, this cruiser wouldn't be the only boat I build. There's a lot of molds for sale and I'm wondering if picking up a bigger mold is worth while or if I should stick to just smaller fishing boats (a spot a lot of inshore charter captains feel has been abandoned by boat builders).

curiousity and google got me to an article about fishing cats. It gives a breif description of 5 cats for fishing. ( 26 feet -45 feet )

https://www.sportfishingmag.com/fishing-boats/five-big-water-cats#page-10

Dawg kindly clarify. You're asking if there is a market for power catamarans that pretty much describes every other power catamaran out there on the market, in the bareboat charter fleets worldwide, cruising the Loop and pretty much everywhere else at 15 knots to 25 knots+.

Or perhaps you are considering producing true "trawler" cats that are designed to compete with the Nordies and Kadies and Dashews out there. That might be a great niche market in my opinion as long as the pricing is slightly lower and the boat is beefy enough to truly be called an expedition boat.

This guy has done amazing things with a normal sail cat. Very inspiring.
Fountaine Pajot Salina 48 in Antarctica | Catamaran Dealer

A question to ask yourself is if you have the resources and backing to move forward with:

• Hiring a professional consultant to research the market and give realistic recommendations;
• Hire a world-class designer (this helps with marketing) and perhaps conduct some expensive ship model water tank testing;
• Building your prototype;
• Add another miillion bucks for a heavy marketing campaign that can compete with Nordy, Dashew, etc.
• Have enough funds to operate for 4+ years until you start showing a profit.

I get tired just thinking about such an endeavor. Personally if it were me and I had 1/4 of that money needed, I would just build my own boat and go sailing around the world.

Ok, let me try again since I'm somehow missing people.

I'm not trying to build just any power cat. I know they are all over the world, I've had one and they were great.

I'm looking to create a cat, with 2 diesels (power cat, not a sailing cat) to do things like travel The Loop, travel around bays (Chesapeake, Tampa, etc), travel rivers and be stout enough to make the short run from Fla. to the Bahamas. Not a true "blue water, sail around the world" type boat, but a nice, stout boat that would allow the travels stated above.

It wouldn't have the massive 20ft plus beam, it would be around 14ft to allow docking, about a 2ft draft for shallow rivers or ICW, and about a 15-16ft air draft to allow for fixed bridges.

I know where molds are for the hull, I'd just need to design the house and living area. I have Naval Arc friends who are more than willing to help design it.

I asked the question here since there are a lot of people here from all walks of life. It's a small sample, but would give me an idea if it's even worth looking into.

I have been a mutli huller since the 1960's , when I had a 45ft Hedly Nicholes Voyager trimiran ketch constructed in then British Honduras.

The narrow hulls of a mulihull allow a higher top speed sometimes in rougher water , and many are roomarans with great living space , if large enough.

All this comes at a price , the long skinney (ez to push at high speed) hulls have more wetted surface at lower speeds .

This means at 6-9K they are less efficient than the usual 3-1 length / beam of fat monohulls. The required light weight masks this to some extent.

Light weight means more complex , more expensive construction , to cruise faster , which few seem willing to pay for.

To be easier to push the hull must be better than 6-1 L/B , but as the L/B number gets higher for more speed , the poorer it is at low speed .

Just some observations,

Yes it’s worth it...Endeavour in Florida has been doing narrower beam, twin diesel power cats for years...These cats are being used for the things that you describe....I might go for a nice used Endeavour myself. Also Aspen builds a single engine Proa Hull, Sadly they use the Volvo..

SaltyDawg86 said:

Ok, let me try again since I'm somehow missing people.

I'm not trying to build just any power cat. I know they are all over the world, I've had one and they were great.

I'm looking to create a cat, with 2 diesels (power cat, not a sailing cat) to do things like travel The Loop, travel around bays (Chesapeake, Tampa, etc), travel rivers and be stout enough to make the short run from Fla. to the Bahamas. Not a true "blue water, sail around the world" type boat, but a nice, stout boat that would allow the travels stated above.

It wouldn't have the massive 20ft plus beam, it would be around 14ft to allow docking, about a 2ft draft for shallow rivers or ICW, and about a 15-16ft air draft to allow for fixed bridges.

I know where molds are for the hull, I'd just need to design the house and living area. I have Naval Arc friends who are more than willing to help design it.

I asked the question here since there are a lot of people here from all walks of life. It's a small sample, but would give me an idea if it's even worth looking into.

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As you now describe it, a resounding "No". A Catamaran with a 14' beam, 2' draft and twin diesels? If you were able to create such a boat, it's such an outlier as to have zero viability. At a 14' beam, your staterooms would be 4' or something like that. How you get 2' draft with twin diesels on such a boat would have to mean no equipment to speak of and still seems hard to imagine. Perhaps if you went with jets.

Now, I come back to the big issue before the specifics of the boat. Start up costs of boat building. I don't know your available funding but partners are worse than bad marriages and you must be prepared to fully build at least a couple of the boats at your own cost without a sale to have something to sell. I see $10 million as a minimum capital requirement and one must be prepared to lose all of it. Boat building is capital intensive and getting to the first completed boat is a many years project. I know of those who have been in the industry for decades and just trying to start a new line and can't get it done. I see the loss of everything you've worked so hard for all these years.

The only easy way into boat building is to find a Chinese yard and have them build you one custom which then becomes your demo or ultimately just your private boat. Problem is as a one-off even it's price will be too high for you to resell profitably.

I understand the dream. I've had it. Looked at a brand with long history built off shore and the possibility of moving it on shore just to save it, but couldn't make anything happen. Looked at a new line based on a combination of two old lines and talked about where to build and how to start and what boats in the line and then returned to my senses. The only small builders I know successful today are the custom sportfish builders along the east coast and they have quite substantial investments in their businesses and a history and reputation as custom builders.

My dream boat line. A series of semi-displacement cruisers in the 35-85' range, modern day versions of the Bayliner Pilothouse models up through the Pacific Mariner 65 and 85. All from the same heritage. Ideally building where those boats were built in the PNW. If not then SE Coast. Setting up lines with the efficiencies of Bayliner and Westport. I think there's a market being missed since the relative demise of Grand Banks and waiting for their new emergence. However, I know the difficulty of promoting a new line, the cost involved, the headaches, and boating is a far better hobby than boat building and many far better ways of making money. So, I've dreamed as you are, but the realities always take me back where I started.

The wife would really love a Cat, even more than myself, we have toured many Endeavor Cats but they were all pricey for us.

We happily settled (for now) for a good, used Grand Banks 36 Classic but we would really love a shallow running Cat. Our GB needs 4' of water and has an airdraft of 22.5'

I say build 'em!!

BandB said:

As you now describe it, a resounding "No". A Catamaran with a 14' beam, 2' draft and twin diesels? If you were able to create such a boat, it's such an outlier as to have zero viability. At a 14' beam, your staterooms would be 4' or something like that. How you get 2' draft with twin diesels on such a boat would have to mean no equipment to speak of and still seems hard to imagine. Perhaps if you went with jets.

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You say its not possible, yet there are boats out there like this.

Not sure how you figure it will have no equipment and 4' staterooms, but everyone is open to their own visions.

As far as the draft, you act as if a 2ft draft is set in stone. "About a 2ft draft" means it may go deeper, but it will still be less than a mono-hull of a similar size.

SaltyDawg86 said:

You say its not possible, yet there are boats out there like this.

Not sure how you figure it will have no equipment and 4' staterooms, but everyone is open to their own visions.

As far as the draft, you act as if a 2ft draft is set in stone. "About a 2ft draft" means it may go deeper, but it will still be less than a mono-hull of a similar size.

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You tell me how wide the lower deck staterooms would be then? And I don't see a draft under 3'6" or at least 3', unless going to outboards or jets. You're the one I got the 2' from. I don't consider 3' to be about 2'. What boat out there comes closest to your vision?

Sweet baby Ray... Nothing has changed. You would argue with me if I said the sky was blue.

Thanks for your input.