Butt connecting very fine wires: N-0183 wires from AIS

I’ve had some discussion with a forum member on this topic, but I’d thought I’d engage the rest of you for opinions and options. Hopefully CMS will offer his views. What are people’s ideas about butt connecting very fine wires such as the N-0183 wires from AIS. These are very small gauge, less than AWG 22. Not sure what they are. There has been discussion on the Cruisers Forum here:

How to Crimp Little, Tiny Wires - Cruisers & Sailing Forums
The issues include damaging the smaller wires with standard crimping tools and butt connectors, strain relief etc.

Currently I’m leading toward connecting with 20AWG wire with the 18-22 AWG heat shrink butt connector by passing the smaller wire right through the connector and inside the larger wire strands. Other methods include doubling the wire over. Others suggest using terminal locks, but that still involves a connector for the terminal block. Panbo suggests 3M scotchlock connectors but 3M themselves makes no recommendation for that and they are really meant for telephone wire connections.

Thoughts?

Jim

correct butts and crimping tool may be best ....but for us mortals...

any of the terminal blocks for tiny wires that are reasonsbly corrosion resistant make sense.

Greetings,
Mr. JD. Great question! I've run into the same situation myself, all too often. My first thought was solder with a double layer of heat shrink but since I never do it myself, kinda lame to suggest it. I usually strip long and double over into the smallest butt connectors I have (the red ones).

The main objection to soldering is it hardens the wire/joint and is prone to breaking under vibration but since the mass is so small, it probably isn't a consideration/hazard.

Doubling over or even tripling the wire works well for me using the pink/red 18-22 gauge butt connectors.

David

djmarchand said:

Doubling over or even tripling the wire works well for me using the pink/red 18-22 gauge butt connectors.

David

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Same here. I would add to wrap the connector with electrical tape. Then bundle them all together and wrap that. Remember to leave a tail, in case you have to undo it.

I will double or quadruple over. Attach the other wire first. Use 3M soft heat shrink butt connectors with the glue. The 3M connectors are softer and I think require less heat. If you want to fabricate a strain relief over it, coat the butt connector and the wire, an inch on both sides with a modest layer of silicone window caulk. The silicone won't make it water tight, but disperses the strain away from the edge of the butt connector.

Ted

Greetings,
Mr. ASD. Sorry. Have to object to the tape suggestion. As an alternative I would suggest https://www.homedepot.com/p/Star-Brite-4-oz-Liquid-Electrical-Tape-Black-084104N/206513456

The problem I've experience with tape after a while, depending on location, it becomes a gooey mess and is difficult to clean off.

RT Firefly said:

Greetings,
Mr. ASD. Sorry. Have to object to the tape suggestion. As an alternative I would suggest https://www.homedepot.com/p/Star-Brite-4-oz-Liquid-Electrical-Tape-Black-084104N/206513456

The problem I've experience with tape after a while, depending on location, it becomes a gooey mess and is difficult to clean off.

Click to expand...

Well it can be, but if installed correctly with a tail and in a place not exposed to weather you should be OK.

Liquid Tape is good in some applications like outside connectors, but can be hard to remove.

Greetings,
Mr. ASD. Agreed on all points but I've found tape exposed to ER temperatures to be problematic. The Liquid is readily removed with Acetone.

Like others, I’ve always doubled up and crimped, but I saw this item online and plan to try it next time I have a need. It is an in-line terminal block splice connector.

http://www.imarineusa.com/AirmarD00218H.aspx

djmarchand said:

Doubling over or even tripling the wire works well for me using the pink/red 18-22 gauge butt connectors.

David

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That was discussed on the other forum, it several pointed out that it causes fatigue in the creases. I have no strong opinion but this concern was raised.

If I am connecting fine wires I put them all together in one side of the butt connector and crimp. Then heat shrink the connector and on the empty side I squeeze the empty side closed while the glue is still hot to seal the empty side. Then tie wrap the wires close to the connector to take the strain off the connection.

Deleted.

I used this on tiny wires for my GPS & antenna

I've got a whole lot of small gauge NMEA cabling, and faced the same problem with termination. For butt splices, I strip the wire about 3/8", put a piece of shrink tube on one of the conductors, then do an in-line twist. Despite the ABYC prohibition against soldering, I solder the twist, then apply the heat shrink. If it's a multi-conductor cable, I stagger the individual splices, then heat shrink the whole cable to finish it. If it's shielded, I wrap the splice with mylar shield before shrinking it.

I know the solder essentially makes the conductor solid, my reasoning is that the heat shrink provides enough support to prevent any flexing that would cause the wire to work harden and break. IMO, there's less stress soldering then there would be with a crimp, and the connection is superior, electrically.

For junctions, terminal blocks allow changes, and terminal ends enable color coding and labeling. NMEA can be a real challenge to keep organized.

A classmate from my 100 ton course is a marine electronics dealer in NY, top notch. He uses terminal blocks with compression sockets. A small ferrule slides over the wire to provide some additional meat as well as support and contain the strands. No ends to crimp on. Plus, they can be relocated to change connections around. He says that's the only way he does those small cables.

RT Firefly said:

Greetings,
Mr. ASD. Sorry. Have to object to the tape suggestion. As an alternative I would suggest https://www.homedepot.com/p/Star-Brite-4-oz-Liquid-Electrical-Tape-Black-084104N/206513456

The problem I've experience with tape after a while, depending on location, it becomes a gooey mess and is difficult to clean off.

Click to expand...

I second this, even without excess temperature, just time offense makes the tape a terrible thing to deal with. I used liquid tape to seal some connection and it s very good while it may be a bit messy if you put too much or in difficult location.
On the removal subject usually if you need to remove it it is because the connection failed, so better cut the wire and redo the connection, one aspect to think of when wiring, keep enough length to be able to redo any connection.

L

I don't understand why manufactures use wire that small. It's dumb. Serves no purpose.

Because it is cheap and they don’t have to make the connections.

Posi-Tap connectors are made specifically for small gauge stranded wire. They work beautifully. Slide a piece of heat shrink tubing over the connector if you like.

"I know the solder essentially makes the conductor solid, my reasoning is that the heat shrink provides enough support to prevent any flexing that would cause the wire to work harden and break. IMO, there's less stress soldering then there would be with a crimp, and the connection is superior, electrically."

Once set up , the simplest way to solder the wire ends is to dunk the end in melted solder.

This controls the solder heat and does not cause the tinning on good marine wire to solidify past the solder.

Like many have said, I would just twist the two / three / etc. wires together and stick them into " one " end of a crimp connector.
Opinion: I would never use the body of a butt connector as a part of a conducting path... I'd prefer a wire - wire joint ...... FB

Dougcole said:

I don't understand why manufactures use wire that small. It's dumb. Serves no purpose.

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I just installed a new Icom M330 VHF, and out the back shot out a number of GPS/ext speaker leads of about #22 and not even long enough to reach a mounted junction box. so, you are left with the solution in Tonic or Sabers post.
Jim Cooper shows a very good method if you can land these in a Jbox and don't need to change the connections later.
One trouble with any butt type connector, is that the wire insulation is so thin, you run the risk of crimping on the insulation, since the internal 'stop' doesn't.
I put electrical tape in the same category as pocket change. I'm dedicating my life to eliminating both. :lol:

I would use a lineman splice and cover it with adhesive line heat shrink.

NASA Wire Splicing Standards

You can feel where the solder stops in the wire and it gets flexible again. Cut the heat shrink a 1/4" longer than that transition on each side of the splice to provide some strain relief.

We all know out boats are subjected to way more abuse than spacecraft, plus I am not sure the ABYC approves of the lineman splice as a mechanical fastening.

How can you tell whether what you are doing is actually the best?

I have had this boat since 1994. In that time I have had to redo a number of butt splices (BS). Many of the BS in the anchor locker have been redone several times. several of the BS in the ER, especially on the EMON, have been redone. So far, few, if any on the GPS, Radar, Sounder, except when obsolete equipment is being updated.

I conclude from that, the butt splices in protected areas, where the salt air is less prevalent, where extremes of heat are less prevalent, where they con't get stepped on, are not stretched, are all completely adequate. I use mostly wire that requires the blue size butt connector. Where I am dealing with smaller wire, the red connector, or for very small wire, doubled over in the red connector.
Size doesn't matter, according to failures in my boat, only exposure to harsh conditions matters.
I have one terminal block in my fine wire, GPS, Radar, sounder, computer interface. I have had 0 connector failures there. All of the connections are in red crimps.

Bus bars, especially as there is no common colouring standard and many times I've had to buckshee a wire connection from a Standard Horizon to a Si-tex, for example.

what_barnacles said:

I would use a lineman splice and cover it with adhesive line heat shrink.

NASA Wire Splicing Standards

You can feel where the solder stops in the wire and it gets flexible again. Cut the heat shrink a 1/4" longer than that transition on each side of the splice to provide some strain relief.

Click to expand...

psneeld said:

We all know out boats are subjected to way more abuse than spacecraft, plus I am not sure the ABYC approves of the lineman splice as a mechanical fastening.

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I knew rocket science would come into this.

Who care what ABYC approves. They only recommend......

I have used the Euro style terminal block, have double or triple bent over the wire and used a red or blue butt splice, and I have used telephone jelly beans. Then I discovered Wago's Lever Nuts and never looked back. Simple to use. Wide range of AWG acceptance. Limited to 20A. In a protected area they can be left unprotected. In an area where they will be exposed to splash, put them in a wt junction box.

https://amzn.to/2G3xrQ8

Alaskan Sea-Duction said:

I knew rocket science would come into this.



Who care what ABYC approves. They only recommend......

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They do, but their recommendations are well though out, and generally best practices.

Alaskan Sea-Duction

Not to be preachey BUT:

Who care what ABYC approves. They only recommend......

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As a "Guru" with 3553 posts, you should care and if you don't, your insurance company and the surveyor who performs an insurance survey or is brought in to perform a survey after an electrical issue has led to an insurance claim will definitely care.