Cleat/Chock Through-Bolt Material

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sbu22

sbu22

Guru
Joined
Mar 16, 2011
Messages
1,253
Location
US
Vessel Name
Panache
Vessel Make
Viking 43 Double Cabin '76
I’m replacing the bow cleats/chocks with 316 SS replacements. The new SS hardware is countersunk and needs ½” fasteners X about 2” long.

I’m now searching for the fasteners. So far, I’ve had zero luck finding my “ideal” (Phillips or torx, flat head, 316 SS) fastener locally or on line. All of the “stainless” offerings I’ve found in that configuration are 304 or 18-8.

I finally located a 316 ½”-13 x 2” slotted flat head screw at McMaster-Carr. Guess that’s what I’m using. They also stock 316 washers and nuts

Given the apparent paucity of 316 fastener offerings, am I being too particular about not using the readily available 304 fasteners?
 
What size are the cleats? I would go with the 316 slotted screws. I don’t like slotted but you won’t be taking them on and off so it wouldn’t be too bad to use them once. Make sure you reef out any core material and fill with thickened epoxy. I really like using buytl for caulking. See pbase.com for really good directions to install them so they won’t leak.
 
I have had pretty good luck finding large flat head machine screws in 316 and silicone bronze at a local nut and bolt supplier who is located near a big shipyard.
The counter guy suggested using Allan head fasteners, which are much easier to use than a slot head, and after they’re snugged down, the hex holes cleaned with acetone and filled with silicone, they will remain pristine for many years, even underwater.
If you ever need to remove or tighten them, the silicone plug is readily removed with an ice pick.
 
316 is used extensively in pulp mills. You should try and find a larger supplier, perhaps, but then they likely won't bother with your small order. I bought aluminum flat-head screws, very hard to find, from McMaster.
 
Comodave - cleats are 10" - would prefer 12", but space constraints prevent. I'm all in on Compass Marine's butyl - started using it to rebed rail stanchions a couple of years ago. Superior stuff.

kapnd - you'd think with the amount of ship repair/building going on down here and on the MS/AL coast, that would be the case. No joy, so far. I'd rather most anything but a slot head.

Xsbank - I've encountered the bulk order requirement in other situations - here, I just can't find the item.

McMaster will solve the immediate problem.
 
sbu22 said:
I’m replacing the bow cleats/chocks with 316 SS replacements. The new SS hardware is countersunk and needs ½” fasteners X about 2” long.

I’m now searching for the fasteners. So far, I’ve had zero luck finding my “ideal” (Phillips or torx, flat head, 316 SS) fastener locally or on line. All of the “stainless” offerings I’ve found in that configuration are 304 or 18-8.

I finally located a 316 ½”-13 x 2” slotted flat head screw at McMaster-Carr. Guess that’s what I’m using. They also stock 316 washers and nuts

Given the apparent paucity of 316 fastener offerings, am I being too particular about not using the readily available 304 fasteners?
Click to expand...

You will need to cut a hole so you can put a back plate so the cleat will disburse any force over a larger area. You can install a small SS vent after you mount and secure the cleat.
 
Dan - thanks, I have plenty of underdeck access (for once) for generous backing plates.

I still can't figure out why 316 fasteners (at least in 1/2") are so hard to find. I assume that's what users would want for salt water boats vice the 304 / 18-8 stuff that seems to predominate.
 
sbu22 said:
Dan - thanks, I have plenty of underdeck access (for once) for generous backing plates.

I still can't figure out why 316 fasteners (at least in 1/2") are so hard to find. I assume that's what users would want for salt water boats vice the 304 / 18-8 stuff that seems to predominate.
Click to expand...

I use boltdepot.com a lot. There must be something associated with the anticipated turning loads on a 1/2" bolt that folks don't make them in phillips or torx. They seem to taper off at 3/8". All I see there is flathead also, in coutersunk & 316.
 
I just measured the holes in a 12” S/S cleat that I have in my garage. The holes in it are 5/16”. Are you sure you need 1/2” bolts? That just seems a bit big.
 
Positive. Kind of surprised me, too.
 
Ok, just thought that was kinda big, I guess you are stuck with slotted then.
 
So, 3 seconds after I sent "Positive" - I wondered why I was so positive. That's durn big. Went by the boat on the way home tonight, dug out the cleat in question and - it's 5/16". I owe you one. Thanks
 
sbu22 said:
So, 3 seconds after I sent "Positive" - I wondered why I was so positive. That's durn big. Went by the boat on the way home tonight, dug out the cleat in question and - it's 5/16". I owe you one. Thanks
Click to expand...

Yea, I wondered what size cleats would take 1/2" bolts.

It would have been an expensive mistake to buy and ship the wrong sized bolts, washers and nuts. Now that you know the correct size, you might have better luck finding what you want.

Note: After installing stainless steel hardware, we sometimes find rust in the screw slots and think we've bought inferior stainless steel. This rust is actually steel from the tools we used to install the hardware.
 
Still have the new chocks that do require 1/2" - McMaster is the answer. Interested in Fred's comment, but think it's a little out of my league for this job.
 
FF said:
SS bolts near/in salt water scare me due to their various styles of dissolving or cracking.

Silicon bronze strut bolts are nice looking , nice on top and do not suffer from the SS problems.

Slotted Oval Head Silicon Bronze Strut Bolts 3/8-16
Click to expand...

You will take a strength hit though. SiBr at about 1/3 the ultimate tensile of 300 series SS. I do have this SS story though:
I found myself inspecting my shaft log hardware. The log, of course was bronze, the 1/4" attach hardware was SS. About 14 bolts on each port and stb, I recall. I was shocked to see a number of the "aircraft" nylock nuts split. So, I replaced all with SiBronze.
On a SS cleat with 5/16", I'd go with316. It will be fine topside.
 
Just a note for closure. I've used McMaster for years (decades, even) as a source for industrial maintenance and repair. Always through large commercial accounts and purchasing departments. I wasn't sure they'd be interested in 4 bolts, nuts, and washers to an individual. Wrong again. Ordered on Tuesday, got them on Friday - standard shipping. Easy and relatively inexpensive.
 
sbu22 said:
Just a note for closure. I've used McMaster for years (decades, even) as a source for industrial maintenance and repair. Always through large commercial accounts and purchasing departments. I wasn't sure they'd be interested in 4 bolts, nuts, and washers to an individual. Wrong again. Ordered on Tuesday, got them on Friday - standard shipping. Easy and relatively inexpensive.
Click to expand...

Now a couple days to get the backing plates cut, install the cleats and cross that project off the list. Dont forget to bed them.
Next project?
 
Yeah - only - my day job keeps interfering with my boat boat repair schedule.
 
Definitely will bookmark. Kinda pricey compared to McMaster. The 316 1/2 x 2" I bought were $4.25 each. But I like the drive vice slotted. Course, I'm hoping to do this once.
 
I am so glad that I am retired. I would never get anything done on my boat if I still had to work. Now it is just a question of money, not money and time.
 
Looks like this has been solved but for reference Fastenal is another goof source for everything fastener related.
Convenient if a store is nearby but mail order always a possibility.
 
Bacchus - you'd think so. have a Fastenal outlet a block from my office - good guys. Two problems: 1) they really didn't want to mess with a 4 screw order; guess they're used to the petro-chem and oil field biz - 2) their list price for the same screw is 3X+ the McMaster price.
 
sbu22
Good info.
I've used my local one but what I wanted was in stock.
McM C is usually fairly high $... guess I'll do more comparison next time.
 
Bacchus said:
sbu22
Good info.
I've used my local one but what I wanted was in stock.
McM C is usually fairly high $... guess I'll do more comparison next time.
Click to expand...

My philosophy is, I wanted it next week I would order it.
When I am in the process of doing the job, I need the part now.
 
If it was an urgent repair, I'd have done it in 18-8 or 304 material to get by - and still ordered the 316 to redo at a later time. I can get all the 316 4-40 through 3/8-16 I want off the shelf at several local stores. Not 1/2"and up. May be a local issue.
 
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