Getting her convinced to go slow...

BandB said:

Wifey B: My eyes still work at 26 knots.

As to sights, I'm talking areas of the lakes not normally seen and sights on land not normally seen. Like the entirety of Lake Ontario, both sides of Erie, Georgian Bay, Lake Superior, both sides of Lake Michigan.

Simple case last week as people were talking about crossing the Gulf between Carabelle and Clearwater. One day crossing vs two days and one night. Open water. You don't see more at 7 knots, you see the same water slower. You arrive more tired. Same thing to the Bahamas. You turn an easy day run into two days and a night. Oh, and let's add one more argument. You increase the chance of bad conditions and less comfortable and safe conditions.

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Time is the only factor limiting seeing all of the lakes - has nothing to do with speed. Retirement is the answer for that.

The Loop is 6000+ miles of sights and protected water. Carabelle to Clearwater transit distance is barely over 1% of that.

It's all good.

BandB said:

As to sights, I'm talking areas of the lakes not normally seen and sights on land not normally seen. Like the entirety of Lake Ontario, both sides of Erie, Georgian Bay, Lake Superior, both sides of Lake Michigan.

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Sorry you missed the very slow Trent-Severn.

boathealer said:

Time is the only factor limiting seeing all of the lakes - has nothing to do with speed. Retirement is the answer for that.

The Loop is 6000+ miles of sights and protected water. Carabelle to Clearwater transit distance is barely over 1% of that.

It's all good.

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When you are able to go faster it does not mean that you cannot slow down and do much lower speeds for much or most of the travel and/or time.
When you do not have the capability to go faster that choice is not able to be considered - that is the point of the OP's post and the issue at hand.

boathealer said:

Time is the only factor limiting seeing all of the lakes - has nothing to do with speed. Retirement is the answer.

The Loop is 6000+ miles of sights and protected water. Carabelle to Clearwater transit distance is barely over 1% of that.

All good.

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Wifey B: Yes, time is a factor. You only have so many years, so many days in life. Time is a limited factor, you don't get it back.

Loop is 6000 or 8000 miles or more. Short cuts or the long way. And it's also time limited by seasons. May to September for the Erie to Illinois part. You don't have longer unless you want to sit and do no boating from September to the next May.

Speed and time are definitely intermingled. Speed = distance over time. Can't make more time so only way to make more distance is more speed.

If you want to go slow, that's fine, but the title of this thread sucks because it presumes that the answer is convincing someone else to go slow and that slow is the one and only right way. It's not. Slow for some, fast for others, but assuming he should be convincing his wife to change is crap.

This is what you need:

Boat's speed capability that is chosen by boat owners:


For representation... self contained pleasure boats of let's say 34' to 60'...


Speed is not only due to the shape of hull and size of engines chosen to purchase; but... speed [in other words the boat design that is chosen] has much to do with size of bank account available to keep her fuel tanks filled up!


I know, I know... all the posted-chatter about rolly poly this, hard chine that, snap back, gentle return, following seas, beam seas, hull speed, skinny or deep draft, low cog, trim tabs, stabilizers, steadying sails, etc, etc. Is often [but not always] simply because the particular "boat" mentioned [i.e. chosen] can not go really fast enough when needed.


So here we are again with - - > "... size of bank account available to keep her fuel tanks filled up!" IMO, there are few captains that would not like their craft to be able to get up and go when/if needed. Sure it's fun to also lope along at hull speed and enjoy that leisurely speed... but it's also fun to get up on plane and make some miles asap when desired or required.

Another way to put it!

Speed of the boat chosen to purchase [planing or not] is directly proportional to the angle of the dangle [cash in bank account] times motion of the ocean [need or not for speed] minus the square root of the size of the engines' [in other words... per gallon fuel use]. And is inversely proportional to the mass of the boat’s ass.

I read this thread through quickly so perhaps am duplicate existing replies. 17kts does not outrun any storm, unless you mean it allows taking an earlier weather window a day early and do it in daylight. We ran our Marine trader 47 trawler at 8kts cruise but it could hit 17 at WOT with a tanker following behind, 8kts was fast to us as we came from a lifetime of cruising under sail where even with a fast boat, averages of 6-7kts were red letter days. However our sailboats were all very capable of handling bad weather encountered and we love night sails so longer passages were never a problem. We frequently chose to leave or arrive in darkness as the lit approches were often easier to identify.

Seems to me there is a certain lack of confidence at play here with someone not happy to expand their comfort zone.

Has anyone mentioned power catamarans yet?

For the record, I own a 7 knot trawler and cruise primarily the Chesapeake Bay, but have been to NY and NC. Can someone please validate my understanding that being able to cruise at 17 knots when necessary is not just to outrun storms or having one more day in Bahamas. A planing hull at 17 knots is actually more comfortable in choppy but safe seas than a displacement hull even a 45' long one without stabilizers. IOW the benefit of large engines is not just speed, but comfort. A wallowing 45' trawler without paravanes or active stabilizers is not that comfortable in 6 foot seas, whereas a 40' planing MY can choose a reasonably comfortable course in the same 6 foot seas. So, the benefit of the MY is that it opens up the weather window for a passage and the choices for cruising grounds.

MurrayM said:

This is what you need:

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Murray.....I love to watch these Grumman Geese load at the resorts. The plane is tipped way to starboard to allow access to the cargo bays. Do these come into Kitimat?

NDM said:

For the record, I own a 7 knot trawler and cruise primarily the Chesapeake Bay, but have been to NY and NC. Can someone please validate my understanding that being able to cruise at 17 knots when necessary is not just to outrun storms or having one more day in Bahamas. A planing hull at 17 knots is actually more comfortable in choppy but safe seas than a displacement hull even a 45' long one without stabilizers. IOW the benefit of large engines is not just speed, but comfort. A wallowing 45' trawler without paravanes or active stabilizers is not that comfortable in 6 foot seas, whereas a 40' planing MY can choose a reasonably comfortable course in the same 6 foot seas. So, the benefit of the MY is that it opens up the weather window for a passage and the choices for cruising grounds.

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I have owned 34 and 43 foot 'trawlers' as well as similar and larger 'MY's" and can say in my opinion this is true for us. In Long Island sound it is often a much more comfortable ride at higher speeds, And with some weather conditions changing quickly we can 'out run ' them. In many places we found the challenge of a 3-5 knots current to be quite a problem when our boat was capable of 7-8 knots. Cruising the area of Block Island to Kingston NY and around LI would leave you with these challenges unless you waited for tides hours on end - and still you could not avoid all of them.

Robin said:

I read this thread through quickly so perhaps am duplicate existing replies. 17kts does not outrun any storm, unless you mean it allows taking an earlier weather window a day early and do it in daylight. We ran our Marine trader 47 trawler at 8kts cruise but it could hit 17 at WOT with a tanker following behind, 8kts was fast to us as we came from a lifetime of cruising under sail where even with a fast boat, averages of 6-7kts were red letter days. However our sailboats were all very capable of handling bad weather encountered and we love night sails so longer passages were never a problem. We frequently chose to leave or arrive in darkness as the lit approches were often easier to identify.

Seems to me there is a certain lack of confidence at play here with someone not happy to expand their comfort zone.

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I cruise at 17 knots. It will outrun any storm going less than 17 knots....simple as that!!! Do you know that hurricanes often move at less than 17 knots???(that is somewhat of a joke).

BUT, back to your main point. I think the term "outrun" is not a good term and one you took literally. If I am 2 miles from my marine/dock and there is a storm 5 miles on the other side of the marina doing 20 knots, I can do 17 knots and BEAT the storm to the marina. I did not "outrun" it but my speed did allow me to get to safely to my slip before the storm got there thus avoiding me having to deal with the storm "at sea". You can pretty much apply this scenario in many different situations. So take that FWIW!!!!

And I agree. The biggest issue with a displacement speed boat is short choppy beam seas. Seas that match the roll rate of your boat. So each roll actually builds on the last roll...up to a point obviously. While not completely unsafe....it is extremely uncomfortable and will throw things around if the cabin was not preoperly secured for sea. My boat on plane takes a beam sea very comfortably. In fact, the most uncomfortable sea in my boat is head seas. A beam sea is quite comfortable on plane as the boat is supported hydrodynamically and does not really roll at all....it just goes up and down with each swell.

how do you convince your wife ? You don't. You count your blessings that your wife likes to boat, and you get a boat that you both agree on.

Benthic2 said:

how do you convince your wife ? You don't. You count your blessings that your wife likes to boat, and you get a boat that you both agree on.

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One of the best comments ever on the history of this forum. It is not about who holds the power. It is about making both partners happy. You should both be ecstatic about your boat choice!!! And if that is the case, then there will be much enjoyment in your boating future!!

And... there are "trawler type" boats as others have mentioned that will go 15-18 knots.

Benthic2 said:

how do you convince your wife ? You don't. You count your blessings that your wife likes to boat, and you get a boat that you both agree on.

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Jim

Baker said:

I cruise at 17 knots. It will outrun any storm going less than 17 knots....simple as that!!! Do you know that hurricanes often move at less than 17 knots???(that is somewhat of a joke).

BUT, back to your main point. I think the term "outrun" is not a good term and one you took literally. If I am 2 miles from my marine/dock and there is a storm 5 miles on the other side of the marina doing 20 knots, I can do 17 knots and BEAT the storm to the marina. I did not "outrun" it but my speed did allow me to get to safely to my slip before the storm got there thus avoiding me having to deal with the storm "at sea". You can pretty much apply this scenario in many different situations. So take that FWIW!!!!

And I agree. The biggest issue with a displacement speed boat is short choppy beam seas. Seas that match the roll rate of your boat. So each roll actually builds on the last roll...up to a point obviously. While not completely unsafe....it is extremely uncomfortable and will throw things around if the cabin was not preoperly secured for sea. My boat on plane takes a beam sea very comfortably. In fact, the most uncomfortable sea in my boat is head seas. A beam sea is quite comfortable on plane as the boat is supported hydrodynamically and does not really roll at all....it just goes up and down with each swell.

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Agreed, but bad stuff often happens well ahead of approaching storms and the speed of the storm centre is not so indicative of when the nasty stuff hits., large seas/swells also precede the main storm itself However the example given of a storm approaching from ahead is very valid, just not one as a long term sailboat man that I considered. As a Brit having spent most of my time on rag and stick boats in European Atlantic, Biscay and English Channel) waters when I think 'storm' I think storm 'system'. like an incoming depression with it's associated fronts rather than what I call a thunderstorm or squall line one often local . Our new boat is actually capable of up to 30kts WOT and 25kts cruise but may nevertheless be run long periods at pure displacement speed too, like 7-8kts. We enjoy the journey itself as well as the post arrival

boathealer said:

Time is the only factor limiting seeing all of the lakes - has nothing to do with speed. Retirement is the answer for that.
:

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We could retire 20 years before retirement age seeing things at 8 knots
Or work until we're 65 to see them at 20 knots.
8 knots is good and so is life.

Robin said:

Agreed, but bad stuff often happens well ahead of approaching storms and the speed of the storm centre is not so indicative of when the nasty stuff hits., large seas/swells also precede the main storm itself However the example given of a storm approaching from ahead is very valid, just not one as a long term sailboat man that I considered. As a Brit having spent most of my time on rag and stick boats in European Atlantic, Biscay and English Channel) waters when I think 'storm' I think storm 'system'. like an incoming depression with it's associated fronts rather than what I call a thunderstorm or squall line one often local . Our new boat is actually capable of up to 30kts WOT and 25kts cruise but may nevertheless be run long periods at pure displacement speed too, like 7-8kts. We enjoy the journey itself as well as the post arrival

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Agreed on all. Especially ref to my hurricane remark....which is why I qualified it as mostly a joke. While a storm center may move at 7 knots, the bands around a hurricane are hauling ass!!!

And yes, my reference was mostly to inland and coastal cruising as most people will not be doing open ocean passages in a planing powerboat. ANd when I say "open ocean" I mean one where the crew is watching a "storm system" DAYS in adavance and coming up with a strategy. And mostly that strategy does not involve the (adjustment of the)speed at which you are traveling.

BandB said:

Wifey B: Well, the best example I can give is our Great Loop trip. We saw at least twice as much as the typical looper because of speed. We were able to cruise as fast as 26-28 knots, averaged 15-16 knots with locks and everything. We had twice the time for sightseeing.

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And you could have seen ten times as much as the typical looper if you had travelled in a car.

When I want to get somewhere in a hurry, I drive my car. If I want to take it slow and easy and smell the roses, I take my trawler.

Greetings,
Mr. K9. I don't know if this has been mentioned yet but it sounds like you're about the journey and she's about the destination...

Our preference is cruising around 7-8 knots.


That said, when we bought this last boat we wanted something that would cruise at above 20 knots for those times when we just wanted to get there.


There are several passages that are 100NM or so. Cape Fear to Charleston, Naples to Marathon, etc. where we can have an easy day - versus an exhausting day.


My personal preference is the option for either.

RT Firefly said:

Greetings,
Mr. K9. I don't know if this has been mentioned yet but it sounds like you're about the journey and she's about the destination...

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I`ve heard some guys need persuading to "go slow".

aboatman said:

And you could have seen ten times as much as the typical looper if you had travelled in a car.

When I want to get somewhere in a hurry, I drive my car. If I want to take it slow and easy and smell the roses, I take my trawler.

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That's my thought too.

If one is doing coastal/inland boating, a fast boat to escape weather isn't necessary if one pays a bit of attention.

Life is easier avoiding flotsam, jetsam, kayakers, erratic sailboaters, and such at six knots rather than multiples of that speed. ... When I'm on a boat or ship, it's the voyage and not the port/anchorage that's most important.

If I were to ever run aground Or hit a submerged object , I'd rather be doing it at 7 knots.

Ted

Ken E. said:

Murray.....I love to watch these Grumman Geese load at the resorts. The plane is tipped way to starboard to allow access to the cargo bays. Do these come into Kitimat?

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Nope, no sea plane base here at all. Flew in one from Prince Rupert to Haida Gwaii forty years ago...memorable!

Tom.B said:

Yep... Same here.

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I also agree with her.

Don’t feel alone... I had a nice slow boat picked out, then I had a similar discussion with my wife. And I saw her wisdom

We had two choices. Get a faster boat, which I named “Lisas Way”.

Or get the slow boat I wanted and use my wifes suggested name “Forced Abstinence”

Dont worry, you will learn to love your faster boat

That is a true story, but in all seriousness she was right. the ability to get somewhere, and extend a trip, or outrun weather, or get somehwere without making our dogs suffer, is a very good feature in a boat

MurrayM said:

Nope, no sea plane base here at all. Flew in one from Prince Rupert to Haida Gwaii forty years ago...memorable!

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Yes. Thanks for the memories. Weldwood, one of the big forest companies, had one and I used to fly into camp on it.

Capability is simply and profoundly the real difference betwixt a large boat that can go at least somewhat fast when required or desired... and one that can only go slow.

A boat that can go fast always has capability to go slow if you want. Boat that can only go slow never has capability to go fast... no matter how hard you want it to.


Boat designed for some speed [i.e. planning or semi displacement hull] when going slow [just under hull speed] gets pretty darn good fuel mileage; when going fast it gets considerably acceptable mileage for time taken to cover a distance.

No doubt... boat designed to go slow [displacement hull] in general gets the best fuel mileage; when trying to use enough hp to go fast... the owner needs much stock and dividend returns in EXON Oil!