Best Snubber for a Krogen 54 w/ Rocna 55kg and 3/8 chain

Hi,
It seems like. There are lots of opinions on proper snubbers, what would you all recommend for my boat?

Krogen 54 (just under 100k lbs)
Rocna 55kg
3/8 BBB chain

Thanks
Arthur

There are several options.

I like low-tech and simple. I use two methods depending on the moood. One is a a line with a rolling hitch on the chain. The rolling hitch is easy to put one, easy to take off, and won’t fall off.

The 2nd method is I use a dyneema loop wrapped around the chain and soft shackle to attach the bridle or snubber to the dyneema loop.

How much thought do you put into the size and type of line you use?

I have a chain plate that takes 2 lines and holds a link in the slot of the plate. Switched over a year ago to a stainless steel chain hook like you would see on rigging chain. Defender has these very good quality hooks that don't rust.

For my boat, a single 3/4" twisted nylon line works in the toughest blows. Your boat is decidedly bigger and may require 1" line. Run mine next to the chain over the bow roller. If you have a good loop of chain hanging down between the hook and the bow roller, the chain Will always stay on the hook.

https://www.defender.com/product.jsp?path=-1&id=3466475

Ted

Thanks! Would you recommend over the roller or two lines/ends that split sides and through the dock line holes to the cleats?

Arthurc said:

How much thought do you put into the size and type of line you use?

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I put a fair amount of thought. My boat is not as large as yours. I decided to use 1/2” three strand nylon for the bridle I felt that would give me enough stretch and strength. I used 3/16” dyneema shackles which have a stronger breaking strength than the three strand.

For the rolling hitch, I used a section of 5/8” double braid with a spliced eye. I used a shackle to attach that that to the two legs of the bridle. The other end of the 5/8” is just tied to the chain.

Even though the 1/2” has been plenty strong, I have considered up-sizing to 5/8” 3-strand for the bridle. If I do, would also upsize the soft shackle to 5/16” which would double the strength of the shackle.

Again, your boat is much bigger so I’d go larger than 5/8” on the snubber.

If you are going to do much anchoring your no doubt going to encounter some bad weather. What works in less than 35 knots won’t when Mother Nature changes the game. FWIW 50 knots is right at the working load limit for 3/8ths bbb on a 54’ boat so your going to want to plan accordingly. Three strand nylon is nice and stretchy but due to the unbalance in the lay tends to hockle and develop internal friction when stretched over 20% of its max breaking strength. You could make up a couple of 5/8ths brait snubbers with eye splices on the ends and throw a second or third on for when everything goes pear shaped a 0200.

Arthurc said:

Thanks! Would you recommend over the roller or two lines/ends that split sides and through the dock line holes to the cleats?

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It will be less noisy while sleeping if you use a V snubber and attach through the hawse holes and cleats. I also like simple. For your boat I would suggest two lengths of 1/2" nylon about 15' long each. Splice one of the ends to an eye and then shackle to a 3/8" chain hook.


You want the line to be small enough to stretch when necessary but not small enough to break.


Attach the chain hook and let out about 10' of line out on each side of the V. The deploy enough chain for the snubber to be taking the load and let the chain drop down to form a loop in between the two snubber lines.


David

AC
Cafesport suggests 3/8 BB is to light for your vessel, I agree. The Krogen owner’s website would be my suggestion for all things rode, snubber and anchor related.

I use this:

https://www.mantusmarine.com/mantus-bridle/

IMHO bridles are fine for quieting the chain, but not so much in providing snubbing action, which needs to take place over a longer distance, with 30' or so generally recommended. A length of octoplait with a breaking strength equal to the chain, secured with Dyneema soft shackles at either end, with an overhang of chain equal to the 20% stretch of the line (safe working stretch) so the chain takes up the load only after the snub line has stretched is a good "big blow" snubber. You can use a lighter snub line for less exciting anchoring.

A properly configured snubber significantly diminishes the total force of wind and wave on an anchored vessel, with the length, diameter and construction of the snub line determining how much force will be diminished before the chain takes the load.

On the chain size I also agree unfortunately I wasn’t able to get a new wildcat for the ideal Windlass that would take 1/2”. That said she is at a boat yard right now getting fitted for a second Windlass that will support 1/2 which will become my primary while the 3/8s moves to my backup groundtackle.

Delfin,
So with the 30ft the Snubber would extend to the water or below?

Delfin said:

IMHO bridles are fine for quieting the chain, but not so much in providing snubbing action, which needs to take place over a longer distance, with 30' or so generally recommended. A length of octoplait with a breaking strength equal to the chain, secured with Dyneema soft shackles at either end, with an overhang of chain equal to the 20% stretch of the line (safe working stretch) so the chain takes up the load only after the snub line has stretched is a good "big blow" snubber. You can use a lighter snub line for less exciting anchoring.

A properly configured snubber significantly diminishes the total force of wind and wave on an anchored vessel, with the length, diameter and construction of the snub line determining how much force will be diminished before the chain takes the load.

Click to expand...

The Mantus bridle I linked to has 3 sizes, with lengths between 28 to 34 feet (along with varying rope diameter).

Arthurc said:

Delfin,
So with the 30ft the Snubber would extend to the water or below?

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Below, with the bight of chain hanging below the line. We run out the chain to the desired scope, run the snub line over the top roller (chain is on the lower roller), attach the snub line to the chain with a soft shackle, free wheel the windlass until the snub line runs out completely taut, cinch the windlass and run out 6' of chain and secure the pawl. On the deck side, the snub line is attached with Dyneema to a strong point. 1000# of shock load on the snub line becomes around 150# by the time the line stretches to engage the chain (which has never happened AFAIK), so there is virtually no shock loading on the system. Delfin weighs 65 tons and that's a lot of dude boat to come up short on a non snubbed chain.

MichaelB1969 said:

The Mantus bridle I linked to has 3 sizes, with lengths between 28 to 34 feet (along with varying rope diameter).

Click to expand...

You might consider changing out the chain hook for a soft shackle, since the Mantus hook is around 1/3 the strength of the rest of the gear it is attached to. A soft shackle would be the strongest link in the system. I'd also point out that it is unlikely that the full length of the bridle would come into play under load, given veer, so perhaps the effective length is closer to 15 feet.

Don't get me wrong - this is a fine solution for 99% of anchoring, but perhaps not optimum for some conditions.

I don't know anything about best but this is my set up on Klee Wyck.
The tails from the chain grabber to the loops are each 30 feet and are secured to the bollards (6 foot aft of bow both port and starboard) in the background of photo after attachment to the chain. The chain travels thru deck hause pipe and is coupled to 145# Forfjord (#12)on a 55K#, 48' boat. So far, so good, but never really been put to a serious test while in my hands.
It can be a bit testy getting the grabber coupled to the chain while hanging off the bow in any kind of seas......

Delfin said:

IMHO bridles are fine for quieting the chain, but not so much in providing snubbing action, which needs to take place over a longer distance, with 30' or so generally recommended. A length of octoplait with a breaking strength equal to the chain, secured with Dyneema soft shackles at either end, with an overhang of chain equal to the 20% stretch of the line (safe working stretch) so the chain takes up the load only after the snub line has stretched is a good "big blow" snubber. You can use a lighter snub line for less exciting anchoring.

A properly configured snubber significantly diminishes the total force of wind and wave on an anchored vessel, with the length, diameter and construction of the snub line determining how much force will be diminished before the chain takes the load.

Click to expand...

A bridle can be made with any length of line you like. I use a bridle made up of 2 x 25’ lengths of 1/2” 3-strand. A bridle with a combined length of 50’ is not the same as a snubber of 50’. I seem to recall a Practical Sailor article a couple years ago that indicated that the equivalent snubber is about 70% of the total line length of a bridle. So my bridle would be roughly the equivalent of a 35’ 1/2” snubber.

Your point is a good one though and while I think my bridle is more than adequate for my needs, there could be situations where I would want a longer bridle with potentially heavier line. Alternatively, I could just add a length of 5/8” 3-strand from the bridle to the chain creating a Y. 25’ would give me the equivalent of a 60’ snubber. I also think that brait would be a nicer choice than my 3-strand, but I’m really cheap. I can get 3-strand pretty inexpensively but not so with brait.

Tried a bridle through hawsepipes in side of bulwarks and back to Sampson post, wasn't impressed.

Now use a single 5m length of 3/4 3 strand nylon from Sampson post through spare roller and onto a victory hook.
Works fine but does twist on occasion.
I would be interested to see how a slightly smaller platted rope would go for more stretch but I can't do splices on 8 plait......yet.

dhays said:

There are several options.

I like low-tech and simple. I use two methods depending on the moood. One is a a line with a rolling hitch on the chain. The rolling hitch is easy to put one, easy to take off, and won’t fall off.

The 2nd method is I use a dyneema loop wrapped around the chain and soft shackle to attach the bridle or snubber to the dyneema loop.
View attachment 77238View attachment 77239

Click to expand...

Dave, any reason why you could just pass a snubber line (just a plain line) through the other end of the dyneema loop, then attach to the bow cleats? Eliminate the eye?

I used to use the bridal with 1/2" nylon lines though the house pipes. As the boat swung, you could hear the line loading (stretching) and unloading as it squeaked going through the abuse pipes. Then the lines would periodically rub on the hanging chain. Noisy for a forward master stateroom boat. Prefer the single line over the bow roller. With 50' of snubber line and 350' of chain, it's quite easy to adjust the snubber length if conditions deteriorate. The other nice thing about 3/4" quality 3 strand, it's inexpensive and you have to justify replacing it after a monster blow.

Ted

O C Diver said:

I used to use the bridal with 1/2" nylon lines though the house pipes. As the boat swung, you could hear the line loading (stretching) and unloading as it squeaked going through the abuse pipes. Then the lines would periodically rub on the hanging chain. Noisy for a forward master stateroom boat. Prefer the single line over the bow roller. With 50' of snubber line and 350' of chain, it's quite easy to adjust the snubber length if conditions deteriorate. The other nice thing about 3/4" quality 3 strand, it's inexpensive and you have to justify replacing it after a monster blow.

Ted

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I like this idea a lot, seems so much more simple than fussing with two lines. Unfortunately my boat doesn't have a samson post or cleat on top of the winch. But it does have a lot of beefy hardware there. I will ask some guys if that is close in strength to the forward cleats.

dhays said:

There are several options.

I like low-tech and simple. I use two methods depending on the moood. One is a a line with a rolling hitch on the chain. The rolling hitch is easy to put one, easy to take off, and won’t fall off.

The 2nd method is I use a dyneema loop wrapped around the chain and soft shackle to attach the bridle or snubber to the dyneema loop.
View attachment 77238View attachment 77239

Click to expand...

For attachment I use a similar soft shackle, but thread it through one of the chain links, thereby eliminating the choker around the chain.

twistedtree said:

For attachment I use a similar soft shackle, but thread it through one of the chain links, thereby eliminating the choker around the chain.

Click to expand...

What's the rating on a soft shackle you use for Tanglewood size yacht?

dhays said:

A bridle can be made with any length of line you like. I use a bridle made up of 2 x 25’ lengths of 1/2” 3-strand. A bridle with a combined length of 50’ is not the same as a snubber of 50’. I seem to recall a Practical Sailor article a couple years ago that indicated that the equivalent snubber is about 70% of the total line length of a bridle. So my bridle would be roughly the equivalent of a 35’ 1/2” snubber.

Your point is a good one though and while I think my bridle is more than adequate for my needs, there could be situations where I would want a longer bridle with potentially heavier line. Alternatively, I could just add a length of 5/8” 3-strand from the bridle to the chain creating a Y. 25’ would give me the equivalent of a 60’ snubber. I also think that brait would be a nicer choice than my 3-strand, but I’m really cheap. I can get 3-strand pretty inexpensively but not so with brait.

Click to expand...

I haven't seen many long bridles, so your approach sounds good to me. The two other reasons I prefer a single line of the bow is reduced chafe and a reduction in the tendency of a vessel on a bridle to sail at anchor a bit more. I guess this happens as the boat cocks to the pull on whichever side of the bridle is currently taut.

JustBob said:

Dave, any reason why you could just pass a snubber line (just a plain line) through the other end of the dyneema loop, then attach to the bow cleats? Eliminate the eye?

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That would work. I used the thimble to reduce chaffing. What I really have are two thimbles that are attached to the dyneema loop with a shift shackle.

I have both continuous loops of dyneema as well as a dog-bone which is a piece of dyneema with spliced loops on either end. With the loop I do a larks head around the chain but wrap it twice. With the dog bone it is similar I feed the end through the opposite eye around the chain and wrap it twice. I've added some nylon webbing for chaffe protection.

The photo is it wrapped around the chain. Ignore the line next to it as it is simply holding my anchor tight to release tension on the windlass.

O C Diver said:

I used to use the bridal with 1/2" nylon lines though the house pipes. As the boat swung, you could hear the line loading (stretching) and unloading as it squeaked going through the abuse pipes. Then the lines would periodically rub on the hanging chain. Noisy for a forward master stateroom boat. Prefer the single line over the bow roller. With 50' of snubber line and 350' of chain, it's quite easy to adjust the snubber length if conditions deteriorate. The other nice thing about 3/4" quality 3 strand, it's inexpensive and you have to justify replacing it after a monster blow.

Ted

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Good points Ted. I find the bridle reduces sailing at anchor on my boat. My hawse pipes also are a lot beefier than the cleat next to the windlass so in my case that are more secure.

When you are searching for soft shackles on Amazon. Hmmm.....

JustBob said:

When you are searching for soft shackles on Amazon. Hmmm.....

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Yeah, there is a reason I make my own. I can custom fit them for any purpose. [emoji6]

JustBob said:

When you are searching for soft shackles on Amazon. Hmmm.....

Click to expand...

They are very easy to make....