Boating 201

I’d like to take a boating course that would not waste my time and provide useful knowledge and hopefully provide fringe benefits such as insurance reduction. I took the USCG Aux basic course ages ago, have a dozen plus years navigating a 35’ boat from NY to Maine. I’m not concerned about cost, but it can’t impact working hours. On-line self paced would be best. Suggestions?

I highly recommend the Power Squadron Seamanship and Advanced Piloting courses. The latter is a real challenge.

David

Great. Thanks a David - I’ll check them out.

What do you think you need to brush up on? Does your state require every operator have a safe boating card to operate a vessel? I am old enough in our state I don't need the card but I took the course on line anyway and it was a good refresher for sure. Your coast guard auxiliary may have some advanced courses that would be worth while.

David Rive said:

I highly recommend the Power Squadron Seamanship and Advanced Piloting courses. The latter is a real challenge.

David

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Agree
Actually USPS has 2 Piloting courses -
Piloting - Chart basics, Planning & following courses, GPS etc
Adv Piloting - adds tides & currents

Check w your insurance - mine offered a discount for USPS course and second discount if you are a USPS member

Their courses are generally very well done materials - instructors member / volunteers but generally knowledgeable and willing / wanting to share.

mattinri said:

I’d like to take a boating course that would not waste my time and provide useful knowledge and hopefully provide fringe benefits such as insurance reduction. I took the USCG Aux basic course ages ago, have a dozen plus years navigating a 35’ boat from NY to Maine. I’m not concerned about cost, but it can’t impact working hours. On-line self paced would be best. Suggestions?

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Wifey B: None of the courses will provide insurance reduction. Actually, the state courses online are pretty darn good. Now, if you want to go to a different level, a Captains course will take you there even if no desire to be a captain.

You have made a dozen trips in a 35' boat from NY to Maine? You don't need to take a course, sounds like you could teach one .

David

Sounds like you have the sea time, take a course for a license with the uscg. It reduces your insurance as well.

Thanks. That’s the challenge with many of us on this board I suspect. We hit that intermediate plateau in our learning curve. There’s a lot I don’t know and even more I’ve forgot (the more obscure lights/sound signals etc. that require brute memorization). I’ll keep an eye out for the USPS advanced courses in my area.

(the more obscure lights/sound signals etc. that require brute memorization).

Red over Red , Captain in the Head!

FF said:

(the more obscure lights/sound signals etc. that require brute memorization).

Red over Red , Captain in the Head!

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Ummm..... no, it doesn't mean when the capt goes potty.

From ecolregs.com

"In accordance with Rule 3 (f) (General definitions) the term “vessel not under command ” means a vessel which through some exceptional circumstance is unable to manoeuvre as required by these Rules and is therefore unable to keep out of the way of another vessel.

Comments:
Exceptional circumstances are: steering gear failure, engine failure, electrical supply system failure, fire, flooding, uncontrollable cargo shifting and stability issue. "

FF said:

(the more obscure lights/sound signals etc. that require brute memorization).

Red over Red , Captain in the Head!

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Our instructor's meme was similar but included day shapes for NUC--
Red over red, the captain's dead, his balls are in the rigging....

As far as brute memorization, we were required to reproduce from memory the attached sheet. It's a condensation of the rules, including lights, signals, dayshapes, ROW, pretty much every facet of the rules boiled down to a single sheet. Since you're not permitted to take any material into the test, being able to reproduce this single sheet provides a memory peg to hang all the rules on. It was a very effective way to commit everything to memory, but it was brutal. The 2 weeks spent in the captain's classes were the most intensive of any learning I've ever experienced. BTW, the sheet works, I scored 97% on the rules.

yes ....but a decent arguement in my mind, if no one is at the helm, NUC sorta makes sense...

the COLREGS assume every boat is being piloted and steered at all times underway.

this is one of those big boy rules that for a small guy might be flexible and make sense if bent a bit.

a boat with no one at the wheel or looking out or someone steering without command authority or COLREGS knowledge pretty much fits NUC. Especially if you put into the frame that it is common for single handed mariners .....so how do they signal others that they are not at the helm?

and we all dont need a lecture on other rules like lookout, we know it cold, but yet countries and maritime organizations sponsor and condone single handed races/events.

The rules set out pretty clearly that NUC is not actually related to command structure on board, but has to do with the vessel itself, and a condition whereby it's broken. That the mnemonic has to do with the condition of the captain is more a memory peg than a literal iteration of the rules.

I know that and am about 35 years past with professional maritime experience... and taught licensing for 5 years, often struggling with a couple rules I thought could be improved for smaller vessels.

Anyone doing it that long usually undetstands the letter of the rule, but knows there are times it really doesnt apply well to small vessels and their operation.

so what would be the alternative signal to other vessels unable to comply with the rules not because of mechanical but human issues?

5 or more short blasts? But why make it complicated?

2 balls or 2 red lights...simple and gets exactly the same result or even better as there is no "doubt".

psneeld, with all due respect to your extensive experience and skills, I've read many of your posts, I'll disagree.

Rule 3(f) uses the wording "exceptional circumstance". This does not mean my convenience or I decided to run single handed beyond my bladder's limits.

That said I have made countless single handed transits, recreationlly and professionally. Sometimes I just gotta do what I gotta do and trust the autopilot. I'll do my best to make sure all will be good and I keep my time away from the wheel to the absolute minimum. Reduce speed to absolute minimum or if possible take all way off.

Intuitively it would seem NUC covers the above, but the Colregs are law and I know if I'm away from the wheel while underway and something goes wrong it's going to be my butt in the sling. I can't decide how I want to interpret the rules.

I don't think psneed is saying NUC is meant to indicate that I'm taking a nap while on AP, but rather is calling out the reality of people doing just that, and wouldn't it be nice if there were a way to alert other boaters to that. NUC seems the closest, though agreed not it's original intent.

But there is also no intent or anticipation of unmanned helms, especially since manning is specifically and explicitly required. So how to deal with people who insist on operating without a watch, and a segment of the boating industry that celebrates such behavior?

twistedtree said:

I don't think psneed is saying NUC is meant to indicate that I'm taking a nap while on AP, but rather is calling out the reality of people doing just that, and wouldn't it be nice if there were a way to alert other boaters to that. NUC seems the closest, though agreed not it's original intent.

But there is also no intent or anticipation of unmanned helms, especially since manning is specifically and explicitly required. So how to deal with people who insist on operating without a watch, and a segment of the boating industry that celebrates such behavior?

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Exactly. There are those of us who are opposed to operating without a watch (and don't consider asleep to be a watch), but there are recreational boaters who do feel otherwise and do operate without a watch, whether it's to go to the head or it's to sleep. There is no proper signaling for that as the regs don't consider that to be an option. However, the NUC seems the closest even though clearly not written or meant for it. It's making the most of a bad situation.

As to liability, it's already fully there in operating without a watch so using NUC contrary to the rules is really immaterial. If anything it might assign some responsibility to the other boat in an accident because, properly or improperly, they were notified the boat wasn't under control.

It sounds like we are all in agreement. NUC is not intended for a single hander needing to step away from the wheel. We have no good way under the rules to indicate we are temporarily away from the wheel.

In my defense and trying my best to avoid an Internet pissing match so many forums fall into I'll point out my first post on this was in objection to the phrase "Red over red, captain's in the head". Which leads to a misunderstanding of the proper use of NUC. And thus to potentially hazardous situations.

So let's put this one to rest and and agree to agree.

I wonder what signals the planned autonomous boats will be showing? they are being commanded but no captain aboard...

Portage_Bay said:

In my defense and trying my best to avoid an Internet pissing match so many forums fall into I'll point out my first post on this was in objection to the phrase "Red over red, captain's in the head". Which leads to a misunderstanding of the proper use of NUC. And thus to potentially hazardous situations.

So let's put this one to rest and and agree to agree.

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I learned it as "red over red, captain is dead". That might be more in keeping with colregs

Maerin said:

As far as brute memorization, we were required to reproduce from memory the attached sheet.

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I like that layout! I did something very similar, but did different sheets for sounds, lights, etc. Yours is much more thorough.

It wasn't a requirement that we do this in the class I took, but I think you really need to do something to visually "get" the rules. They actually start to make sense when you put them down this way and see the relationships between them.

I'm going to steal that format. Hope you don't mind!

twistedtree said:

I learned it as "red over red, captain is dead". That might be more in keeping with colregs

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That's how I learned it too. In other words, nothing is happening.

Thanks guys...some never get past thinking that there might be a better mousetrap....

red over red, captain's in bed.

First off, I can't imagine napping while my boat is underway with no one at the helm.

However for those that do that, I suspect that they would not want to hoist the NUC signal since it is basically telling the world they are not following the rules.

"We have no good way under the rules to indicate we are temporarily away from the wheel."

Strobe lights have come a long way .

It would seem fairly easy to have a strobe flash only once every 30 - or 60 seconds to advertise the location of a slow moving vessel that is not in distress.

Benthic2 said:

First off, I can't imagine napping while my boat is underway with no one at the helm.

However for those that do that, I suspect that they would not want to hoist the NUC signal since it is basically telling the world they are not following the rules.

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not really, just telling the world they cant comply.

no different and really no big deal.

the problem is if there is a collision, they would be found at fault for not complying with the rules on several accounts...and so might the other boat.

but until a collision, how would anyone know why the vessel was being declared NUC?

isnt it better to warn the other boat?

Benthic2 said:

First off, I can't imagine napping while my boat is underway with no one at the helm.

However for those that do that, I suspect that they would not want to hoist the NUC signal since it is basically telling the world they are not following the rules.

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In a previous life as an offshore tuna fisherman, we would drift at night. I used to just throw on the anchor light, like more boats did in that circumstance, but |I came to believe the the NUC lights were more appropriate in that circumstance in that it let others know that there was no one at the helm on our boat and that they shouldn't expect a response from us. Technically, we were supposed to have someone on watch, but sleep becomes very precious when you fish from dark til dark, day after day.

Slow down folks. The rules are very clear. It doesn't matter what mnemonic phrase you use to memorize them, or what you THINK they mean. Here's the definition of NUC, right there in Rule #3:

(f) The term vessel not under command means a vessel which through some exceptional circumstance is unable to maneuver as required by these Rules and is therefore unable to keep out of the way of another vessel.

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There's really not much to argue about here.