Electric fin stabilizers

I'm starting to look seriously at installing active stabilizers on Kika, a 47' Selene trawler. I've read the many posts here, describing and debating pros and cons of fins vs. gyro vs air vs hydraulics... Now we have another option -- electric actuators (servo motors) powered by 24VDC. (https://humphree.com/how-it-works/fin/) Humphree, a Swedish company now offers these active fin stabilizers for trawlers and higher speed yachts. Anyone on the forum have first-hand experience with this new technology?

What's appealing to me is the sheer simplicity of the installation -- a big deal when looking at a retrofit like mine. Installing the fins requires the same effort and hull reinforcement as hydraulic units, but that's where the similarity ends. Instead of heavy duty hydraulic lines, engine pumps, fluid tanks, pressure gauges and controllers, these electronic stabilizers are powered by a typical alternator and controlled with a simple data network. Installation is said to take less than a week. Comments?

Here is a lengthy discussion thread (19 pages, hey they are worse than we are):

Humphree stabilisation system?

There may be some nuggets there, I'm not up to reviewing all the pages, but since you are interested you may want to.

I would wonder if an alternator running on an engine for this size boat can really supply enough power for the two fins? And if electric motors are going to last in that duty cycle/environment. I'm just asking, I'm not any kind of electric motor expert. [But] Electric motors have been around for a long time, any manufacturer could have implemented a system like this before instead of hydraulics?

JustBob
M/V Mahalo - Blog

nwboater said:

I'm starting to look seriously at installing active stabilizers on Kika, a 47' Selene trawler. I've read the many posts here, describing and debating pros and cons of fins vs. gyro vs air vs hydraulics... Now we have another option -- electric actuators (servo motors) powered by 24VDC. (https://humphree.com/how-it-works/fin/) Humphree, a Swedish company now offers these active fin stabilizers for trawlers and higher speed yachts. Anyone on the forum have first-hand experience with this new technology?

What's appealing to me is the sheer simplicity of the installation -- a big deal when looking at a retrofit like mine. Installing the fins requires the same effort and hull reinforcement as hydraulic units, but that's where the similarity ends. Instead of heavy duty hydraulic lines, engine pumps, fluid tanks, pressure gauges and controllers, these electronic stabilizers are powered by a typical alternator and controlled with a simple data network. Installation is said to take less than a week. Comments?

Click to expand...

Suggest you talk with the stabilizer guys. Response time is the big issue. Once you get the details for each mfrs response time then maybe some decisions can be made. Also, your current engine's PTO ports and simplicity to put a pump on plays into it. No way would my alternators power the fins, struggles enough for running the AP pump and other loads.

What size fins?

I have no facts to offer, but I like the idea of NOT having a hydraulic system aboard - if all else were equal. I would certainly give it a close look if I were in the market. Looking forward to your findings and decision.

Good Luck

Lying Reid Harbor, Stuart Island

Similar stabilization performance is going to require similar net power. Check the specs carefully to see what the full power requirements are, and what it would take to supply that power. Typically there is no free lunch.

Saw in a mag about new water jet stabilizers.

not sure what powers the pump but could be anything that met the oower requirements.

cant remember if it was side power or not...but the fins dont move, just supply angled water jets and they are extremely effective at slow or no speeds.

IRENE said:

I have no facts to offer, but I like the idea of NOT having a hydraulic system aboard - if all else were equal. [/I]

Click to expand...

My hydraulic Wesmars have been trouble free since new. Many prefer hydraulics over electric for thrusters and windlass. Electric stabilization like Seakeeper really works, genset needed though. As Twisted notes, power has to come from somewhere.

On your vessel you could certainly use passive fins if you so chose. The OP could do the same. Dirt Doc's new build NP talked about on TF is having bilge keels installed. Mark Price has a steadying sail. Or get a Lou Bodega design with hard chines, they are Transpac capable say some. Many options for decreasing roll.

Richard,
Please let us know what type you decide to go with. Stabilizers on on our wish list in preparation of heading south next year.
Cheers

I will be talking to the Humphree USA rep on Monday to discuss feasibility of installing their system in my Selene as a demo boat. Regarding power consumption: The servos run on 24VDC current and at max output consume 80 amps...average draw underway is in the range of 25-40 amps. For my project I would add to my Cummins main a Balmar 24V alternator 70-100 amp output and a 200 A/h AGM battery bank. I have a spare 100 amp leg on my battery charger and existing volt/amp meters for monitoring a second battery bank.

Wiring the servos to the batteries is straightforward, as is the plug and play CAN network that connects the digital controller to the servo units. Labor costs will come with opening the hull, adding reinforcement, and installing the servo motors and bolting on the fins. Cost of the Humphrey fin stabilizers is unknown, but I will update this post after I know more.

Looking forward to it!

Hi Richard,

I retrofitted Naiad 252s to my Grand Banks 46 last year.

FWIW, I would say that by far the most difficult part of the job was fitting the fins and building up the glass reinforcement for the pads which the actuators sit on. It required the whole interior of the boat to be taped up and covered with plastic, as the fine glass dust gets everywhere. You will no doubt have to do this same (or similar) work on your boat, regardless of whether you go for electric or hydraulic fins...

If the guys you are talking to reckon they can have the whole job finished in less than a week, then go for it. It will be the fastest fin retrofit in the whole history of retrofit fins!

Whichever system you choose, it will likely make a huge difference to the comfort levels on your boat when underway.

H.

OK, so I had that conversation with the Humphree rep about pricing for their electric fin stabilizers. For a package sized for my 33 ton trawler, the quote was $80,520. To this sum I'd need to add installation costs by a shipyard ($10K-$15K) plus a separate 24VDC battery bank/charging system ($5K-$7K)...for an estimated total just shy of $100,000. Astonishing, yes, especially when you consider that a fully installed hydraulic system from Naiad, ABT-Trac, Wesmar, etc. runs half the price of the Humphree product. My reply back was that if they can price it under $35K, then maybe it will have a chance to compete in the well established and competitive U.S. stabilizer market. I still think the concept of electric stabilizers is valid--it's just too early...like when Seakeeper entered the market with their first prototypes. I'm sure we'll revisit this subject in the future.

So...I am totally unfamiliar with stabilizers....so forgive me if this post seems naive.

IF stablilizers cost $100k, wouldn't you be better off with a larger boat in the first place ?
which will roll more, a 36 footer with stabilizers or a 40 footer without ?

Is the point of the stabilizers safety or comfort.

If you are a weather window watching cruiser will stablizers allow you to go for it, when non stabilized boat would have to wait ?

Or will both boats have to wait for the same window, but the stabilized boat will be more comfortable ?

IF stablilizers cost $100k, wouldn't you be better off with a larger boat in the first place ?Length doesn't affect roll, hull form does.

which will roll more, a 36 footer with stabilizers or a 40 footer without ? 40 footer.

Is the point of the stabilizers safety or comfort. Yes and yes

If you are a weather window watching cruiser will stablizers allow you to go for it, when non stabilized boat would have to wait ? Sometimes.

Or will both boats have to wait for the same window, but the stabilized boat will be more comfortable ? And safer





Gerr's "The Nature of Boats"
and Beebe/Leishman "Voyaging Under Power" are excellent primers/

caltexflanc said:

IF stablilizers cost $100k, wouldn't you be better off with a larger boat in the first place ?Length doesn't affect roll, hull form does.

which will roll more, a 36 footer with stabilizers or a 40 footer without ? 40 footer.

Is the point of the stabilizers safety or comfort. Yes and yes

If you are a weather window watching cruiser will stablizers allow you to go for it, when non stabilized boat would have to wait ? Sometimes.

Or will both boats have to wait for the same window, but the stabilized boat will be more comfortable ? And safer





Gerr's "The Nature of Boats"
and Beebe/Leishman "Voyaging Under Power" are excellent primers/

Click to expand...

I had the effect of stabilizers demonstrated last summer when crossing the Straight of Georgia from Pender Harbour to Silva Bay. Waves were making a direct course more and more uncomfortable as I approached the middle of the Straight, so I needed to alter course to take out some of the roll. ALtering to port introduced enough pitching to introduce too much water on the windows, to Stb put us into area Whiskey Golf, when active, so was not possible.
A stabilized boat was overtaking us, and his destination was to Port of ours. He was on the radio to someone else, discussing his stabilizers, so I learned that he had altered course to match ours, to take out the pitching, and as soon as we passed the corner of WG he altered more to Stb to take out more of the pitching. The stabilizers effectively controlled the roll, so his passage was somewhat more comfortable (less fatigue on the helmsperson too) than ours.

I have Naiad fins on my Cheoy Lee 46 LRC and I am impressed with them.

However, if I were newly outfitting a vessel or building a new boat, I would seriously consider (with some more personal research) these:

MagnusMaster - DMS Holland

Regarding safety, my already bad knees took a hit after a steep roll a few years ago. Another reason I wanted stabilization.

Regarding the quote, I would think a SK 9 retrofit would be about the same in order to clear out the space and beef up the structural it will sit in.

Amazed...

nwboater said:

OK, so I had that conversation with the Humphree rep about pricing for their electric fin stabilizers. For a package sized for my 33 ton trawler, the quote was $80,520. To this sum I'd need to add installation costs by a shipyard ($10K-$15K) plus a separate 24VDC battery bank/charging system ($5K-$7K)...for an estimated total just shy of $100,000. Astonishing, yes, especially when you consider that a fully installed hydraulic system from Naiad, ABT-Trac, Wesmar, etc. runs half the price of the Humphree product. My reply back was that if they can price it under $35K, then maybe it will have a chance to compete in the well established and competitive U.S. stabilizer market. I still think the concept of electric stabilizers is valid--it's just too early...like when Seakeeper entered the market with their first prototypes. I'm sure we'll revisit this subject in the future.

Click to expand...

...At $35k for hydraulic. I am on a 46 OA with ABT Trac stabilizers. I think the owner paid well north of $50k for these including all work, yard costs,etc. Still, I think your point valid.

Also, the way they were installed in my ER takes little useful space that I could have/would have used for other things.

The stabilizers are the best money the previous owners spent on this boat. Period.

T4Liberty said:

I have Naiad fins on my Cheoy Lee 46 LRC and I am impressed with them.

However, if I were newly outfitting a vessel or building a new boat, I would seriously consider (with some more personal research) these:

MagnusMaster - DMS Holland

Click to expand...

Thanks for the tip Have you found pricing?

I've been watching Rotorswing for a couple years, but they haven't been moving very fast into the marketplace...
https://www.rotorswing.com/magnus_stabilizers/

MurrayM said:

Thanks for the tip Have you found pricing?

I've been watching Rotorswing for a couple years, but they haven't been moving very fast into the marketplace...
https://www.rotorswing.com/magnus_stabilizers/

Click to expand...

I haven't priced them. I'm not in the market for stabilizers now. Since they are relatively new to market, they may not yet be competitive, but they seem so much simpler than the hydraulic fins and seakeepers. At least that's my impression.

Here's a cool boat set up with four of them:

https://www.shipsforsale.com/en/ships-en/shipid/957/raddningskryssare_3_astra/

By the way, ABT offers an electric version of their fin stabilizers. I have no idea how pricing compares to the hydraulic version, but if you have your heart set on electric, they would be worth a look. I woudl have 100% confidence in ABTs engineering of the system, and after sales support. They have been the Gold-Standard in the marine industry, in my experience.

T4Liberty said:

I have Naiad fins on my Cheoy Lee 46 LRC and I am impressed with them.

However, if I were newly outfitting a vessel or building a new boat, I would seriously consider (with some more personal research) these:

MagnusMaster - DMS Holland

Click to expand...

I’ve been in touch with reps at both RotorSwing and DMS (previously one in same but now separate companies). For sure, these magnus effect stabilizers are an intriguing addition to the market, unfortunately, both products require 230V AC power, meaning a large inverter and/or generator while on underway. The appeal of the Humphree fin product is they run on 24V DC, so a small battery bank and engine-driven alternator is all that’s needed to run them. All of these new products are made in Europe and aren’t readily available in the U.S...at least no demo boats on the west coast. Also, the pricing on this new technology is still way too costly to compete with the established stabilizer brands.

I have been very pleased with my Naiads - vast improvement in my boat's "manners" while underway - and I have a mate with a very nice Fleming 65 and ABT-Trac system and he is very pleased with it as well.

Richard, why not get both Naiad and ABT-Trac to give you a quote and pick the best price from those two? Ask Seakeeper for a quote as well if you are interested in a gyro - for Seakeeper the unit cost is higher, but installation way easier as long as you have space to fit it. All three are US based companies, excellent quality, and are well known brands which enhance resale down the track. I dont think any of those three would be a 'bad' choice.

FWIW, like ABT-Trac, Naiad also does electric now but at the time I enquired it was only for much larger vessels and very $$$. Personally I haven't found the hydraulic system to be any trouble at all, and as I mentioned installing the hydraulic hoses and the pump was the simpler part of the exercise. The hard bit is the hull reinforcement and pads for the actuators (which you will still have to deal with for electric).

Hamish.

I am still looking for stabilizers on myST52. Found the MC2X from Quick Nautical (an Italian company) An interesting concept as it doesnot require a cooling system like the SeaKeeper with a waterpump.


Installing seems rather simple although the equipment is heavier than the SK due to the heavier flywheel. Any of you guys perhaps seen them before? For a 20 tons yacht the dimensions are 61 x 61 x 66 cm (24 x 24 x28). Found some price quotes but they were not clear to me. Products | ANTI-ROLL GYRO STABILIZERS | MC² X - Gyro Stabilizers

Quick will be present on the HISWA Amsterdam boat show first week of March. So I will polish my Italian a bit.

We had Niaids on our Selene 47
They worked great. BUT be aware that active fins pretty much work continuously once you turn them on. Also, once you turn them on you will not want to turn them off because they make such a difference.
You already have hydraulic steering and adding a hydraulic PTO offers other options in addition to the stabilizers. Bottom line is I would stick with proven hydraulic systems that are easily powered by your main engine. Our Cummins 280 had no problems operating the hydraulics while still charging the battery banks. I suspect battery fins would suck down your batteries big time instead of battery charging .

After reading this thread I spent a few minutes in the ER looking over my Wesmar hydraulic setup. I came away from this quick look wondering how an electric setup could be simpler, cheaper or have less space than using the Vickers PTO hydraulic pump, oil cooler and roughly two gallon oil tank.

Since new, the hydraulic stabilizers and related electronics have been trouble free. A similar question could be raised - "Why not electric actuated steering" as opposed to hydraulic?

Or the main question - as nowadays you have a choice for the gyrostatic stabilizers:
Do you want things sticking out of your hull or not? I would prefer to have as less sticking through the hull as possible.

And as usual - size matters- I have seen a SK on a ST 52 and it took quite some space. Also starting up time is rather long although I have made a sea trial on a Greenline (not a trawler) on which the SK had effect after 20 minutes.

Mr. Blu said:

Or the main question - as nowadays you have a choice for the gyrostatic stabilizers:
Do you want things sticking out of your hull or not? I would prefer to have as less sticking through the hull as possible.

Click to expand...

So a few years ago off the coast of Oregon a yacht got their stabs tangled in a crab pot. It caused the boat to list and sank killing those onboard.

So Mr. Blue you have an appropriate question.