Jellyfish Attack!!!

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Greetings,
Mr. m. Thanks for that. One thing in the link puzzled me. " You can also drive them away by shuffling your feet in the water as you walk." Hmmm...Not sure how that would work.


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It won't.

This from someone whose whole family got whacked - mostly right behind the knee as we backstroked to the boat, by these things.
 
RT Firefly said:
Greetings,
Mr. m. Thanks for that. One thing in the link puzzled me. " You can also drive them away by shuffling your feet in the water as you walk." Hmmm...Not sure how that would work.


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That is usually the recommendation for how to avoid being hit by a Sting Ray.
 
Steve said:
That is usually the recommendation for how to avoid being hit by a Sting Ray.
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Yup, rays hug the sand. These floating feckers, well, they float! And getting banged by one right behind the knee is an experience you do not want to have.

Whimper? I was a basket case!
 
I got hit by a jellyfish on the back of the leg, including the back of the knee, over 20 years ago...I still remember it vividly.
 
The jellies here come out in summer. Nasty buggers. Got hit on the neck while diving - not fun
 
If unlucky enough to get stung, wash liberally with white vinegar, big bottle of it is standard equipment in summer over here.
 
auskiwi said:
If unlucky enough to get stung, wash liberally with white vinegar, big bottle of it is standard equipment in summer over here.
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:thumb:
Then apply cortisone cream, a must have on board.
 
Shuffling feet is good advice to avoid sting rays in the shallows. Especially in the Summer when they come out of the deeper water looking for warmer temps. I have been stung 3 times and those little guys things pack quite a punch. If you get stung by a ray -hot water. Pee is an old wifes tale, at least for Rays.
 
I was swimming in the surf on Cumberland Island, GA two years ago. All the doctors can figure is I got into an area filled with microscopic sized jellyfish. I was a giant welt on my entire body except above my neck and head. It took a month's worth of high powered prednisone to deal with it. It as misery. I'm from Florida. I thought I knew what a jellyfish looked like. I have since discovered that they come in all sizes.
 
Each jellyfish tentacle is covered with thousands of stinging cells with syringe-like body parts called nematocysts - if you like medical jargon - which live along the length of the animal's tentacles and fire venom. The venom is a neurotoxin designed to paralyze jellyfish prey.

Too numerous species of jellyfish therefore I am not intended to provide any particular advice. However a few things may help lessen the pain of jellyfish stings:

Do not rinse the skin with sea water or fresh water. Water brings just a soft neurological sensation which has nothing to do with denaturing the venom. Also water can worsen the symptoms.

Apply vinegar, this had been shown to prevent further venom release by allowing the tentacles (if some) and stinging cells to be safely removed. Also vinegar may help to partially inactivate the venom for most of jellyfish stings.

Carefully shave the skin with the edge of a credit card or ID card to eliminate most of the stinging cells.

Apply a corticosteroid cream (if no allergies, intolerance or other related medical issues to cortisone or hydrocortisone).

Seek medical attention particulary before taking any topical medication.
 

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Greetings,
A question for the "medicos" or those in the know...What are the chances of anaphylactic shock? Would it be prudent to put an epi-pen in the medical kit or are there OTC medications that might lessen the symptoms pending medical treatment?
 
RT Firefly said:
Greetings,
A question for the "medicos" or those in the know...What are the chances of anaphylactic shock? Would it be prudent to put an epi-pen in the medical kit or are there OTC medications that might lessen the symptoms pending medical treatment?
Click to expand...

Yes Sir there is severe risk of strong anaphylactic reaction at any age.

I trust you understand that I can’t reply in public to your 2nd question. I will PM you.
 
Vinegar and creams don’t help when your underwater and get stung. At that point you grab handfuls of mud or sand and rub the heck out of it. Same when in the surf. Like getting stung by a bee - you have to remove the stinger ASAP.
 
any kind of pressure on the area will cause the nematocysts to fire and make things worse. Vinegar reacts with the venom to reduce its effectiveness. Soaking in hot water will also do that. Luckily the moon jellies mentioned in the OP have very short tentacles, to they are relatively easy to avoid. Portugese Man-o-war have tentacles that can be 50 feet long or more, and have a much more potent venom. I swim around moon jellies....I exit the water for the man-o-war!
 
I had the absolute pleasure of having a blue-bottle tentacle go down the collar of my wetsuit as I duck-dived under a wave when I was around 13yo. Not a recommended experience.
 
Regarding allergic reactions to sting rays at least, attached is a picture of my foot from last Summer in the ER. My foot was red hot, itchy, swollen and needed constant ice. I finally went in after four days and they drew the line shown to monitor. It was my third sting, and every one has gotten worse so some people will get hit harder than others. I am also allergic to bee stings for what this is worth. I have always been told Benadryl is a good way to control it. Also, if you get stung, make sure the stinger is not in your foot. Most times the Ray will retract it, but the ER Doc said they do break off on occasion which can pose even more risk to a person predisposed to an allergic reaction. Shuffle your feet.
 

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RT Firefly said:
Greetings,
A question for the "medicos" or those in the know...What are the chances of anaphylactic shock? Would it be prudent to put an epi-pen in the medical kit or are there OTC medications that might lessen the symptoms pending medical treatment?
Click to expand...


Anyone can experience anaphylaxis. It can be life threatening. In the office, we alway have an Epipen handy. I’ve never had to use it on a patient yet in 35 years of practice. It likely will happen.

I think it would be prudent to have one on board as part of your medical kit. I do not at this time, but it is time to review and refresh our kit. You can buy a two-pack of Epipens. If you have a relationship with a physician, they can prescribe it for you.

Allergies are odd things. You can have a mild reaction to something once, and the next time you are exposed you can experience anaphylaxis. Having an Epipen on board can protect you and your family, as well as any guests you have on board.

There are risks to using an Epipen for certain patients with some types of heart disease or taking certain medications. However, unless you know you have one of those risk factors, I would use it.

Often folks are concerned about not knowing when/if they should administer it. I’m no expert obviously but my attitude is to use it at the first sign of life threatening symptoms. This could include swelling or tingling of the mouth and throat, shortness of breath, or light headedness and nausea. The risks of anaphylaxis are greater than unnecessary use of the epinephrine.

The Epipen has gotten stupidly expensive. You can now get other automatic epinephrine injectors that are much less expensive, particularly if you shop around.
 
dhays said:
Anyone can experience anaphylaxis. It can be life threatening. In the office, we alway have an Epipen handy. I’ve never had to use it on a patient yet in 35 years of practice. It likely will happen.

I think it would be prudent to have one on board as part of your medical kit. I do not at this time, but it is time to review and refresh our kit. You can buy a two-pack of Epipens. If you have a relationship with a physician, they can prescribe it for you.

Allergies are odd things. You can have a mild reaction to something once, and the next time you are exposed you can experience anaphylaxis. Having an Epipen on board can protect you and your family, as well as any guests you have on board.

There are risks to using an Epipen for certain patients with some types of heart disease or taking certain medications. However, unless you know you have one of those risk factors, I would use it.

Often folks are concerned about not knowing when/if they should administer it. I’m no expert obviously but my attitude is to use it at the first sign of life threatening symptoms. This could include swelling or tingling of the mouth and throat, shortness of breath, or light headedness and nausea. The risks of anaphylaxis are greater than unnecessary use of the epinephrine.

The Epipen has gotten stupidly expensive. You can now get other automatic epinephrine injectors that are much less expensive, particularly if you shop around.
Click to expand...

As a physician (medical doctor), I am frightened by the way you posted on this particular topic, Mr Dhays. In a public place you cannot make that kind of statement into which you can just post anything you want. So, judgment was necessary in determining what to put in and what to leave out. This is too important to people here, and risk are too high.

I think it would be prudent to have one on board as part of your medical kit.
You said that without giving the temperature much thought to people here. Are you aware about the importance of keeping epinephrine temperatures regulated at room temperature of 64.4-78.8°F ( 18-26°C) ? Do you know that epipen instructions say to keep epinephrine at an ideal temperature of 77 degrees, also to never leave epinephrine in a car since closed vehicles reach extreme temperatures in the summer and winter which is the same for boat. ? Why didn't you say that althought this was a crucial point ?

If you have a relationship with a physician, they can prescribe it for you.
Yes, but for you and you alone.

Having an Epipen on board can protect you and your family, as well as any guests you have on board.
Are you serious ? How can you make sure epinephrine (EpiPen) is safe for them ? Even if you have an official medical prescription from your health specialist, this does not, however, give you the right to take decisions for your family or guests or anyone else. Not only you may allow people to be in danger or hurt in this particular situation but you put yourself in danger as well to the law relating to the illegal practice of medicine.

There are risks to using an Epipen for certain patients with some types of heart disease or taking certain medications. However, unless you know you have one of those risk factors, I would use it.
How can you know whether your relative or guest is at risk of heart failure, possible cardiac sensitization, or not ? Many individuals are sick without knowing it. I see that in my practice daily.
If you want to run this risk, do so. But do not advise people here of the forum to run a risk which they perhaps cannot afford to take.

Professional help can be found through your family doctor, talk this over with him or her. Only if you get an individualized official medical prescription for yourself alone or others, keep the auto-injector for epinephrine in its carrier tube at all times aboard, at room temperature in a insulated lunch bag, do not refrigerate, protect it from light. Epinephrine can’t have ice directly on it, but wrapping ice and/or the epinephrine in a towel creates the perfect buffer. Then I place the epinephrine and towel into an insulated pouch which I never leave aboard when I am away from the boat.
Take a close look at the auto-injector and its instructions, be sure to ask your doctor a training session during your appointment. Also keep aboard a fully automatic wrist blood pressure cuff monitor with extra batteries which is a modest amount of extra expense for a valuable aid.

I have been a member of the forum for just 19 days after enjoyed it for six years as a guest. I was not here to criticise you neither to fight with anyone then I trust that my post would be deleted by the TF team. But the question as to how far to go in playing the sorcerer's apprentice with the very core of the health of others had, at some point, to be raised.
 
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Greetings,
M. LM. Thanks for the education. I actually thought that an Epipen was a general "cure-all" for any toxic shock victims. I know better now and will NOT pursue the matter any further. Hopefully I will never be in a position to regret my decision.



We know folks with bee/wasp sting allergies and they always have these devices close at hand during the appropriate seasons although I never asked them any particulars about usage.


So. Vinegar it is and a sharp eye out for...


200w.gif



As an aside...A few years back we were transiting the ICW and ran through a "school" of jelly fish. Not quite as dense as the above gif but there must have been dozens upon dozens over a 4 or 5 mile stretch. Big 'uns as well. Some upwards of 10" in diameter...


Oh ya. Shuffle for rays.


200w.gif
 
Thank you Sir but I did not express a real opinion - in that public place - about to carry or not to carry epipen. I just rectified significant inaccuracies or omissions.

What I meant to say:
Seek medical advice, consult a physician, get an individualized prescription.
Get trained. Epinephrine auto-injectors are sold in two-packs for a good reason.
Keep the auto-injector for epinephrine at room temperature (77F) 24/24.
As well, seek emergency help after use.

Jelly fish is a growing problem in the Mediterranean also, as it is in the rest of the world. They say that at least 150,000 people were treated for jellyfish stings around the Mediterranean each summer. Still talking of Mediterranean species of jelly fish, some says that the best protection against stings may be suncream, which prevents the venom released by the tentacles from penetrating the skin, I do not know whether it's useful or not.
 
La Mer said:
Jelly fish is a growing problem in the Mediterranean also, as it is in the rest of the world. They say that at least 150,000 people were treated for jellyfish stings around the Mediterranean each summer. Still talking of Mediterranean species of jelly fish, some says that the best protection against stings may be suncream, which prevents the venom released by the tentacles from penetrating the skin, I do not know whether it's useful or not.
Click to expand...


Could you clarify on this? Are saying jelly fish populations are increasing or more people are coming into contact with jelly fish?
 
La Mer said:
As a physician (medical doctor), I am frightened by the way you posted on this particular topic, Mr Dhays. In a public place you cannot make that kind of statement into which you can just post anything you want. So, judgment was necessary in determining what to put in and what to leave out. This is too important to people here, and risk are too high.

I think it would be prudent to have one on board as part of your medical kit.
You said that without giving the temperature much thought to people here. Are you aware about the importance of keeping epinephrine temperatures regulated at room temperature of 64.4-78.8°F ( 18-26°C) ? Do you know that epipen instructions say to keep epinephrine at an ideal temperature of 77 degrees, also to never leave epinephrine in a car since closed vehicles reach extreme temperatures in the summer and winter which is the same for boat. ? Why didn't you say that althought this was a crucial point ?

If you have a relationship with a physician, they can prescribe it for you.
Yes, but for you and you alone.

Having an Epipen on board can protect you and your family, as well as any guests you have on board.
Are you serious ? How can you make sure epinephrine (EpiPen) is safe for them ? Even if you have an official medical prescription from your health specialist, this does not, however, give you the right to take decisions for your family or guests or anyone else. Not only you may allow people to be in danger or hurt in this particular situation but you put yourself in danger as well to the law relating to the illegal practice of medicine.

There are risks to using an Epipen for certain patients with some types of heart disease or taking certain medications. However, unless you know you have one of those risk factors, I would use it.
How can you know whether your relative or guest is at risk of heart failure, possible cardiac sensitization, or not ? Many individuals are sick without knowing it. I see that in my practice daily.
If you want to run this risk, do so. But do not advise people here of the forum to run a risk which they perhaps cannot afford to take.

Professional help can be found through your family doctor, talk this over with him or her. Only if you get an individualized official medical prescription for yourself alone or others, keep the auto-injector for epinephrine in its carrier tube at all times aboard, at room temperature in a insulated lunch bag, do not refrigerate, protect it from light. Epinephrine can’t have ice directly on it, but wrapping ice and/or the epinephrine in a towel creates the perfect buffer. Then I place the epinephrine and towel into an insulated pouch which I never leave aboard when I am away from the boat.
Take a close look at the auto-injector and its instructions, be sure to ask your doctor a training session during your appointment. Also keep aboard a fully automatic wrist blood pressure cuff monitor with extra batteries which is a modest amount of extra expense for a valuable aid.

I have been a member of the forum for just 19 days after enjoyed it for six years as a guest. I was not here to criticise you neither to fight with anyone then I trust that my post would be deleted by the TF team. But the question as to how far to go in playing the sorcerer's apprentice with the very core of the health of others had, at some point, to be raised.
Click to expand...



La Mer, thank you for your post. Your concerns are completely valid and I appreciate your participation.

There likely is a difference in how Epipens are viewed and handled between France and the US. Even in the US, the laws vary from state to state.

As for the specific concerns you expressed;
- I generally think that TF members are reasonably intelligent and can, and will make their own decisions.
- specific information and training about the use and storage of an epinephrine autoinjector would be given with the prescription.
- Yes, a prescription is given for an individual, not any guest or other family members. However, we are talking about an emergent situation where there may not be EMS services at hand. What supplies one keeps on a boat in a remote location are going to be different than what one keeps on hand in ones home, a few minutes away from EMS services.
- Using a epinephrine on the wrong person, at the wrong time could kill them. However, anaphylaxis can also be fatal. If I am hours away from any type of medical aid and a family member or guest is having an anaphylaxis reaction, with an airway closing and heart rate dropping, I would choose to use an Epipen rather than watch them die. That is my choice but everyone will make their own choice.

Again, I agree with your concerns but not necessarily with your ultimate conclusion.
 
Donsan said:
Could you clarify on this? Are saying jelly fish populations are increasing or more people are coming into contact with jelly fish?
Click to expand...

Yes Sir, jellyfish populations in the Mediterranean is rather extensive. Different factors might have caused a recent increase of jellyfish populations whose higher sea temperatures which benefit jellyfish development and reproduction.

Also through the Suez canal, new jellyfish species have reached and established themselves in the Mediterranean still due to higher sea temperature.

As a result, more people were treated for jellyfish stings around the Mediterranean each summer.
 
dhays said:
La Mer, thank you for your post. Your concerns are completely valid and I appreciate your participation.

There likely is a difference in how Epipens are viewed and handled between France and the US. Even in the US, the laws vary from state to state.

As for the specific concerns you expressed;
- I generally think that TF members are reasonably intelligent and can, and will make their own decisions.
- specific information and training about the use and storage of an epinephrine autoinjector would be given with the prescription.
- Yes, a prescription is given for an individual, not any guest or other family members. However, we are talking about an emergent situation where there may not be EMS services at hand. What supplies one keeps on a boat in a remote location are going to be different than what one keeps on hand in ones home, a few minutes away from EMS services.
- Using a epinephrine on the wrong person, at the wrong time could kill them. However, anaphylaxis can also be fatal. If I am hours away from any type of medical aid and a family member or guest is having an anaphylaxis reaction, with an airway closing and heart rate dropping, I would choose to use an Epipen rather than watch them die. That is my choice but everyone will make their own choice.

Again, I agree with your concerns but not necessarily with your ultimate conclusion.
Click to expand...


In reviewing my post, I recognize unequivocally that my tone was entirely inappropriate also I have gone too far in my last conclusion. There was certainly no justification for it, even if I was very concerned with some of your views.

I wish to sincerely apologize and I thank you for your last post.
 
La Mer said:
In reviewing my post, I recognize unequivocally that my tone was entirely inappropriate also I have gone too far in my last conclusion. There was certainly no justification for it, even if I was very concerned with some of your views.

I wish to sincerely apologize and I thank you for your last post.
Click to expand...



La Mer, no reason to apologize. I did not think that your tone was inappropriate at all. I appreciate your contribution. I’m assuming that English is not your primary language, and yet you expressed yourself clearly and respectfully. :)
 
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