Article on new Waypoint 36

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Looks like that boat could be a "home run" for Tomco. Great value.
 
I hope they are successful with it. Looks like a nice option for a cruising couple. The only downside I see is the lack of generator. Having said that, if there is sufficient solar capability and the buyers are folks who conserve energy like sailors instead of power-boaters, it should do well.
 
Its a shame they didn't put the American Tug 365 in the table.

I like the boat, and if its cheaper than the AT365 with the same hull, I wonder if it will cannabalize the AT sales.
 
Its a shame they didn't put the American Tug 365 in the table.

I like the boat, and if its cheaper than the AT365 with the same hull, I wonder if it will cannabalize the AT sales.

They didn't include the AT365 in the table because the AT365 is a LOT more expensive as typically fit out and delivered.

My guess is that those that would buy a new AT365 will continue to do so. Buyers who are spending that kind of money will still want to get the boat that will best meet their needs. I think the Wayfarer will appeal more to either the boater that new to the market, or possibly someone who would normally buy a used boat but don't want the initial maintenance worries.
 
We're adding the AT365 to the table in the article now. Thanks for the suggestion!

We originally didn't include it in the table because despite sharing the same hull, the two boats are very different, and I expect the buyers would be different as well.

The AT365 is a single cabin boat (versus double cabin for the Waypoint), and most of the space for the extra cabin comes out of the port side of the engine room. If you want things like a large generator (a small generator could probably still be fit into the Waypoint), larger house batteries, more engine access, larger engine, larger tankage, etc. - and if you want the room to add additional components like water maker, etc, you'd need the 365. As mentioned the AT365 is a lot more custom (and customizable) and is more robust for long-range cruising for 2, and the much higher price reflects that.

The Waypoint has made a smart (in my opinion) set of compromises and optimizations to keep the price much lower, but I don't think it will pull away potential AT365 buyers.
 
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I know the AT365 isn't a direct, apples to apples comparison to the Waypoint, but neither are the other boats that are in the table.

Its a great looking boat. I hope it does well!
 
Personally, I don't like the saloon. :hide:

While I find a dinette an okay use of space in smaller boats, in a boat this size I would much rather see a settee than a dinette, as a settee to me is more comfortable than a dinette.

Jim
 
We agree that a settee is more comfortable. It appears that the compromise in the Waypoint was related to (1) the large Isotherm fridge/freezer (which would be awesome with more people on board to feed), and (2) that a settee in that amount of space wouldn't be able to comfortably seat the 4 people that you can sleep in the two cabins. The large dinette easily seats 4 for meals.
 
Looks like a great option for couples and cruising families with young kids. Does anyone know if Tomco gives tours? As a self-confessed "how it's made junkie" I'm always up for a good tour (GM, LL Bean and Boeing are just a few so far). Might be a fun PNW TF meetup idea.
 
They definitely give tours and it is fascinating. It is great to see the boats in various stages of completion.
 
Greetings,
Mr. B. I sort of got that sense as well. Fine and dandy to say "We've changed" But fool me once...
I'm actually surprised at the number of new boats with Volvos at the local boat shows. Could be that Volvo sells to builders dirt cheap and recoups any losses several years down the road when the vessel is off warranty. No skin off the builder's nose and Volvo can charge anything they want for replacement parts. NOT saying this IS the case but the historical price of Volvo parts and factory support is known. A bad reputation is hard to live down.
 
To be clear, as an introduction, I am not a fond of volvo in any way so bare with me for the following question...
Looks like a lot people here are against volvo engines, may I ask for more info as of why is that?
Being from european origins, volvo has quite a good reputation for cars and trucks there so my question, just to educate myself.

L
 
Volvo was not good to me. Wouldn’t use them again. With that said, there are a lot of people out there who like them.
 
It’s about support. They build good products, generally, but everybody eventually has issues. It’s about what and how they handle those issues. However in the US they don’t support their products per se, they farm that out to their dealers. The dealer is not just there to be the go between, and act as a conduit. They are supposed to be the mechanism to support the customer end to end, even when the dealership is in a losing position. You can never remove all conflicts of interest as the dealer is never a disinterested party from their own point of view. The bottom line, is that Volvo is that the customer can lose in ways that just don’t happen with Cat, Cummins, Detroit and pretty much everyone else. Personally, I lost support on three engine rebuilds that started while the he engines were within warranty, but because the dealer had not understood an intentionally misleading service bulletin by Volvo they did not feel they should take the hit. True enough, but contractually they were/are supposed to be the fallback support mechanism. There is no escalation to Volvo. They simply ask if you would like to contact a different dealer. Why would another dealer ever feel that they should pay for something a different dealer was involved in. The fault is with Volvo, and only Volvo. So as a customer, I bore the brunt of two and a half rebuilds for a latent defect that Volvo had known about since manufacture and had issued in their eyes a bulletin for. In monetary terms, that was roughly $20k.

THAT is why I will never own another Volvo in my lifetime. Oh, and i did eventually talk with someone at Volvo, not just the dealer. No help. They could care less. I have a metallurgist report, paid for by me. I have found actual defective parts out of the engines, tangibly demonstrating they were in fact present, not just possible. I have an actual copy of the elusive service bulletin with matching serial numbers and I have a documented history of both failure within the warranty period as well as documentation of the dealer not following the prescribed repair during the period they were not aware of the bulletin, leading to more failures outside of the warranty period because the cause known by Volvo was not addressed. Open and shut? Not according to Volvo. Don’t know what more could be provided, but they were ambivalent. Talk to the dealer is all they ever wanted to say and these were the senior guys, not just the gatekeepers.

Bottom line, Volvo just won’t support you when you need it most, even when it’s as cut and dry as it gets. You won’t be able to control when you find yourself caught between Volvo and their weird farmed out support framework.
 
To be clear, as an introduction, I am not a fond of volvo in any way so bare with me for the following question...
Looks like a lot people here are against volvo engines, may I ask for more info as of why is that?
Being from european origins, volvo has quite a good reputation for cars and trucks there so my question, just to educate myself.

L

I don't share the disdain for Volvo but do understand it. Parts prices was a big part of it, but now the other builders in their hp ranges have caught up to them. Dealer and corporate support was the other reason. I think most of that has been in the US as they're widely used and well respected in Europe. Still, in the US, you won't find the knowledge everywhere that you do on other brands. Then those two reasons lead to depressed resale values and ability to resell.

I don't know what year engines Ghost has his issues with. I personally wouldn't say no to a new boat with Volvo, but I think improvements have been made over the years, including the company becoming more supportive.

Some of the dislike you hear is justified and some may not be, but regardless, the facts are clear that in the US you will hear a more significant number of people against Volvo than any of their competitors.
 
...Some of the dislike you hear is justified and some may not be, but regardless, the facts are clear that in the US you will hear a more significant number of people against Volvo than any of their competitors.
The dislike crosses the Pacific. A neighbour bought a like new used Riviera 40. The marina mechanic said "It has a problem, 2 problems actually,the Volvo engines".
 
The dislike crosses the Pacific. A neighbour bought a like new used Riviera 40. The marina mechanic said "It has a problem, 2 problems actually,the Volvo engines".

I don't have a good feel for the thoughts in Australia so interested in what you and others have to say. Just in Europe the thoughts on Volvo are far more favorable than the US.

Now, as to Marine Mechanics, they can be lousy sources. They often are very tied to one or more brands on which they're trained, certified, experience, but strongly negative toward any other brand. If it's not something they're qualified to work on then it's all bad.
 
..... Now, as to Marine Mechanics, they can be lousy sources. They often are very tied to one or more brands on which they're trained, certified, experience, but strongly negative toward any other brand. If it's not something they're qualified to work on then it's all bad.
I`ll just speak for this one mechanic. He has no particular allegiances and will work on boat diesel engines in general. Even on gas ones, outboards, and on sterndrives(?outdrives). His concerns about Volvos are parts availability and cost,the way heat exchangers are set up,complexity causing increased servicing cost compared to other makes, things like that.
Riviera fit a lot of Volvos,also Cummins.Based on what I read on TF, the mechanics comments, other things heard locally,I tend to exclude anything with Volvos from my interest. A kind of "swipe left" I think.
 
Will Tomco provide a non Volvo engine to satisfy a new build owner's desires? Can't see why not. To be fair, a read of boat diesel finds numerous non Volvo issues. Many owner induced. Don't forget boat builder induced too, especially poor exhaust or intake system design.

Very impressed with how Cummins Northwest supported D Hayes engine swap out last year. What a great ending.
 
Will Tomco provide a non Volvo engine to satisfy a new build owner's desires? Can't see why not. To be fair, a read of boat diesel finds numerous non Volvo issues. Many owner induced. Don't forget boat builder induced too, especially poor exhaust or intake system design.

Very impressed with how Cummins Northwest supported D Hayes engine swap out last year. What a great ending.

Most of the anti-Volvo sentiment expressed here comes from East Coast guys with older Volvos. Their currently new engines have few or no detractors, so a general hate on Volvo seems to be an emotional rather than data based sentiment.

As for support here on the west coast, I am a beneficiary of great factory support. A Commander 30 owner couldn't get his boat from Vancouver to Bamfield as quickly as he wanted, so after Volvo was done supporting his efforts, he got a new pair of higher hp Volvos and I got his cast-off TAMD41s, at 1500 hrs. I couldn't be happier.

My mechanic was involved in the Commander deal, so I got the info from the horse's mouth. I have been impressed with the amount of support available here in SW BC, though I doubt it is the same everywhere.
I haven't heard of any other mfg going to quite the same distance for their customer.
 
Greetings,
Mr. k. Yup, all of the information presented is anecdotal although yours is direct evidence. Like ALL service/parts situations, a lot depends on the area of the world AND the supplier (sometimes I think it also has to do with what phase the moon is in as well).
As well as MY bias against Volvo based solely on "dock talk" I'm also of the opinion that Volvo's, in general, are quite good engines until...
 
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ATs have a loyal following. As an owner and having been through the factory a couple times, i can attest to the quality of the vessels and the people that build them in La Conner.
I suspect this Waypoint will do well and also help the small Tomco outfit succeed in a competitive market where it is challenging to continue to do all the manufacturing on American soil.
The American Tug models have historically been offerered with both Cummins and Volvo power, though a non-scientific search seems to favor Cummins in the past. Our 435 has a Cummins QSC and we're very pleased with it so far. We too were avoiding Volvo-powered boats during our search as i was concerned about cost of maintenance, but perhaps the newer Volvos will do better.
I haven't asked them but i suspect Tomco would be willing to work a Cummins into that boat... if not now then perhaps after they have cranked out the first few Waypoints...
 
Why not a diesel outboard instead of the Volvo inboard? Swap the dinette for a sofa and reverse their location...or, delete the guest quarters for a cozy sofa/bed plus more storage.
 
Greetings,
Mr. k. Yup, all of the information presented is anecdotal although yours is direct evidence. Like ALL service/parts situations, a lot depends on the area of the world AND the supplier (sometimes I think it also has to do with what phase the moon is in as well).
As well as MY bias against Volvo based solely on "dock talk" I'm also of the opinion that Volvo's, in general, are quite good engines until...

Time to stop repeating or even listening to "Dock Talk" that is not supported by actual evidence?
 

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