New Build - 24m aluminum passagemaker

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ChristineKling

Veteran Member
Joined
Aug 10, 2016
Messages
94
Location
Turkey
Vessel Name
Möbius
Vessel Make
XPM 78-01
I posted here on this forum on August 11, 2016 in a post titled Switching from Sail Cruising to Power Passagemaker, and I asked if anyone knew of boatyards, preferably in Turkey, where they did good aluminum work.

By coincidence, a Turkish boatbuilder happened to read that post several weeks later at the same time my husband was in Antalya meeting with builders in the Free Zone. Baris Dinc of Naval Yachts emailed me, I put him in touch with Wayne, and now, some 20 months later, we have just started to build our boat with the builder we found thanks to the Trawler Forum.

We have moved to Turkey where we expect to live for the next several years. We are also blogging about the build of this new boat, and if you are interested in following along, the blog is at http://mobius.world. Slowly, we will be adding posts to fill in the history of how and why we decided to build our own long, slender, and efficient powerboat, and about some of the unique decisions we made along the way, such as choosing a single engine, and a unique one at that. Hint: it's a Gardner.

Wayne and I hope to get to know folks here better through your comments.

Wayne and Christine
M/V Möbius
 
Cool and I hope it all goes well.
Gardner's are a great engine but not common.
I guess you have thought of parts and service in remote locations away from your Gardner guy?

Don't get me wrong, I like them, i wanted one,our sister ship has one in her as do most boats i lust for but I have since been convinced that something more common with easy part availability was better for the cruiser planning on being farther afield.
 
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Gardner is Goldilocks for us

Cool and I hope it all goes well.
Gardner's are a great engine but not common.
I guess you have thought of parts and service in remote locations away from your Gardner guy?

Don't get me wrong, I like them, i wanted one,our sister ship has one in her as do most boats i lust for but I have since been convinced that something more common with easy part availability was better for the cruiser planning on being farther afield.

Ahoy Simi! Thanks for the good wishes, I'm sure we will need them!

We had similar concerns as you about parts availability if we went with a Gardner but came to be completely confident this would not be a problem and that a Gardner 6LXB would be the just right engine for our new boat Möbius. As you likely know while whole new Gardner engines have not been made new since 1995, the Gardner company continues as Gardner Marine Diesel in Canterbury Kent England, and they make or stock pretty much every part there is for most Gardners.

We have gotten to know Michael Harrison who has taken over the business from his father who in turn worked most of his life for the original Gardner and Sons company. Michael was able to find us a lovely 6LXB out of tug in the Thames that was repowering with an 8LXB and I have gotten to know Michael and his staff very well on my several visits there and working with him for the restoration I am now doing.

About the only parts which are not currently being made new are things like the large castings of crankcase and cylinder blocks, heads and the crankshaft and they buy engines all the time to add to their considerable stock of used Gardners of all sizes and vintage so even these parts are available. Otherwise everything from pistons, rings, manifolds, pumps, gaskets, valves, etc. are all being made new. Michael and his father cleverly bought up all the inventory and much of the machinery from the original Gardner factory and have also outsourced some manufacturing of Gardner originals to other companies so they are able to provide pretty much anything we might need.

I am in the process of doing a complete restoration of our 6LXB to "as new" condition with new cylinder liners, pistons, rings, bearings, etc. and Michael was able to provide this and ship them to me promptly. Having spent some time with Michael on several visits to his facility I can not say enough good things about him and the company.

Our launch date is likely about 2 years away as we are just beginning construction of the hull now, and before we set sail I will order pretty much a full rebuild set of parts from Michael to have onboard just in case we should ever need any of them. As Christine often tells others she has come to be quite fine living on a floating parts department. :)

We are very much of the "belts and suspenders" crowd as we spend most of our time anchored alone in the most remote bays we can find around the world and far from the availability of parts and services of any kind. So in addition to spares of most every system on the boat, I also have a well equipped workshop that has a reasonable degree of machining and welding capability which enables me to come up with a fix for pretty much any situation that comes along and we have been able to get ourselves out of some challenging situation over the years in our previous boats. The fact that almost every single part on a Gardner was hand built within their factory was a big part of the appeal of the Gardner to me as it means if I don’t have a part I can likely make one.

Two other factors initially drove us to look for alternatives to modern diesels. One is the growing requirement for DEF (Diesel Exhaust Fluid) and given our scenario of mostly being in extremely remote parts of the world, we would be hard pressed to find DEF most of the time and would also need additional tanks to store the DEF. DEF is injected at about a 50:1 ratio which doesn’t sound like much but we carry 14k liters of diesel so we would need to have 280 liters of DEF onboard as well. And DEF has a shorter shelf life, less than a year, so we would need to find new supplies more frequently than we likely fuel up. The other and even more troubling factor was that several of the black box components of modern Tier III and IV engines including the main ECU (Engine Control Unit) are not possible to buy and carry on board. In our discussions with the folks at John Deer, CAT and Cummins they explained that due to current laws the only way they are able to provide us with a replacement ECU or several other such electronic engine boxes, is for us to ship them the failed part and then they take the log of information from this old part, program that into the new part and ship it to us. All very possible for those cruising close to major population centers but completely untenable for us. And furthermore there are very limited workarounds when one of these parts or sensors fail while we are at sea to keep the engine running even though it is quite capable of doing so. Hence began our search for alternative engines which led us to Gardner.

Even were it not for these requirements of modern diesels, I think we would still go to sea with a Gardner. One is reliability of such a simple and seriously under stressed engine. I don’t know what the exact difference is of the count of total moving parts between our Gardner and the JD6068 we would have gone with, but I’d guess it might be as much as 50% less. Our 6LXB is naturally aspirated (no turbo), no electronics whatsoever, the only electrical components at all are the 24v starter and alternator and every system is so rock solid and simple compared to modern engines we think we will have much higher reliability which is critical to our well being. The second key factor for us in engine efficiency. In my research I have come to understand that still to this day these later year Gardners like the LXB’s have amongst the highest thermal efficiency of any mass produced diesel engine. Some of the really gigantic engines producing thousands of HP can achieve a bit more but our Gardner 6LXB runs just a hair over 40% thermal efficiency and I’ve got the actual dyno test paper from Gardner to prove it! 

My personal sense is that in the valiant and wise efforts to reduce emissions, which I applaud and appreciate, we have lost sight of the forest for the trees. The focus seems to be more on reducing emissions than on improving fuel efficiency for example and I read conflicting reports on whether these tiers are producing less emissions but also less efficiency.

Don’t get me wrong these modern diesel engines are marvels of engineering and they are producing tremendous numbers in things like HP to weight ratios. However for our use case we can handle the weight and it is torque that we really want and I will gladly give up higher HP numbers for higher torque. The 6LXB produces about 740nm of torque which will drive our 1m diameter CPP prop very efficiently I think. In any case we will happily take the 40% thermal fuel sipping efficiency of our Gardner chugging away quite effortlessly for years to come.

Your question was timely as well because Mr. G as we call him, just arrived here yesterday and I’ll soon have a post up on our Möbius blog at http://mobius.world if you’d like to check that out.

Well, WAY more than you wanted and I’m sure you are now sorry you asked, though I thank you for doing so.

Wayne
 
Whodgins

Sounds like a fun project. Three questions. Have you followed Dashew's builds? Secondly, does the Gardner meet EU emissions compliance regs? Paint the hull or natural Al finish?
 
Yea, be careful about EU emissions regs. As I understand it, they can deny you porting a new hull with a non-compliant engine.

Read somewhere a guy somewhere in the Mideast that was planning to take a boat to Italy, found out they would not let him in with his old engines.

Don't know all the details here...
 
Whodgins

Sounds like a fun project. Three questions. Have you followed Dashew's builds? Secondly, does the Gardner meet EU emissions compliance regs? Paint the hull or natural Al finish?

Hi Sunchaser. Yes we've been having tons of fun throughout this whole process. Lots of challenges and work to be sure but lots of fun and that is a big driver for us doing this; we like it. As quickly as I can with your 3 thoughtful questions:
1. Yes we are very familiar with Steve & Linda Dashew from way back in their and our sailing days and have closely followed their adventurous journey from sail to power. I was fortunate enough to be in Whangarei hiding out of the cyclone season of 2009/10 and was there for the launch of FPB-1 and several visits to Circa afterwards. Circa was also kind enough to welcome Christine and I for an extended visit when we were there again in 2016 and spent an afternoon going all through the 78's and 70 being built then. And we've had the great pleasure of being aboard several FPB-64's we were sharing anchorages. You can also read Christine's account of her meeting with Steve when he first arrived in Fiji on Cochise and we were finishing up the renovation of our boat at Vuda Pt. So yes, the whole Dashew/SetSail/Circa team have been fabulous teachers and inspirations for us.

2. The Gardner does not meet current emissions however we will not be EU registered and so not a problem for us to travel throughout the EU as we have on many non EU flagged boats.

3. We live by the 2 hands rule: if our two hands don't do it, it doesn't get done. So we are very much focused on designing and building the boat for minimal required maintenance and therefore on the exterior; no paint other than anti foul of course, no SS, no wood.

Hope that helps and thanks for your interest.

Wayne
 
We have checked into this and have some past experience and the EU regulations similar to most other countries are that visiting non EU boats are not required to meet any EU requirements. When this would become an issue would be for importing a boat into the EU. As we read and understand it, boats less than 5 years old being imported into the EU are required to meet EU requirements of the year of their manufacture. Boats older than 5 years are exempt. In any case we will not be EU registered and have no plans on ever importing our boat into the EU so we should be good.

Thanks for asking and hope this helps.

Wayne
 
Thanks for the reply
The other and even more troubling factor was that several of the black box components of modern Tier III and IV engines including the main ECU (Engine Control Unit) ...............

Totally with you there and wouldn't go a modern diesel myself either.
Having a turbo on our relatively new (about 5000 hour) 1976 design Cummins nta855m was bad enough for us but tis what she had so little say in it.

DEF is a new one to me and I am googling what it is now.(nothing for me to worry about says google)

Have fun with the build
 
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DEF is Diesel Exhaust Fluid and is used to meet Tier 4 diesel emission requirements. The US EPA was going to require Tier 4 engines used in trawler style boats but backed off the requirement the last time I read the EPA regulations.

Gardner is a danged good engine. I saw two sitting on crates in China that were going to be installed in a work boat/ship. They are simple, reliable, fuel efficient and robust engines.

The last time I read the US EPA regulations, new boats that will be US flagged have to use Tier III engines unless they are home built. Home builders can use whatever engine they want.

I have read of people having to show that their boat met emission requirements to travel on some German rivers.

Later,
Dan
 
I am so intrigued by the boat design. I am in New Zealand and have seen a few of these boats around - especially during my recent trip to Whangerei.

I look forward to following your journey.
 
I am so intrigued by the boat design. I am in New Zealand and have seen a few of these boats around - especially during my recent trip to Whangerei.

I look forward to following your journey.

Hi Sleaper. Yes you Kiwi's certainly do appreciate metal boats as do we and we had a great time when we were there last in 2015/16 and enjoyed seeing so many great metal boats. No surprise then that to the best of my knowledge the vast majority of these new style long, low, skinny, fast passagemakers or whatever they will eventually be called, are being made in NZ. The FPB and LRC series would make up the bulk of the still relatively small numbers of such boats and we certainly benefited from all our time in NZ getting hands on with all of the above. No coincidence then that we also ended up choosing Dennis Harjamaa of Artnautica Yachts in Auckland as our designer as he is the brains behind the LRC series.

Thanks for following along with us over on the Mobius.World blog and look forward to your future comments and questions.

Wayne
 
Thanks for the reply


Totally with you there and wouldn't go a modern diesel myself either.
Having a turbo on our relatively new (about 5000 hour) 1976 design Cummins nta855m was bad enough for us but tis what she had so little say in it.

DEF is a new one to me and I am googling what it is now.(nothing for me to worry about says google)

Have fun with the build
We had a 6cyl Cummins in our previous boat that was turbocharged and ran like a charm. I didn't mean to knock turbos, they certainly help squeeze out more thermal efficiency but they are also more moving parts and those turbines really do move! Turbos today are pretty bullet proof having been so long used and evolved but they also put additional stress and strain on the engine and so we are quite happy to forego a few HPs or Watts for less moving parts, a much less stressed engine and still fantastic thermal efficiency.

Proof is always in the pudding though so we'll have to wait a good bit longer till we have real world experience and data to discuss. Thanks for following along the way.

Wayne
 
Looking forward to following this one
 
Wayne, can you comment on the long-term upkeep of an aluminum hull? I have been intrigued by some of the older aluminum yachts but potential hull corrosion scares me. How does one deal with corrosion/electrolysis? There is the old wife tale of a copper penny eating through the hull etc. Would love to hear from someone with first hand experience.
 
The last time I read the US EPA regulations, new boats that will be US flagged have to use Tier III engines unless they are home built. Home builders can use whatever engine they want.

Dan-

I had conversations with an EPA attorney a year or two ago about the same subject. As I recall, a homebuilt boat is exempt from installing a compliant engine, but not from IMPORTING a compliant engine.

Perhaps I don't recall the conversation correctly, but you may want to confirm that with the EPA if you plan on documenting in America. Let us know what you find out.
 
Dan-

I had conversations with an EPA attorney a year or two ago about the same subject. As I recall, a homebuilt boat is exempt from installing a compliant engine, but not from IMPORTING a compliant engine.

Perhaps I don't recall the conversation correctly, but you may want to confirm that with the EPA if you plan on documenting in America. Let us know what you find out.

That is an important point and I would think one could no longer import a non compliant engine in the US.

Flip side is that there are mechanical engines in the US that one could use if one could not find a Gardner in the US. In any case, I might be insane enough to want a boat but I don't think I am so totally insane to try to build my own boat in the back yard. :rofl:

Later,
Dan
 
Wayne, can you comment on the long-term upkeep of an aluminum hull? I have been intrigued by some of the older aluminum yachts but potential hull corrosion scares me. How does one deal with corrosion/electrolysis? There is the old wife tale of a copper penny eating through the hull etc. Would love to hear from someone with first hand experience.

I would also like to hear your thoughts on this aspect. In my marina a lady with a catamaran moved away because her aluminium props were being eaten away. Some marina's can be quite 'hot' electrically, and be a huge issue for short zinc anode life, and aluminium hull corrosion.

I believe the Dashew's minimise their time in marina's, unless hard stand, and this is one of the reasons. Marina's don't cater very well for long skinny boats anyway - few berths available, and expensive.
 
There are hundreds if not thousands of vessels in the PNW that are Al construction. I've relatives with very large Al vessels, who successfully dock them on both US coasts. Yes they do need some awareness as to avoiding issues. But Al galvanic concerns are easily manageable (as is steel).

Then add to it the many steel hulls with Al topsides. The oldest Al vessel I have personally been on was an approximate 70' DeFever made in the 70s, no reported issues.

Hewes Craft or similar AL offshore fishing 25 - 30 feet vessel anyone? They are like popcorn where we cruise.

As mentioned earlier, a trip to Circa in NZ (I've done it) is a real eye opener regarding Al construction. Or Coastal Craft or King Fisher in BC. So many others to talk with for the truly interested. My favorite though is Wrangell AK where guys build Al fishing boats in their back yards. The finished products can be stunning.
 
Flip side is that there are mechanical engines in the US that one could use if one could not find a Gardner in the US. In any case, I might be insane enough to want a boat but I don't think I am so totally insane to try to build my own boat in the back yard.

Nothing insane about building your own... if you have an extra 10 years to play around with :)

You made a comment about availability of Gardners. When I was living in New Zealand I'd see them advertised in the local classifieds, sitting in some guy's garage. I almost shipped a rusty one back to America (until I was transfered to the Middle East).

But I think all these discussions about finding the perfect engine are over-rated. There are so many dozens and dozens of good engines that would reliably take you around the world. If your homebuilt boat (or used boat) is fitted with an International tractor motor from Alabama, an Ashok Leyland from India, a Weichai from China, a Doosan from Korea, a Niigata from Japan, a Detroit from WW2, a Cummins from anywhere, etc. etc. etc. they are all good. Just keep the fuel clean and any of them should never stop.

IMO, the availability of local mechanics and spare parts in today's world are overrated, for a cruising boat anyway. A boat that crosses oceans likely has a more dependable engine than a guy whose boat sits at a marina in Ft Lauderdale - because it is used and maintained for dear life!

Hmm, enough of my rantings.
 
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Brian and GSHols, we had similar questions about aluminium when we first started looking at what material to use for the hull and superstructure of the new boat. Our former boat was all steel and I'm a big fan of metal boats in general so it was down to steel vs AL for our choices. I won't debate the pros and cons of steel vs AL here as these are well known topics and one will likely appeal to each of you more than the other.

Before I get into it, I think it is helpful to agree, or at least tell you that I believe there is no "best" material when it comes to boat hulls until we specify the context of the boat itself, size, use cases, owner preferences, etc. Great boats can be built out of any steel, FRP, composite, wood or AL and each one has its pros and cons which will suite different applications and different captains differently.

Secondly and echoing some of Sunchasers comments above I don't think there can be any doubt that AL is one of the very viable materials to choose from for building boats alongside steel, FRP, composites and wood. I also don’t think that it is any coincident that in my travels around the world and my research it seems that the greatest growth of new boat construction is in AL. I kept running into more and more situations where new shipyards starting up as well as companies combing back to life after various recessions or other factors knocked their business down, are chosing to change over to or go more exclusively with alluminium. I don’t have statistics on this, just my observation over he past several years.

So the choice is about finding what material best suits a given boat, use case and owner. If you'd like to read more about our use case and ourselves that led to our choosing AL for our new boat I have recently posted an article outlining ourselves, our use case and the key attributes our design needed to follow. You can read the posting here: http://mobius.world/project-goldilocks-mission-impossible-or-just-right/

So I want to be clear that I am NOT any expert in AL and have not owned an AL boat other than small ones. I have worked extensively with aluminium for a long time in non marine applications building things with AL and have done a fair amount of casting, welding and machining AL in my previous life as an Industrial Ed/Shop teacher and with my many hobby activities. What I can tell you is what I've learned from all this and from my extensive research into aluminium as a boat building material over the past few years.

Someone who does have a LOT of experience with aluminium boats and has recently written some excellent articles on the topic is John Harries who runs the Attainable Adventures site at https://www.morganscloud.com/2017/11/11/22-aluminum-boat-care-tips-part-1/ The articles are behind a pay wall so you’ll need to be a member to read them but if you are considering AL for a future boat or own one already it would be worth the minimal subscription price for just these articles alone IMHO.

In our case we know steel well and so we researched aluminium extensively and had been doing so for years anyway as our dinghy was an AL bottom and we had lots of aluminium gear on the steel boat which provided good experiential learning. The result was that we believe AL is the best choice for us and our boat and I'll skip across the high points here in my attempt to provide some degree of answers to your questions and also why we settled on AL. Please just keep in mind that I am NOT building a case for AL being the best material for boat hulls nor that you should go with AL, I’m simply reporting on why we decided it was the best choice for US and OUR new boat.

We like the combination of very high strength and abrasion resistance for contact with harder bits above and below the WL, along with its elasticity to absorb and bend with blunt forces but not puncture. All up to a point of course and we in no way delude ourselves into thinking that AL or any other material is truly bullet proof but we believe that AL offers a great combination of these physical properties which match up well with our use cases. We do long passages and spend more of our time in very remote places and have lots of “hard bits’ around us from coral in the tropic to ice in the high latitudes so we WILL hit all of the above at some point and want the hull material to give us the best chance to “survive and thrive” as I call it, meaning not need to change our destination or journey to head to a yard ASAP when go aground, push through icy bits, etc.

Secondly we think AL offers us the least amount of overall maintenance time and costs. Our hull will stay unpainted above the WL and we will have no SS or wood on the exterior. Not needing to paint the hull saves money and time both to build and to maintain over the years. For us, we like the gray military look of unpainted aluminum as we want the whole exterior of the boat to give off a strong “don’t mess with me” vibe to any viewing us from ashore or other boats with ill intent. We fully appreciate that many of you will find this to be “ugly” and we’re good with that. Eye of the beholder and we have our reasons for liking raw aluminium that make it the best choice for us.

The “no paint” rule applies equally to the inside AL surfaces of the boat as well simply because of the potential for poor adherence of the paint to the AL which creates an ideal environment for water, fresh or salt, to get in there and keep the area wet and cycling lots of oxygen out of the air. This is a feeding frenzy and breeding ground for oxidisation of steel or aluminium and needs to be avoided at all costs. This is particularly important for the bilge areas or other places that have the potential of being wet off and on. Great thing in this case is that the best solution is NO PAINT or other any other sprayed on materials which can create corrosion inviting environments. As we boat owners know all to painfully, this is a very rare example where the best “at all costs” solution is also the cheapest.

Aluminium is also my favorite material to work with vs steel or FRP. I’ve worked with all of these materials to a reasonable extent over the years, owned, renovated and maintained an all steel boat for over 12 years but given my choice I’d chose aluminium to work with. I can use pretty much the same carbide tools I use and have aboard for wood working. It is very easy to machine with mills, lathes and CNC routers all of which I have onboard. And it is a joy to weld which I also have onboard.

Corrosion and especially that due to electrolysis is one of the biggest concerns so no surprise that you guys are in that boat. (sorry couldn’t resist) While the concern is very real these are all very solvable problems as is corrosion and electrolysis potential in other materials and in all boats really as we all have various bits such as props, shafts, through hulls and fittings which are made from various metals subject to the detrimental effects of electrolysis and needing proper prevention and monitoring The question of “hot” marinas for examples is not something that affects just aluminum boats and components, but all metals. Therefore ways of protecting against this are quite well known and proven, we just need to be sure to do it all with great discipline.

Some things we have learned to do and will be doing with our new boat in include:
• Isolation Transformer. I would regard this as a must have piece of equipment for ANY metal boat for sure and really for all boats. It guarantees that you keep the hull and the whole boat physically isolated from any stray current or faulty aspects of shore power supplies. We spend almost no time in marinas so insist on hving an isolation transformer for other reasons as well not the least of which is that for world cruising an isolation transformer also gives you the ability to have any AC voltage from 100-240v coming IN through your shore power connection and equally chose any AC voltage out. You still need to deal with the difference of 50 vs 60 Hz but the number of electrical consumers which are fussy about 50 vs 60 Hz is very small and getting smaller all the time.
• Isolated Ground: Also good practice for any boat regardless of material it is made from but particularly important for AL and steel. In short the hull is for keeping the boat afloat NOT for conducting current anywhere for anything. All grounds need to be isolated via their wiring and the engine in particular needs to be isolated from the boat itself via its motor mounts and then ideally have all the electrical items on the engine to have their own ground wires and not be using the metal of the engine itself to be a ground. Make sure to isolate the prop shaft as well.
• While more expensive it is ideal to have dedicated ground wires for all your DC circuits by using double pole breakers.
• Have good meters to tell you that there is no current flowing through the hull, especially very low currents. Takes a bit of work and hunting down good meters but critical to do so and a great part of SWAN for boat owners. (Sleep Well At Night)
• IF you own an AL hulled boat you want to have a good low current testers on board and check the boats hull for any current at regular intervals. This can be done with a good sensitive multimeter though it is a bit more time consuming. There are also several meters you can install more permanently which make checking this very quick and you can also use low power LED’s to build your own quick check system. However you do it, the point is to KNOW that there is no current flowing through the hull. No current = No corrosion + SWAN
• The other highly valuable, I’d argue mandatory, tester to have onboard any metal boat, especially AL, is a silver chloride reference electrode. You can look these up to learn more if they are new to you but in use you put them into the water and connect the other end to a multimeter which enables you to the voltage difference between the water the boat is immersed in and the hull.
• Also as with any boat, we will have a well sized set of anodes attached, most likely zinc.

As for concern about the protecting the overall hull material from corrosion AL is similar to steel in that your greatest concern is for rusting/oxidizing from the inside out, not the other way around. Below the water line all boats need to have some coating to deter growth and therefore assuming the bottom paint is kept in good shape, the hull is never in contact with the water it is floating in. Above the WL in our case as I’ve noted we will not paint the AL at all and this turns out to be a good thing in that AL is quite naturally looking after itself in that the surface layer converts itself to a thin hard coating of Aluminium Oxide which serves as a great barrier. It is when we paint this surface and have places where the paint does not adhere well or otherwise allows water to sit there cycling oxygen through the dampness that corrosion sets in and often takes off. Not much different than we learned with steel though aluminium does oxidise a bit differently.

Finally for today, the concern about the proverbial “penny in the bilge” is really just another important example of the need for isolation, in this case isolation of dissimilar metals. As with metal components on all boats you want to try to eliminate or reduce as much as possible, ANY contact between dissimilar metals. Copper and AL don’t get along well and there is some truth to the copper penny in the bilge, however it has also been blown out of all proportion and AL boat owners will tell you about finding stray bits of copper wire for example in a bilge crevice that was sitting there for months or years in some cases and had only penetrated a microscopic amount of the aluminium. And again as with all boats, one of the keys to preventing this is to design, build and maintain super CLEAN bilges. We end up with very few bilges at all on the new boat as we have almost all tanks below floors and the WL, and in the engine room and workshop areas where there are purposely low spots they are designed to be very open and easily viewed and have either no flooring overtop or where needed we will make flooring grates from expanded AL welded into AL flat bar frames. Very good to walk on and yet very easy to see through all the way underneath.

I hope this all helps to provide some insights and answers to your original question GSHols about “the long-term upkeep of an aluminum hull?” In our opinion when you take the big picture view of overall boat ownership costs and time, an aluminium hull will require the least time and money to maintain over the life of the boat. Perhaps even more importantly, based on our time aboard other aluminium boats and talking with their owners, that lifespan will likely be much longer as well.

What’s not to like??

Wayne
 
Thanks for that validation for AL hulled boats Sunchaser. We are in heated agreement about quality of both the work Circa does and the AL boats that predominate so many locations around the world. We've been to Circa several times and have been on as many aluminium boats as we can and believe that AL is the best and "just right" choice for us and our new boat.

Wayne
 
Good morning. One detail that my boat lacked and I had to retrofit, is large, easily-opened tank access hatches. I found that out as eventually the chlorinated city water you will take on will attack the water tanks and just standing water algae can grow in there, you will need to get in there to clean. Same for fuel tanks, eventually you will need to clean those too. Also, if you plan to foam the hull, do not foam any area that can get wet, eventually the foam will fail (just like other coatings) and the corrosion will go unchecked, out of sight. This is particularly true of bilges.

My boat is keel cooled and the cooler is NOT exposed to the sea, it is inside my keel so you can eliminate any corrosion issues or external-damage issues that way.

If you plan hydraulics, eventually the hoses will need maintenance so make sure you can get at them as they are very rigid and difficult to maneuver through bulkheads. Don't buy cheap hydraulic components (or anything else, for that matter) and make sure the filter supplier is planning a long business life!

I also retrofitted all my sewer pipes with schedule 40 PVC pipe, therefore eliminating future permeation issues with the hoses you might otherwise use. DON'T use metal pipe for sewers and make sure your design includes access and flushing ports. You will be very unhappy if you use salt water flushing. In fact, plan a simple but big water-maker and if you get a large enough version, only use RO water in your tanks. DO NOT be tempted to have an aluminum holding tank, save space for a large plastic tank that you can get at and replace eventually. Choose at least 3/8" walls and NO metal fittings inside. Make sure it has HUGE vents.

I also have a hot water radiator system (Hurricane) for heating, plumbed with Pex and with the great English radiators, I bask in the warmth. Install LOTS of valves in all your plumbing.

Solar panels - plan for lots. Solar collector - make sure you have room for one to heat water and help with the radiators. Modern ones are very efficient.

Bayliner interiors - don't sweat the cubby-holes, waste of time. Large spaces are better as you will have to get your arm (body) in there to repair something sooner or later.

Almost forgot, install all stainless fasteners with a corrosion block and ONLY use 316. Try and not use any paint outside at all, including decks. Anything placed on top of aluminum will cause corrosion if it gets wet. Sandblast the decks? I'm still working on that. Plain aluminum and bare feet is lethal (and when the sun is out, too damn hot to stand on!).

Have fun (for the next 2 years!).
 
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This boat is a work of aluminum art: I would kill to have a boat as well-made as this one, maybe 10' longer.
 

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Ahoy Simi! Thanks for the good wishes, I'm sure we will need them!

We had similar concerns as you about parts availability if we went with a Gardner but came to be completely confident this would not be a problem and that a Gardner 6LXB would be the just right engine for our new boat Möbius. As you likely know while whole new Gardner engines have not been made new since 1995, the Gardner company continues as Gardner Marine Diesel in Canterbury Kent England, and they make or stock pretty much every part there is for most Gardners.

We have gotten to know Michael Harrison who has taken over the business from his father who in turn worked most of his life for the original Gardner and Sons company. Michael was able to find us a lovely 6LXB out of tug in the Thames that was repowering with an 8LXB and I have gotten to know Michael and his staff very well on my several visits there and working with him for the restoration I am now doing.

About the only parts which are not currently being made new are things like the large castings of crankcase and cylinder blocks, heads and the crankshaft and they buy engines all the time to add to their considerable stock of used Gardners of all sizes and vintage so even these parts are available. Otherwise everything from pistons, rings, manifolds, pumps, gaskets, valves, etc. are all being made new. Michael and his father cleverly bought up all the inventory and much of the machinery from the original Gardner factory and have also outsourced some manufacturing of Gardner originals to other companies so they are able to provide pretty much anything we might need.

I am in the process of doing a complete restoration of our 6LXB to "as new" condition with new cylinder liners, pistons, rings, bearings, etc. and Michael was able to provide this and ship them to me promptly. Having spent some time with Michael on several visits to his facility I can not say enough good things about him and the company.

Our launch date is likely about 2 years away as we are just beginning construction of the hull now, and before we set sail I will order pretty much a full rebuild set of parts from Michael to have onboard just in case we should ever need any of them. As Christine often tells others she has come to be quite fine living on a floating parts department. :)

We are very much of the "belts and suspenders" crowd as we spend most of our time anchored alone in the most remote bays we can find around the world and far from the availability of parts and services of any kind. So in addition to spares of most every system on the boat, I also have a well equipped workshop that has a reasonable degree of machining and welding capability which enables me to come up with a fix for pretty much any situation that comes along and we have been able to get ourselves out of some challenging situation over the years in our previous boats. The fact that almost every single part on a Gardner was hand built within their factory was a big part of the appeal of the Gardner to me as it means if I don’t have a part I can likely make one.

Two other factors initially drove us to look for alternatives to modern diesels. One is the growing requirement for DEF (Diesel Exhaust Fluid) and given our scenario of mostly being in extremely remote parts of the world, we would be hard pressed to find DEF most of the time and would also need additional tanks to store the DEF. DEF is injected at about a 50:1 ratio which doesn’t sound like much but we carry 14k liters of diesel so we would need to have 280 liters of DEF onboard as well. And DEF has a shorter shelf life, less than a year, so we would need to find new supplies more frequently than we likely fuel up. The other and even more troubling factor was that several of the black box components of modern Tier III and IV engines including the main ECU (Engine Control Unit) are not possible to buy and carry on board. In our discussions with the folks at John Deer, CAT and Cummins they explained that due to current laws the only way they are able to provide us with a replacement ECU or several other such electronic engine boxes, is for us to ship them the failed part and then they take the log of information from this old part, program that into the new part and ship it to us. All very possible for those cruising close to major population centers but completely untenable for us. And furthermore there are very limited workarounds when one of these parts or sensors fail while we are at sea to keep the engine running even though it is quite capable of doing so. Hence began our search for alternative engines which led us to Gardner.

Even were it not for these requirements of modern diesels, I think we would still go to sea with a Gardner. One is reliability of such a simple and seriously under stressed engine. I don’t know what the exact difference is of the count of total moving parts between our Gardner and the JD6068 we would have gone with, but I’d guess it might be as much as 50% less. Our 6LXB is naturally aspirated (no turbo), no electronics whatsoever, the only electrical components at all are the 24v starter and alternator and every system is so rock solid and simple compared to modern engines we think we will have much higher reliability which is critical to our well being. The second key factor for us in engine efficiency. In my research I have come to understand that still to this day these later year Gardners like the LXB’s have amongst the highest thermal efficiency of any mass produced diesel engine. Some of the really gigantic engines producing thousands of HP can achieve a bit more but our Gardner 6LXB runs just a hair over 40% thermal efficiency and I’ve got the actual dyno test paper from Gardner to prove it! 

My personal sense is that in the valiant and wise efforts to reduce emissions, which I applaud and appreciate, we have lost sight of the forest for the trees. The focus seems to be more on reducing emissions than on improving fuel efficiency for example and I read conflicting reports on whether these tiers are producing less emissions but also less efficiency.

Don’t get me wrong these modern diesel engines are marvels of engineering and they are producing tremendous numbers in things like HP to weight ratios. However for our use case we can handle the weight and it is torque that we really want and I will gladly give up higher HP numbers for higher torque. The 6LXB produces about 740nm of torque which will drive our 1m diameter CPP prop very efficiently I think. In any case we will happily take the 40% thermal fuel sipping efficiency of our Gardner chugging away quite effortlessly for years to come.

Your question was timely as well because Mr. G as we call him, just arrived here yesterday and I’ll soon have a post up on our Möbius blog at http://mobius.world if you’d like to check that out.

Well, WAY more than you wanted and I’m sure you are now sorry you asked, though I thank you for doing so.

Wayne
I appreciate simplicity. My 120 Ford Lehmans have similar attributes. Naturally aspirated, mechanical fuel injection. Parts available.
 
You do realize that with a Gardner, you will be expected to polish the brass and copper regularly so you will need a drum of Brasso and a crate of rags?

I have a Cummins 6CTA 8.3 M1 rated. I'm happy with it too.
 
You do realize that with a Gardner, you will be expected to polish the brass and copper regularly so you will need a drum of Brasso and a crate of rags?

I have a Cummins 6CTA 8.3 M1 rated. I'm happy with it too.

Quite right XSBank that membership in the Gardner club brings with it lots of responsibilities for keeping it all "Bristol" and yes, Brasso has been added to the list of stores. I may be up for the task having been in the CDN military for a bit and being an Army brat growing up so I have had an intimate relationship with Brasso! :)

I am a lifelong gearhead and lover of all things mechanical so there is no denying that part of the appeal of the Gardner is the looks and I do plan on restoring ours to better than as new condition. Obviously so mechanically as our lives will literally depend upon Mr. G as we fondly refer to him and I will also go the extra mile in polishing much of the AL, brass and copper components for that museum like look. Actually not as silly as it may sound as keeping an engine super clean is good practice for safety and maintenance as it makes any leaks or changes very visually apparent very quickly. Some thought I was nuts to paint the 6cyl Cummins in our previous boat all glossy white but it made it much easier to keep clean and made the inevitable leaks readily apparent.

The engine room is one of my all time favorite places on my boats so I want to feel a strong sense of pride and appreciation for that big shiny Gardner every time i open up the ER door and step inside.

Wayne
 
Ahoy Pender Harbour! Sounds like Gwaii Haanas is a great boat. Victoria was home after my Dad retired from the CDN military till I headed off to BCIT and UBC, my sister lives in Comox, my brother and son in Vancouver and friends spread out all over the mainland and many of the BC islands. Can't wait to get back there on our new boat to enjoy that very special area.

Thanks so much for all your very valuable comments on AL hull boats. Nothing rates higher in my books than experiential learning or first hand knowledge so yours is particularly valued and appreciated.

I think we have addressed all your points in our model the boat is being built from as per the following:

• Yes, we learned the importance of good tank access in our previous boats and all tanks on the new boat will be readily accessible.
• We have always had watermakers and that is the only water we ever put in our tanks so that we know for certain it is as clean and pure H2O as you can get. The new boat will have a very large watermaker, we will likely drive this one with an AC motor and have an output of around 200L/hr (52USG). We have about 5300L / 1400 USG of water tank capacity as these will also serve as ballast to counter the large volume of fuel as it is used up and maintain ideal trim.
• Other than for exhaust gas cooling we have NO seawater aboard at all. I long ago learned to beauty of using fresh water for all the heads and we have zero odor issues and almost no maintenance issues as a result.
• We have a high capacity Alfa Laval MIB303 centrifugal fuel cleaner for true fuel polishing which will enable us to pretty much eliminate any debris or water from ever being in our fuel tanks. In the previous boat I build a very thorough fuel filtering/polishing system that started with a huge Gulf Coast Filter system then redundant Racors and a spin on fuel filter on the engine and generator. We had all steel tanks on this 1994 steel hulled boat (built in Sidney BC BTW) and I cleaned the tanks thoroughly just after buying her in 2005 and when I opened them up again in 2015 during our big refit in Fiji there was literally nothing but fuel in the bottom so this diligent fuel filtering/polishing regime definitely paid off.
• While we loved “living in a thermos bottle” as we used to call that previous boat that had 3-4” of sprayed in foam from above the water line and overhead, I also came to know the dangers of trapping moisture anywhere it did not adhere 100% and the challenge of removing it when needing to cut out parts of the hull or other maintenance. We will built the new boat to be even more of a super well insulated thermos bottle but we will use EBDM rather than foam. Much more work to install but well worth the effort for us and something that we can DIY very well.
• We also love keel cooling, put it on our previous boat and will be doing so on the new boat as well. As with our steel boat we will build this integral to the hull out of AL plate or tubing rather than external bolt on coolers. Our keel is too small so we will build the keel cooler channels into the hull elsewhere. The benefits of having a closed loop fresh water cooling system in the engine is huge to me and would never go otherwise.
• At this point in time we won’t have any hydraulics onboard other than the auto pilot power steering which will be a self contained system.
• Right now we have no plans for solar water heating but we have a very substantial amount of solar output to keep our even more substantial battery bank fully charged pretty much all the time. At today’s solar panel rates we have a bit more than 4.3 kWp of solar panels and the Gel 24v battery bank has a total capacity of 52kWh.
• We had a Hurricane diesel fired heater on our previous boat and it worked very well providing plenty of hot water for all the little radiators and muffin fans throughout the boat. This provided very even and dry heat whenever we needed it. For the new boat we will go the same basic route with small radiator/fans throughout the boat and PEX plumbing but we will put in a full diesel fired boiler for this and domestic hot water. Right now I’m leaning towards a Kabola.
• Like you, we’ve learned the value of easy access to everything and so there will be a minimum of any liners on the walls. Those we do have and the ceiling panels will all be readily removable using either quick release plastic snap in fittings or Velcro.
• And yes, we too keep a very ready supply of Lanacote and Teff-Gel onboard and use it religiously on pretty much all metal to metal connections, dissimilar or not.
• There is no SS on the exterior other than things like windlass and winches.
• Also no paint and no wood on the exterior. For the decks we tested out diamond check plate but didn’t find it was 100% non skid in all conditions so we will go with a synthetic glued down material along the lines of TreadMaster. As long as this is glued down very carefully we’ve been on AL and steel boats that have this on their decks for over 20 years in some cases. We will keep the colour as close to white as possible to absorb the least amount of heat from the tropical sun.

Thanks again for your very thoughtful response and all that first hand knowledge. Hope you will join us on this multi year adventure and continue to add your suggestions and ideas. Much appreciated.

Wayne
 
Doesn't sound like "ranting" to me at all or at least I would be a fellow ranter on this topic. We are a "floating parts department" as Christine often referred to our previous boat and this is largely because we spend most of our time in very remote locations or on long passages so we assume there is simply NO shore side assistance for us. Our previous boat had a rock solid Cummins L634T and we carried a spare of almost all her parts as well so this is not driven by the make or model or the engine we use but rather by our use case scenario.

I am fortunate in having been a HD mechanic in a former life so there isn't too much I can't look after myself when it comes to engines and mechanical things, but I do need the parts. Fortunately Gardner Marine Diesels still makes or stocks pretty much every part of the LXB and most other Gardner models so parts avaiabilty isn't a problem and I already have a complete set of all these parts for the rebuild I am now doing on our 6LXB Gardner; new liners, pistons, rings, bearings, valves, seats, etc. Pretty much every moving part and all the gaskets so when I'm done she will be in like new condition. Before we set sail on the new boat I will reorder almost the same full set to have on hand just in case but most likely those will be part of my will along with the Gardner itself and hopefully the whole boat!

Wayne
 
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