Rebuilding Sewage System

Well, its been 4 years and the "Premium" 5 year guaranteed poop hose has permeated and so has the holding tank so out it all goes. My question is the pump-out pump. The existing pump is a Jabsco 59090-0012 diaphragm pump which has worked fine but it has been superceded by a "newer" model pump. I want everything new but I can't duplicate this pump any more. Does anyone have any recommendations for a new poop pump? The toilet itself is electric and has its own macerator so another macerator-type is not necessary. Any ideas? Pumps you have installed and forgotten about and you and the pump are still happy?

I'm not sure about the new Jabsco model as they change them to make them cheaper not mo' better. Has anyone had experience with this new-model pump?

Out with the old -

Vacuflush makes a trash pump that is pretty indestructible.

Can you use PVC in place of the hoses? At least in the straight runs. Will outlast the boat. No odor. Cheap and easy to work with.

I used a liberty grinder pump, it will chew a leather glove up and spit it out

Sealand (the same folks that probably made the non-permeable hose that permeated) also make a good diaphragm waste pump.

David

Obendorfer , almost as "forever" as can be done on a boat , but the price is high.

When the poop boat or dock cart comes to visit , see what is used commercially , as they do not want to fix a system any more than you do.

Bummer (pun intended). What kind of hose failed that quickly? I can’t read the label.

Xsbank said:

Well, its been 4 years and the "Premium" 5 year guaranteed poop hose has permeated and so has the holding tank so out it all goes.

Click to expand...

What hose permeated? Was it Trident 101/102 or Saniflex?

What holding tank permeated? Was it Ronco?

-Chris

Greetings,
Mr. X. More to the point...WHAT have you been eating?

get the whale gulper 320 waste pump! I installed two gulper pumps, one for my bilge and one for the shower sump and they pump everything through - it's crazy. I can't wait for my macerator to break so I have an excuse to replace it with one of these.

Get your flowers ready for Peggie!

djmarchand said:

Sealand (the same folks that probably made the non-permeable hose that permeated) also make a good diaphragm waste pump.

David

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Dometic/Sealand T-Series Waste Discharge Pump. We installed ours over 10 years ago. We've never even had to change the duck bills. Once I let it run dry for 4 plus hours. Still works like a new.

https://www.fisheriessupply.com/sealand-t-series-waste-discharge-pump-with-whisper-quiet-motor

Have you actually tested the hoses and tank walls for permeation? Or are you just assuming they're the source of your odor? It's very rare for any but the thinnest plastic tank to permeate... The hose is Trident 102, which is a double walled rubber hose that has a biocide in the rubber formula. In the nearly 20 years it's been on the market there has never been a single verified odor permeation failure. All the connections should be double clamped...the single clamps on all the connections could be allowing connections to leak. The shutoff valve on the tank appears to be steel...urine is so corrosive that it may be leaking. And there are a bunch of other possibilities that may or may not have anything to do with the sanitation plumbing.

In short, I don't think the hoses or tank are the source(s) of your odor.

Hi Peggy, I hoped you'd be lurking! When I did the "rub your hand on the hose and smell it" test, it does. Where there are only single clamps there is potential for leaking and I honestly can't recall why there are only singles as I religiously nod my head and agree when you state "double clamps...". I can go and double the clamps and finish painting in the cabinet and replace the steel valve on the tank to see if there is any more smell but I would have to reinstall the tank to test it.

When I acquired the boat, the first task on the new boat was to rip out all the plumbing for the sewage system and wrestle with that very recalcitrant hose to make the system in the photo. It worked for a while but there was still a noticeable faint smell, now worse.

The tank was encapsulated with cupboards and bunks (clever) and this winter I ripped all that out to replace all the bunks with a double. That revealed the tank. The opportunity to completely redo the sewage system is here because of the unprecedented access and while the new bunk design will allow easier access to the system, I have done two systems on two boats and this will be my last. Either me or the boat will expire with the new sewage system!

The old system on my GB included Ys and valves that despite being soaked in bleach, were permeated. I am also going to assume that the Y and the Y valve and the obsolete pump are also permeated and just replace them. That brings me to the new plumbing, PVC wherever I can fit it, new (unnamed pump), new Y and new Y valve and a custom-made tank, slightly bigger (about 5 extra gallons) with a 3/8" thick wall and two, 1 1/2" vents. Two 1 1/2" inlets and outlets. The pumpout will draw from a tee in the tank drain. I am also going to mount the pump well above the tank so it can drain back when not being used. The pumps all publish a self-priming, approximately 10' head so I think I can get away with this modification.

Expensive, as repairs as you suggest may be possible in the short term, but I want "permanent" (boat permanent, that is).

A bit wordy, sorry, but I'm trying to sort through the logic.

RT, I already showed you my old waste tank with some of it's "personal" sludge inside so you will just have to imagine the processing of my food and its composition as I have revealed enough!

By the way, Noflex Digester is a miracle product, it ate most of the sludge from the tank and a bunch of fresh water and some Noflex a couple of days before made the dismantling of the system more (cough) pleasant. My system has one long, measly vent and I am adding 2 - 1 1/2" vents to make sure that the tank is properly aerated in the future. Cutting holes in the hull? Easy!

Replacing everything without finding and eliminating it is the short term fix..Finding and eliminating the real source(s) of odors is the only permanent fix. It's highly likely that the reason you can rub odor off the hoses is because odor from the real source has attached itself to the outside of the hoses and everything else in the system. Unless that source is found and eliminated, it'll happen again--which is the LAST thing you want to happen.

I'll be glad to explore all the possibilities with you one-on-one if you'd like to send me a PM.

Oberdorfer doesn't appear to make diaphragm pumps any more, Sealand is now Dometic with a price increase, Jabsco I don't trust any more, has anyone tried the Johnson 32 pump? That looks to be a reasonable design and not too stupid a price, made in Sweden (and them Swedes sure know their poop!).

Stupidly, there is no way to test whether my old pump is permeated or worn out without dismantling it and rebuilding it and trying it in the system.

XSB, wash your hands before and after the test....

Xsbank,
I used the Sealand 'T', now Dometic, diaphram pump when I installed my system about 2,000.
I had to replace the duckbills once about 7-8 yrs ago. Otherwise the pump has been dead reliable.

I realize you are looking at others but they are good pumps so even though a bit more costly they may be a better bet than an unknown even from an otherwise good mfgr. with a shorter track record here.

My pump sits atop the tank using a diptube into a small sump in the tank bottom. The idea was to really empty the tank.

If you can get all the new plumbing at the tank top there will be less/no sewage sitting in the hoses for long periods. THat should reduce permeation so even allowing for it still happening the interval should be much longer and a whole lot easier to change the hoses when the time comes.

I wish you success

I've had Sealand T series pumps on two boats now with success. Just be sure to carry replacement duck bill valves.

Re your hose and general plumbing, be sure there isn't any standing water in the hose. Even the best hose will start to stink if left in the hose, and all the manufacturers warn about it. They have to drain out. I found this the hard way in conjunction with a friend who has an identical boat. We both had a stink that we couldn't track down, and finally realized there was a hose segment with standing sewage in it. Flushing with fresh water after pumping out displaced the poop with clean water and 100% solved the problem. If you have segments that can't be drained, use PVC as mentioned by others. Its looks, for example, like your pickup hoses come from the bottom of the tank, and as the tank fills, you will have standing sewage in them. Thats exactly the problem that led to our stink.

All good stuff you guys, I am making some plans to change the system and Peggy is going to help out as well; so far I am planning PVC, double vents and mounting the pump uphill from the tank. I am not certain how I can marry PVC to a through-hull or to the hose barb on the toilet but there is nothing that a BFH and some glue can't fix. I may have to make a frame to support the pipe too. I still haven't chosen a pump but I'm leaning towards the Johnson pump, they have always made good salt water pumps so we'll see. Also, a generic tank has very small vents, I want 1.5 times 2 and most are 5/8th, only one. They do have above-tank pickups, which is a step forward.

Xsbank said:

Oberdorfer doesn't appear to make diaphragm pumps any more, Sealand is now Dometic with a price increase, Jabsco I don't trust any more, has anyone tried the Johnson 32 pump? That looks to be a reasonable design and not too stupid a price, made in Sweden (and them Swedes sure know their poop!).

Stupidly, there is no way to test whether my old pump is permeated or worn out without dismantling it and rebuilding it and trying it in the system.

Click to expand...

I had Whale Gulper diaphragm pumps, but replaced them with a single 120 vac trash pump that appears to be completely bullet proof. If 120 vac is available, I can get you the model number.

On the hoses, if you wrap them with Petro Tape, you will have no odor permeating them, and could fix the ones you have with the same process.

Xsbank said:

I am not certain how I can marry PVC to a through-hull or to the hose barb on the toilet but there is nothing that a BFH and some glue can't fix.

Click to expand...

A section of hose would provide the flexibility needed to make a connection and offer some flex in the transition. It also provides a means to service stuff. To transition from hose to thread or socket weld (glue) joint, the smooth SeaLand adapters are great. They're smooth inside to minimize any obstruction or snag points, and they can be glued to a standard 1-1/2 PVC-DWV fitting. Use primer on the glue joints, it'll give a stronger joint, you don't have to use the purple stuff, it's a mess- use clear. When mating hose to the smooth adapter, use regular silicone caulk as a lubricant. It makes the hose much easier to assemble, seals when cured, and if you need to get it apart at some point in the future, it will break free from the PVC and come apart MUCH easier than if you use soap as a lube.

For fittings in the PVC, use LONG TURN PVC/DWV 90 deg ells. You may not find them at the box stores, but a plumbing supply house will have them. They improve flow and minimize clog potential, plus you can rod them if it's ever needed, however unlikely. Always chamfer the pipe inside and out. No burrs! As for supporting PVC, cable tie bases work great with HD zip/cable ties. McMaster has them, make sure to get the big ones. The PVC is not as prone to movement as you'd think. Support it at direction changes and every couple feet. PVC for waste lines is cheap, lasts forever. Not too flexible, unfortunately! But you can heat it and form it. It'll never permeate!

Good info Maerin, pretty much what I suspected as I've never attempted to use PVC except under a sink. Thanks everyone for your input.

My 5 year hoses are 10 years old.
Hunt around for the source of the smell before you condemn the hoses or pumps

"and mounting the pump uphill from the tank."

This will require the pump to be able to pull the waste into it each time.

A bit of "stuff" in a check valve and you will be in the R&R game again.

A constantly full waste pump never suffers this dry out and usually has a longer life.

All these pumps can get "stuck" a bit at starting so the 120V units seem to last longer than the 12v jobs.

FF said:

"and mounting the pump uphill from the tank."

This will require the pump to be able to pull the waste into it each time.

A bit of "stuff" in a check valve and you will be in the R&R game again.

A constantly full waste pump never suffers this dry out and usually has a longer life.

All these pumps can get "stuck" a bit at starting so the 120V units seem to last longer than the 12v jobs.

Click to expand...

This is why most pumps specifically intended for waste pump out are diaphragm pumps. They are self priming, have good left, and don't tend to jam. Every 3-5 years you will need to replace the duckbill valves, and will thank everyone around you that the pump is not flooded with poop when its time to do that job.

twistedtree said:

This is why most pumps specifically intended for waste pump out are diaphragm pumps. They are self priming, have good left, and don't tend to jam. Every 3-5 years you will need to replace the duckbill valves, and will thank everyone around you that the pump is not flooded with poop when its time to do that job.

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The trash pump I installed has no maintenance parts to replace. I plumbed a permanent supply of water to the pump for priming and rinsing after pump out. Works great.

Curious as to why you don't want to use a macerator pump as a pump out for your holding tank. I'm installing a new holding tank on my Prairie 36 and plan to use a macerator type as the pump out. I also have a macerator on the toilet but don't see the harm in using a second one for the tank. Am I missing something?

BTW, I'm also using PVC pipe where ever I can. Especially in areas where I expect the sewage to lay in the pipe. It takes more time to cut and glue, but I think worth it in the long run.

FOG said:

Curious as to why you don't want to use a macerator pump as a pump out for your holding tank. I'm installing a new holding tank on my Prairie 36 and plan to use a macerator type as the pump out. I also have a macerator on the toilet but don't see the harm in using a second one for the tank. Am I missing something?

BTW, I'm also using PVC pipe where ever I can. Especially in areas where I expect the sewage to lay in the pipe. It takes more time to cut and glue, but I think worth it in the long run.

Click to expand...

Check and see what the max runtime is for a macerator pump. It might not be long enough to empty the tank.