Vape Fume Detector Going Off

We bought a 1978 Marine Trader Trawler last year. Recently our vape fume detector has started going off. The weather has been getting nicer and it seems to go off more often on hotter days, but that might just be a coincidence.

The problem is that we can't find the vape fume detector. Turning off the shore power and flipping the breakers doesn't stop the alarm. Although turning off the batteries does. That means that it must be hardwired into the battery somewhere. Beyond that, we have no idea where it is or how to fix the problem!

The alarm is definitely coming from our engine room and we've tried following all of the wires down there connected to the battery, but we can't find anything that looks like an alarm. The person who owned the boat before us installed it, so we don't know which one we have or where it's located. I guess that means that there's always the possibility that we've seen it and just don't know what it looks like.

Any suggestions? Because we live on the boat and just turning off the battery isn't exactly an option.

Just guessing, the bilge area?

I am not sure what a "vape" fume detector is, maybe some kind of anti smoking thing?

But seriously, there are several kinds of detectors on boats: CO, propane and gasoline fumes. I suspect you are talking about the latter. The location could be anywhere in the engine room down low. You will just have to start at the alarm panel and work your way backwards until you find it.

I don't have any experience with gasoline fume detectors but if they are like propane detectors, they fail quite often and have to be replaced.


But I am a little puzzled. Marine Traders generally come with diesels, and diesels don't need gasoline fume detectors. So could it be a propane detector? If so the detector is in the galley area near the floor.

David

The boat is diesel, so you're probably right it wouldn't be a gasoline detector.

It could be a propane detector. The heat and stove are propane powered. Our insurance doesn't cover propane appliances, though, so they're all disconnected.

We called a mechanic and he told us that it was likely a vape fume detector. He said to look for a control panel to turn off and potentially to look at the flapper...? He wouldn't even come out, he just said that we'd be able to find it and turn it off. We haven't been able to find it.

We can't even find the exact location of the alarm. It seems to resonate from under the stove and behind a wall in the engine room. But who would put an alarm so inaccessible?

We've looked down by the bilge pump, but there isn't anything electronic that low. Everything is higher up in the engine room and none of it looks like any kind of detector. We can locate the batteries, wires that connect to the lights, the plumbing, and the speakers. But we can't find anything that looks like it's connected to an alarm. It would have to be, though, if turning off the batteries also turns off the alarm.

It does seem like whatever the alarm is, it's malfunctioning. We just can't locate exactly where it's coming from. We don't know precisely what we're looking for or how to de-activate it or repair it when we do find it.

Greetings,
Welcome aboard. As suggested, it will take some detective work. What better way to become more familiar with your new vessel...I would also suggest you look for an insurer who will cover propane. Can't live in the PNW hungry and without heat or so I'm told.

Overcharging batteries can cause severe Hydrogen gassing which can trigger vapor detectors as well as CO2 detectors.

RT Firefly said:

Greetings,
Welcome aboard. As suggested, it will take some detective work. What better way to become more familiar with your new vessel...I would also suggest you look for an insurer who will cover propane. Can't live in the PNW hungry and without heat or so I'm told.

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It gives us an excuse to BBQ more often

I'm about to just take pictures of every control panel and ask if any of them look like they're connected to an alarm. It's that or wait for it to go off and strategically disconnect every wire one by one. Although that seems a little daunting.

Dont rule out that the fume detector is faulty

High Wire said:

Overcharging batteries can cause severe Hydrogen gassing which can trigger vapor detectors as well as CO2 detectors.

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If that was the case, wouldn't the alarm go off constantly, instead of just periodically? And wouldn't we have battery failure as well?

Although, if that is the problem, what would you suggest? We're connected to shore power, so we can turn off the battery. The only things that don't work on shore power are the water and the overhead lights. It's possible to turn them off periodically, but not necessarily something that we're going to be able to do all of the time.

First action I would take if I couldn't find any sign of smell using my nose would be relocate the detector to outside the hull and see if it sets off the alarm

It is required OEM hard wires these detecters to the house batteries.
Considering it is not original equipment and not a self contained battery operated unit, the previous could have wired it into any convenient circuit.
Have you pulled the stove and oven to see if it is located behind?

One of the first thing I did, after I bought this boat, was to replace the hardwired detecter. I have forgotten the required frequency for replacement.

OldDan1943 said:

It is required OEM hard wires these detecters to the house batteries.
Considering it is not original equipment and not a self contained battery operated unit, the previous could have wired it into any convenient circuit.
Have you pulled the stove and oven to see if it is located behind?

One of the first thing I did, after I bought this boat, was to replace the hardwired detecter. I have forgotten the required frequency for replacement.

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We have not done that. The alarm does sometimes sound as if it's coming from the stove or behind the stove, though. The propane isn't connected and we've disconnected all of the wires that we can see in and around the stove. But that is a good idea. It's screwed into our counter tops, so we haven't tried taking it out completely, but that is a possibility!

Lifeisawave said:

We have not done that. The alarm does sometimes sound as if it's coming from the stove or behind the stove, though. The propane isn't connected and we've disconnected all of the wires that we can see in and around the stove. But that is a good idea. It's screwed into our counter tops, so we haven't tried taking it out completely, but that is a possibility!

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First, check the adjacent cabinets for the detecter or unknown wiring.

A decibel meter might help you locate the alarm.

Greetings,
Mr. Law. Mr. HW raises a very valid point regarding batteries and out gassing.


In response to your questions (post #9)...The batteries may only be out gassing periodically and not be at the point of failure yet.



In any case, the primary problem is still the location of the alarm. When you find that it should be straightforward to trace the wiring to the detector. I also agree with the "detective" comments above.

Search online to find photos of CO, propane and other fume detectors so at least you know what you’re looking for.
Just a thought. Are you sure it’s a vapor detector and not a bilge pump alarm or other alarm you’re hearing.

I doubt if it is a propane detector if the sound is coming from down low. Propane detectors have a control panel, alarm and on off switch that are located either near the main DC panel or near the stove but at eye level within easy reach. The actual detector is located on or near the cabin sole usually below the propane stove. So if the sound is coming from below then it is almost certainly not a propane detector.

It only goes off if you disconnect the battery and not the main DC breaker, right. I would look at the battery or the battery switch and you will find a heavy cable feeding the starter, another 6 gauge or so wire feeding the main DC breaker and 2-3 smaller 14-12 gauge wires feeding things powered directly from the battery like the bilge pumps and critical alarms like CO and propane.

When the alarm sounds, disconnect each of these smaller wires one by one until it goes off. Then follow the wire and see where it goes.

David

I’d be worried of just assuming it’s faulty, thus disconnecting it.

Doug said:

Just a thought. Are you sure it’s a vapor detector and not a bilge pump alarm or other alarm you’re hearing.

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I wonder this one as well- bilge alarm

Gmarr said:

I wonder this one as well- bilge alarm

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We are all thinking it is a Vapor detecter based upon Lifeisawave comment.

Because there is no gas onboard, other things.
How often does this alarm?

Seldom is there alarm associated with the bilge pump starting and stopping. Usually it is a high water alarm and not all boats have a high water alarm.
Worth checking the bilges for water.
Things that might contribute to water in the bilges include A/C condensates drains, if they do not drain overboard directly.

My AT did not come with high water alarm. I installed one in each compartment (4) plus a bilge pump counter at the helm station.
The high water alarm is a 4 inch bell that will wake the dead.

OldDan1943 said:

We are all thinking it is a Vapor detecter based upon Lifeisawave comment.

Because there is no gas onboard, other things.
How often does this alarm?

Seldom is there alarm associated with the bilge pump starting and stopping. Usually it is a high water alarm and not all boats have a high water alarm.
Worth checking the bilges for water.
Things that might contribute to water in the bilges include A/C condensates drains, if they do not drain overboard directly.

My AT did not come with high water alarm. I installed one in each compartment (4) plus a bilge pump counter at the helm station.
The high water alarm is a 4 inch bell that will wake the dead.

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There is no propane on board and the boat is diesel, so it wouldn't be a gasoline detector.

The alarm seems to only go off when it's hot out. When the temperature is in the 80s or 90s. Sometimes it starts and then stops by the time we get down into the engine room and try to figure it out. Other times it goes off and keeps going off until we disconnect the batteries.

There's no high water and the bilge pump appears to be working fine. There's actually less water than there usually is.

The biggest problem is that we can't figure out where the alarm is coming from. It sounds like it's coming from under the stove, but we already thought that that might be a problem and disconnected all the wires to the stove. And, since we can't find the location of the alarm, we can't trace it back to the source. So, we don't know exactly what the alarm is for, where it is, or how to fix it. It just vaguely sounds like it's coming from under the stove and is incredibly obnoxious. It used to go off every once in a while, but lately it's been going off every day. Sometimes several times a day.

Greetings,
Mr. L. I'm getting a very slight sense of frustration here.





I can empathize. Get yourself a stethoscope and listen under, over, and all around where you think the source is. Inside and outside the saloon/galley as well. You may be able to triangulate the location.

Have you taken drawers out and emptied cupboards to either find the alarm or narrow down your aural clues?

Is there any sort of ducting in the area that might be telegraphing the alarm from a remote location to where you suspect it is (under the stove). Under the stove stove strongly suggest somewhere along the overhead in the ER.

RT Firefly said:

Greetings,
Mr. L. I'm getting a very slight sense of frustration here.

I can empathize. Get yourself a stethoscope and listen under, over, and all around where you think the source is. Inside and outside the saloon/galley as well. You may be able to triangulate the location.

Have you taken drawers out and emptied cupboards to either find the alarm or narrow down your aural clues?

Is there any sort of ducting in the area that might be telegraphing the alarm from a remote location to where you suspect it is (under the stove). Under the stove stove strongly suggest somewhere along the overhead in the ER.

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Haha yes. Sorry, it was amusing a month ago, it's not quite so fun now

There are no alarms in the galley and it sounds like it's coming from the engine room. I took some pictures last time it went off. Maybe someone can see something that we're not...?

I've got the non-working stove, under the stove, around to the batteries, and in the cabinet next to the stove. Although, all of the wires in the cabinet next to the stove appear to go into the wall connected to the bathroom, not into the stove.

Alarm from the water softener? Low on salt?

I do see a lot of wires that need to be secured with wire ties.
Dont hang anything from the wires. It can put a strain on connections.

OldDan1943 said:

Alarm from the water softener? Low on salt?

I do see a lot of wires that need to be secured with wire ties.
Dont hang anything from the wires. It can put a strain on connections.

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You're completely right! It was the water softener! We kept looking at the electrical and hitting a dead end. We never even thought to look at the water system. Thank you so much!!

The previous owner did all of the wiring and didn't document anything. Half of the wires don't even connect to anything. It's a mess. We've been dealing with the electrical on the galley, but haven't had the time to do the engine room yet. You can see why.

Greetings,
Mr. L. Heartiest congratulations and a big "Atta Boy" for Mr OD. Water softener? Holy cow! THAT would have been my last guess...Correction I NEVER would have thought of that. Who in the heck puts a water softener on a boat?





Ya, I know someone with hard water but still...

Lifeisawave said:

You're completely right! It was the water softener! We kept looking at the electrical and hitting a dead end. We never even thought to look at the water system. Thank you so much!!

The previous owner did all of the wiring and didn't document anything. Half of the wires don't even connect to anything. It's a mess. We've been dealing with the electrical on the galley, but haven't had the time to do the engine room yet. You can see why.

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If it hadn't been the bag of water softener salt in the picture, I would have never thought or suggested it.
Even a blind pig finds an acorn every now and then.
WHY a water softener on your boat? I have not heard or seen such.

Battery needs to be secured and covered. Your PO was a real sloppy DIY guy.

When the wife says, she wants a water softener,..... That's how you get a water softener. LOL

You can thank the PO for keeping you busy for the foreseeable future.