Charge for pump-out?

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$100 of fuel price or pure profit?
On a couple hundred gallons of fuel, profit, sure.

I know some marinas that lose money on fuel just to keep slip holders, etc happy about convenience.
I'd believe that..after I saw the books and saw how much of their unrelated costs are bled into the fuel delivery costs[. /COLOR]
just an hour ago I was talking with a marina employee about how some boaters have no clue what charging rates a marina needs to charge to exist.
I do have a pretty good idea. We've looked pretty hard at purchasing 3 different marinas, and got pretty thorough financials. Two of them were marking up fuel roughly a buck and the other did not sell fuel.
he agreed that better to not deal with those that feel boating should be done on the cheap and work with those that get it.
A bit presumptuous to suggest that because someone doesn't want to give something away for free, that it equates to doing something "on the cheap"
where I am from and cruise I wish there were 10X as many marine services and facilitiies....it would control costs but more importantly make boating a lot easier/less stressful.

So for now, I agree to pay the price to make boating services available through decent pricing...and the price of a pumpout being not much more than 2 craft beers or a couple glasses of wine. Some people just never put things into perspective

Has nothing to do with perspective. It has to do with what is reasonable to charge and what is reasonable to pay for a particular service, not how that compares to something unrelated.

Right now in plenty of places they dont exist .....as often the profit margin is pretty minimal.

who here works for less because they like it?
probably about the same number that give away money for nothing....not many

If it was $100 worth of fuel and not pure profit, I bet they just as soon not have you back anyhow as you probably wouldn't smile when you were tipping the pumpout guy to boot..... :)


it was profit pure and simple. When I pulled up to that dock, I was going to buy 200 gallons of fuel, at a price that was likely more than .50 above what the facility paid for it. It cost them virtually nothing, since the dock space was there and an attendant was already being paid. had I not been willing to buy fuel, they'd had at least 100.00 less profit. this is not about amortizing costs or anything else; its about having 100 more in the piggy bank than had I not been willing to stop.
As for not wanting me back, done deal although I find your snipe about tipping the pump out guy to be both condescending and irritating. But we'll leave it at that. We all have good and bad days.
 
it was profit pure and simple. When I pulled up to that dock, I was going to buy 200 gallons of fuel, at a price that was likely more than .50 above what the facility paid for it. It cost them virtually nothing, since the dock space was there and an attendant was already being paid. had I not been willing to buy fuel, they'd had at least 100.00 less profit. this is not about amortizing costs or anything else; its about having 100 more in the piggy bank than had I not been willing to stop.
As for not wanting me back, done deal although I find your snipe about tipping the pump out guy to be both condescending and irritating. But we'll leave it at that. We all have good and bad days.

So, let's see. In order to not pay the $5, you started your boat and moved it to another marina to fill with fuel. How much did that cost you? Would you have tipped the pump out guy? Did you where you moved?

It's your choice, but it's not a matter of some huge principle, no matter how hard you struggle to make it one. It's like some unwritten rule. Like the unwritten rules of baseball that lead to huge fights. It's $5. I'm certainly not going to move my boat from one marina to another for $5. Guess you will.
 
Well if I am in a bay or at moorage I don't dump. But once I am in the main channel, I legally dump.

ASD. I’m sure you’re aware but I just don’t want anyone to get the wrong impression.
In Canada it is illegal to dump your holding tank within 3 miles of shore UNLESS it is impossible to get 3 miles from shore AND there are no pump out facilities nearby. In that case you can legally dump when underway as far as possible from shore during an ebb tide.
 
ASD. I’m sure you’re aware but I just don’t want anyone to get the wrong impression.
In Canada it is illegal to dump your holding tank within 3 miles of shore UNLESS it is impossible to get 3 miles from shore AND there are no pump out facilities nearby. In that case you can legally dump when underway as far as possible from shore during an ebb tide.

If I recall, they also want you to be running at least 7 knots when you do, preferably faster.

Eventually, I see BC increasing the number of pump-outs available. I hope they do as I'd prefer to use a pump-out where possible.
 
You think $5 is gouging? Really?

Not at all. Around here it's the going rate. You seem to have missed my point:

I'm glad I don't hang out with anyone who would think less of me if I told them a way they can save a few bucks and support a business which is trying to keep prices reasonable for their customers.

We all vote with our wallets. Folks who take a "money is no object" approach are to blame for all the businesses who gouge their customers, yet still survive.

My point was, IF you throw your money around just because you want to impress someone, or you simply don't care how much you spend, then my contention is that you're encouraging merchants to over-charge, and under-deliver, whatever that may mean in the local market.

Voting with your wallet, even if it only saves you a token amount, makes a statement. I'd rather do business with the merchant who is trying to offer fair prices and services to their customers, than the one willing to over-charge or provide bad service or quality.
 
My point was, IF you throw your money around just because you want to impress someone, or you simply don't care how much you spend, then my contention is that you're encouraging merchants to over-charge, and under-deliver, whatever that may mean in the local market.

Voting with your wallet, even if it only saves you a token amount, makes a statement. I'd rather do business with the merchant who is trying to offer fair prices and services to their customers, than the one willing to over-charge or provide bad service or quality.

I understand your point. However, no one here was suggesting that they are trying to impress anyone with their spending habits. No one has suggested they don't care how much they spend. However, we do make decisions as to what our personal dollar threshold is before we start to worry about the cost.

I agree with you about supporting those businesses that provide quality goods and services at a fair price. I think most here would also agree. The point, that maybe you missed, is that charging $5.00 for a pump-out is not seen by everyone here as gouging the customer.
 
ASD. I’m sure you’re aware but I just don’t want anyone to get the wrong impression.
In Canada it is illegal to dump your holding tank within 3 miles of shore UNLESS it is impossible to get 3 miles from shore AND there are no pump out facilities nearby. In that case you can legally dump when underway as far as possible from shore during an ebb tide.

Interesting article. A reminder, I only dump where it is legal to do so. So far, IAW the article, I am legal.

Guide to Sewage Discharge Regs
 
Interesting article. A reminder, I only dump where it is legal to do so. So far, IAW the article, I am legal.



Guide to Sewage Discharge Regs



I recall reading that article a couple years ago. It had a link to a location of pump-outs in BC. Considering the number of boaters in BC each summer, it certainly doesn’t seem like very many.

Compare that to the map of the pumpouts available in WA.
 
In my area, it varies from location to location. Most places will not charge for a pump-out if I buy fuel. However, I have been charged for a pump-out despite buying fuel, but only once, and I recall commenting on it to my wife, but on a $300 fuel bill, I'm not going to squawk about $5.00.

Some marinas will pump out for free, with no fuel, but I try to squeeze something in the tank if I'm asking them to offload bio-waste.

There are a few places with free 24 x 7 Self-Service pumpouts. Every municipality we visit has a FREE pumpout boat as well. We usually use the pumpout boats. We tip anyone who pumps us out $5-$10. Usually around $7. Subconsciously I feel better if there is more than one bill in the wad I'm handing over.

With the pumpout boats, if lunch or dinner is ready, we feed them as well.
 
I'm going to approach this topic differently as if I was a business consultant engaged to advise a privately owned and operated marina (not part of a large group). I would concentrate on two areas. First would be volume, filling as large a percentage of slips and transient spaces as possible and selling as much fuel as possible. Second would be maximizing revenues for those services.

I would survey competition to start. However, giving anything away is something I discourage unless a compelling reason. Look at fast food restaurants that charge for extra ranch dressing over one or two per customer. Look at charging for cups of ice. I remember when I was young and my father had small business clients and he had a pizza customer who would give discounts and free food to friends and every customer seemed to become a friend. The words my father used were "you can never give your product or service away. If you want to give someone the shirt off your back or reach in your pocket and give them money that's fine."

Some of these things are the difference between profit and loss. They're also the funds for maintaining the pumps and the laundry equipment in top order. Not charging for items that you can reasonably charge for is like throwing money away.

We own retail stores and I hate the very concept and idea of "free shipping." It's not free. It costs. Yet, we provide it because Amazon and Walmart and others have forced it. Much like them, we do provide free in the way least costly to us and we do charge for immediate or same day. Amazon claims not to charge for Prime Now same day. How is it free if you pay over $100 a year to belong and then you're expected to tip the delivery person. Now, with Whole Foods, Amazon is giving Prime members "free delivery" through Instacart. Well, you fail to reasonably tip and you'll not be hurting Amazon, you'll be hurting the personal shopper and delivery person who used their time.

I do understand the argument against nickel and diming, but the costs of these services are not nickels or dimes to the marina. Pump out, toilets, showers, laundries, WIFI are all costly to provide in a quality manner. So are things like Security. Yes, including them all in the base service prices would be most convenient, but it also means charging those not requiring the services to cover the cost for those who do. It also is a marketing challenge as customers tend to look at two things when comparison shopping, price per foot and price per gallon.

As a consumer, I hate hotels charging resort fees or charging for internet. However, we the consumers have forced it. We go to Travelocity and look at prices. Two hotels charge $150 and $165 and we like $150 and then when we check in we realize there's a $12 resort fee and $3 internet charge. And they aren't optional.

After this topic arose here, I talked to a large marina operator that recently began charging for pump outs. They did so because they felt they were being taken advantage of. People were skipping pump outs at previous marinas knowing they didn't charge. People were buying 100 gallons of fuel to get a free pump out. They also lost some business when they started charging. They don't yet know if it was a wise decision.

I think the decision is very difficult but while it's $5 here and $10 there for us the consumer, it's part of staying solvent for the marina. There are substantially fewer marinas today than there were 10 years ago. As a customer, I'm going to strongly object to something I consider to be dishonest or some form of fraud or price gouging. Jacking up the price of a compressor after a hurricane or the price of water, I'll report to the state immediately. I don't consider a $5 fee for pump out to be price gouging and I will not object to it. I want pump out availability and I want the equipment working right. Oh, and I will gladly pay for in slip fueling or pump out vs free or lower price, but only up to a point.

There's no right or wrong but the issue is not simple and it's not dishonest or gouging.
 
Sitting at Osprey Marina in Myrtle Beach SC tonight. $1 per foot transient dockage, $5 for electric (50 amp 250 volt), and a free pumpout. There full as usual. Clearly a business model that works.

I believe the Army Corps of Engineers is building Osprey their own exit ramp off the AICW (actually they already have their own channel). :rolleyes:

Ted
 
There are a few places with free 24 x 7 Self-Service pumpouts. Every municipality we visit has a FREE pumpout boat as well. We usually use the pumpout boats. We tip anyone who pumps us out $5-$10. Usually around $7. Subconsciously I feel better if there is more than one bill in the wad I'm handing over.

This obviously an issue with regional variations. Here in the PNW, electricity and indoor plumbing are still such novelties that municipalities are proud that they have them so most offer free, self-serve pump outs. These are available 24/7 and most are available year round. Occasionally you find some that are just seasonal.

I have always done the pump-outs myself, usually alone. No one at the dock to take a line. No one to tip. No one to pay. No one to ask permission.

The only exception was at the Kingston marina where they have a pump-out system with a connection at each slip. During their business hours an employee will bring a pump cart down to the dock, hand you the hose and start the pump for you. I thought it was the height of indulgent decadence.

Now much of the central Puget Sound region as a "free" pump-out boat service. Apparently you just call and schedule a pump-out and they come and pump out your tank. I think it is funded by the WA State DOE. I've never used it but I may some day. My only concern is that when I pump out my holding tank I am pretty particular about rinsing the tank well. If there aren't any boats waiting, I'll rinse the tank 3-4 times. If there is a boat waiting, I'll rinse it once. I am pretty sure the pump-out boat will not do that.

So I am used to never paying for a pump-out. I don't even have anyone to tip. However, I pay a $5.00 toll on the Narrows Bridge every time I come home from the boat.
 
...We own retail stores and I hate the very concept and idea of "free shipping." It's not free. It costs. Yet, we provide it because Amazon and Walmart and others have forced it...

Very well thought-out write-up. Thanks!!

But the quoted lines are somewhat of a pet peeve with me. Allow me to explain.

Of course I know the Amazon shipping isn't "free." But neither is stocking the shelves at the local grocery store. And yet, they don't charge extra for "services" like that. It's just part of the cost of doing business.

I like the fact that Amazon considers shipping to be part of THEIR costs. They (I suspect) work very hard to keep those costs down.

Other on-line retailers have historically charged phony retail shipping and "handling" charges. I know they don't pay FedEx or UPS those retail rates. And handling? Give me a break! My local supermarket "handles" their product too, but they don't ring up extra fees at the check out. Those fees are often just hidden profit centers.

Including the shipping as part of the retailer's cost allows me, as a customer, to shop based on what my actual charge will be, and allows the retailer to improve their competitive edge by keeping shipping costs low. Win-Win.

When I shop on line, I check out multiple retailers in multiple browser tabs. The ones that don't tell me the shipping costs up front get deleted and I move on. Honesty is a big thing with me. Hidden costs are a deal breaker.

One more thing: You tip the USPS, UPS or FedEx carrier for each delivery? Wow. That thought never even crossed my mind.
 
We have used many (mostly) free pump outs but paid for a few - many $5-10, one or two were $25. In the winter in Baltimore the pump-out boat would come around the marina when the fuel dock pump out was shut down, the pump-out boat charged $75. Fortunately we could go 6+ weeks before we needed a pump-out.

More important to us is "if" the pump-out works. Several marinas have systems that are just too weak to empty our tank. One marina that charged $15 for a pump-out in Baltimore, used a portable unit with a 60 gallon tank. We laughed when we knew how many times they were going to connect and disconnect to empty our tank.
 
One more thing: You tip the USPS, UPS or FedEx carrier for each delivery? Wow. That thought never even crossed my mind.

No, but Prime Now and Instacart do expect tipping. These are the ones I referenced on tipping. Prime Now does not use the services you mention. If you don't tip on those services, then the delivery person gets screwed. Prime Now defaults to $5 but can be changed. Instacart has two different tips. The first option, which is their default, goes into a general pool to help them provide the service. I always delete that. The second is a tip to the shopper and delivery person and allows selection by percentage with 5%, 10% and 15% the most common tips.
 
No, but Prime Now and Instacart do expect tipping. These are the ones I referenced on tipping.

Ahh, that explains it. Personally, for $5, I'd just go to the store myself. But of course not everyone has the time or mobility to do that. A tip would certainly seem in order.
 
Ahh, that explains it. Personally, for $5, I'd just go to the store myself. But of course not everyone has the time or mobility to do that. A tip would certainly seem in order.

Sometimes it's worth it for the convenience. If you really place value on your time, paying for delivery may be a bargain. Also, sometimes you don't know where to find the specific item if it's an Amazon purchase. I've used a same day delivery a couple of times when traveling by boat. Cheaper and easier than taking a taxi or Uber.
 

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