Moving from Sail to a Trawler
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The friendliest place on the web for anyone who enjoys boating.
If you have answers, please help by responding to the unanswered posts.
If you have answers, please help by responding to the unanswered posts.
Nomad Willy
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Larry B paints a clear picture of the west coast fishing scene. Here in Thorne Bay the several fishermen are likely to spend several days working on each others boats. This spring they got going twice and limped or were towed back. They really stick together. When I say I'm go'in somewhere over a days run they say "who's go'in w you". The're kinda at a loss when I say we're going alone. I don't think twins are heaver though. So one guy's got twin 50hp and the other has a single of 100hp. Equal hp is the only objective way to compare and after initial purchase most things like fuel burn and maintenance costs are so close it's not worth talking about. Space in the engine compartment being an exception. If you're going to compare old twin and single GB 36s (or a lot of other Lehman powered trawlers) the regular situation dos'nt apply because the twin has two engines of the same size as in DOUBLE the power. Not comparable. When ever I talk about this I think of that GB 36 that had twin 55hp Yanmars. I think they should have made them like that.
Conrad
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I think that is a totally incorrect assumtion.* With one exception EVERY engine shutdown that has occured to us or people we know has been due to cooling issues, not fuel issues.* The one exception was when I made an error during a fuel transfer and one of the engines got a big slug of air and quit.* Not wanting to bleed it in the rough-ish water we were in and needing to get our guests home by a certain time we tied off the shaft and came home on one.
But cooling issues, I think, are far more likely to be a problem with an engine than fuel unless one lives in a place where lousy fuel is the norm, not the exception.* I have talked to people who have had a problem with the fuel system on an engine, and we've had one--- a pinholed injection pipe.* But in all these cases, the problem was with one engine (or their only engine) and in all the cases we know of the engine did not have to be shut down.
So in my opinion, this notion that bad fuel causes both engines of a twin to shut down, while certainly theoretically possible, is something that rarely occurs in reality.
Most commercial fishing boats have one engine because (a) it's a big engine, (b) it's less expensive to run one engine instead of two and expenses are a major deal to commercial fishermen, (c) the designs of the boats make one engine the ideal configuration, (d) the engine in a commercial fishing boat is pretty easy to access and service and (d) the engines receive the sort of maintenance that's required to keep it running reliably, in no small part because it's so easy to access the engine.
*We have had three engine shutdowns over the years. The first was due to debris in the raw water impeller, the second was a plugged suction line to the raw water strainer, and the third was due to improperly installed (by a professional diesel mechanic) belts that ran, among other things, the raw water pump.
Have had water in the fuel tanks, but this was caught via regular filter checks.
FF
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Many engine problems are from poor or lack of maint.
Sure hoses blow , fan belts die ,and impeller pumps need impellers , but ALL these will be caught with a PM program.
An operator can control PM , but seldom has much that can be done with bad fuel.
IF the boat had a better built marine fuel tank, this too could be part of the PM, but too many "tanks" are simple boxes of fuel, not really MARINE FUEL TANKS.
Sure hoses blow , fan belts die ,and impeller pumps need impellers , but ALL these will be caught with a PM program.
An operator can control PM , but seldom has much that can be done with bad fuel.
IF the boat had a better built marine fuel tank, this too could be part of the PM, but too many "tanks" are simple boxes of fuel, not really MARINE FUEL TANKS.
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GW, you talk about maintenance and cost of sails. I do not know if you are including riggin in that category or not but one must maintain the rig as well. And if you are offshore cruising, you must maintain quite a spare parts inventory and the knowledge to know what to do with it.
Our shrimping fleet here on the gulf coast are all single engine.
Now, are commercial ships singles for the same reasons mentioned?...PS...they do go VERY far from port!
Our shrimping fleet here on the gulf coast are all single engine.
Now, are commercial ships singles for the same reasons mentioned?...PS...they do go VERY far from port!
Edelweiss
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Baker wrote:
/>
Our shrimping fleet here on the gulf coast are all single engine.
Now, are commercial ships singles for the same reasons mentioned?...PS...they do go VERY far from port!
-----------------------
I know a married couple who are both marine engineers, we're talking cargo ships, and hearing how they operate and maintain those ships is a completely different world than us. At sea they can fix almost anything short of rebuilding the main. Complete inventories of parts, pumps and accessories. They carry their own marine hardware store and mechanics. Major engine repairs are actually performed by the manufacture under a maintenance contract. They pull into port a crew comes aboard, pulls the head off one cylinder, lifts the piston and rod out with a overhead crane and does routine maintenance on that cylinder and running gear. Then Puts it back together in time for their scheduled sailing.
I think this is a damn good idea!! I just need to find someplace to put the mechanic and all the spare parts! LMAO!!
-- Edited by Edelweiss on Saturday 15th of October 2011 10:23:48 AM
/>
Our shrimping fleet here on the gulf coast are all single engine.
Now, are commercial ships singles for the same reasons mentioned?...PS...they do go VERY far from port!
-----------------------
I know a married couple who are both marine engineers, we're talking cargo ships, and hearing how they operate and maintain those ships is a completely different world than us. At sea they can fix almost anything short of rebuilding the main. Complete inventories of parts, pumps and accessories. They carry their own marine hardware store and mechanics. Major engine repairs are actually performed by the manufacture under a maintenance contract. They pull into port a crew comes aboard, pulls the head off one cylinder, lifts the piston and rod out with a overhead crane and does routine maintenance on that cylinder and running gear. Then Puts it back together in time for their scheduled sailing.
I think this is a damn good idea!! I just need to find someplace to put the mechanic and all the spare parts! LMAO!!
-- Edited by Edelweiss on Saturday 15th of October 2011 10:23:48 AM
sunchaser
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Five years or so ago Dashew*reported on his all in costs to operate a sailboat vs an efficient trawler, with the trawler less cost. This is what drove him to design and build the FPBs. Last year he reported on the Windhorse costs and re-iterating the lower costs of power vs sail. He*detailed costs showing* that an efficient blue water sailing*rig is surprisingly expensive. Sails, fittings, sheets*and lines do not last forever. Credit Beebe, PAE, Northern Marine etc for opening our eyes on alternatives to sailing on long passages.
bobc
Senior Member
I'm surprised that engine access hasn't been discussed more. I like twins, they're fun to dock, but on the size boats I like to own, the amount of space around the engines, particularly on the outboard side, is often very limited with twins. Not only is maintenance easier with a single, but I only have to change oil, zincs, coolant, etc on one engine. It's much easier to keep on top of things. That more than anything else is why I went with a single.
One other factor with older boats is the options you have when it comes time to rebuild or re-power. You can always rebuild one engine at a time, but if you want to re-power with new engines, unless that engine is still manufactured, you're likely to have to replace both engines at the same time. That can be pretty expensive.
One other factor with older boats is the options you have when it comes time to rebuild or re-power. You can always rebuild one engine at a time, but if you want to re-power with new engines, unless that engine is still manufactured, you're likely to have to replace both engines at the same time. That can be pretty expensive.
dwhatty
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One of the reasons, not the only one but a significant one, that we sold our old woodie that had twin Chrysler Nissan diesels. Just the thought of the repowering costs (new engines, new beds, etc.) was sobering.
Edelweiss
Guru
Ok......I'm over the edge with curiosity here??? After 30 years of listening to my sailboater neighbor (who I share a slip with) calling my boat a " stink pot", griping every time I roll an engine, complaining about engine noise, diesel smell, etc. What is with all you ex-sailboaters buying diesel trawlers??
I always thought that would be like an ice cubes chance in hell??
:ashamed:
LB
-- Edited by Edelweiss on Saturday 15th of October 2011 08:08:29 PM
I always thought that would be like an ice cubes chance in hell??
:ashamed:
LB
-- Edited by Edelweiss on Saturday 15th of October 2011 08:08:29 PM
markpierce
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If your sailboater friend isn't engineless, he's just being a hypocrite giving you friendly(?) pokes.* If he has an engine, he is subject to the same.
*I expect that a high proportion of trawler folk are ex-sailors, like me.* Traveling at eight knots or less doesn't seem slow to us.
-- Edited by markpierce on Saturday 15th of October 2011 09:08:32 PM
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Tony B
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*Not all sailors are 'purists'. I sail because I like the sensation of sailing - plain and simple. As Mark stated, they are hypocritical. If they ever turn on their engine for any reason, they are burning fuel. I also assume many sailors drive to their boat and not walk.
Most sailing 'purists' that I have met were dock queens and never tyook their boats out anyway. I think they just need to feel superior.
We want to go trawler largely due to our age but don't want to give up boating. Inland waterways *will be new to us and I have always loved running rivers anyway. I see the type of boating as a trade-off. I love the sensation and sense of freedom of sailing the open Gulf of Mex and on the otherhand, open water is very boring. As far as 'visual', rivers and lakes are much prettier.
In our quest to sell our sailboat and get a trawler, the cost of fuel is going to be a major consideration.
I am also checking out houseboats on the internet. If we stay inland, a Houseboat will give us more living space for the dollar. The major drawback to a houseboat is that their is nothing 'salty' or bpaty about it.
Then there is the other option - upgrade the sailboat inside and out and take it inland. My mast is 51' above the waterline. I think I can make it up the Tenn-Tom Waterway atleast to Kentucky. If I have to drop the masts, that too is an option.
Although my sailboat is currently for sale and I just started to work on changing the layout in the main salon. This will cost me about $3K, maybe a little more. One way or another, we are going to become river rats.
FF
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"My mast is 51' above the waterline."
One option might be an inshore stick.
At a lower 20 or 30 ft , a used rig would allow day sailing and keep the mast advantages , for sun covers , rain catchers , and radar height. A boat powered this way will not ghost , but in a modest breeze , say 10K+, sailing fun will still happen.
The long term value of the boat will not be compromised , but the inshore use will be far handier.
One option might be an inshore stick.
At a lower 20 or 30 ft , a used rig would allow day sailing and keep the mast advantages , for sun covers , rain catchers , and radar height. A boat powered this way will not ghost , but in a modest breeze , say 10K+, sailing fun will still happen.
The long term value of the boat will not be compromised , but the inshore use will be far handier.
markpierce
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FF
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Sure , what ever fits with the desired cruising area bridges.
On a real sailboat the boat will actually sail well, just a bit slower for the same breeze.
With the minor angle of heel low sails generate , an autopilot cruise is even more enjoyable.
And when it blows 30K , you can still white knuckle the tiller , and play the "Victory at Sea" music!
On a real sailboat the boat will actually sail well, just a bit slower for the same breeze.
With the minor angle of heel low sails generate , an autopilot cruise is even more enjoyable.
And when it blows 30K , you can still white knuckle the tiller , and play the "Victory at Sea" music!
Beatrice Coyne
Member
We are looking to do the same thing -from sail to trawler. Any suggestions for possible trade? Beatrice
Beatrice Coyne
Member
Any possibility for trading in a world class hinckley sailing yacht for a trawler.
Yes, we are looking to buy a trawler and sell our sailing vessel. Does anyone know if there is any possible trade activity amongst the 2?
Yes, we are looking to buy a trawler and sell our sailing vessel. Does anyone know if there is any possible trade activity amongst the 2?
healhustler
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Beatrice Coyne
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Classic beauty, classic lines
It is the Bermuda '40. It was inducted into the hall of fame for sailing vessels one of the 5 chosen. This is hull #5, yawl design. Hull #6 was purchased by the Rockefeller family. Interesting history, the designer is William Tripp, the maker hinckley. It was the first time that hinckley went from wood hull to laying up fiberglass. Since they were not familiar with the process, they made them thick, rock solid. She was made for blue water sailing, comfortable cruising and as the name suggests, a racer as well. She just completed a total inside outside refurb and has never looked better. Her bright work has 8 coats of epiphanies. She is a thing of beauty. Now that she is ready to go.... My husband wants to cruise by trawler. Go figure? We know we will never get what it cost to buy her and refurbish her, so we are throwing out the possibility that perhaps someone out there wants to sail instead of motor their trawler of similar provenance. The universe works in mysterious ways!
I've sailed Hinckleys, which model is the world class one.
It is the Bermuda '40. It was inducted into the hall of fame for sailing vessels one of the 5 chosen. This is hull #5, yawl design. Hull #6 was purchased by the Rockefeller family. Interesting history, the designer is William Tripp, the maker hinckley. It was the first time that hinckley went from wood hull to laying up fiberglass. Since they were not familiar with the process, they made them thick, rock solid. She was made for blue water sailing, comfortable cruising and as the name suggests, a racer as well. She just completed a total inside outside refurb and has never looked better. Her bright work has 8 coats of epiphanies. She is a thing of beauty. Now that she is ready to go.... My husband wants to cruise by trawler. Go figure? We know we will never get what it cost to buy her and refurbish her, so we are throwing out the possibility that perhaps someone out there wants to sail instead of motor their trawler of similar provenance. The universe works in mysterious ways!
Beatrice Coyne
Member
Personally, I will have a hard time giving up on my dream boat (sail). I love being off shore out of sight of land and under the stars. However, my partner is getting less nimble. He is the captain and pays the bills but does not have the sailing bug like me. Who knows I might have to jump ship.
Beatrice Coyne
Member
I sense a wee bit of sarcasm.
It was not intentional for me to lack sensitivity.
Thank you for bringing it to my attention.
Respectfully,
Beatrice
It was not intentional for me to lack sensitivity.
Thank you for bringing it to my attention.
Respectfully,
Beatrice
Beatrice Coyne
Member
Relieved...
No offense taken. Relieved you recognized my sense of humor. I Love the picture (of you?) in a dinghy on the sand bar. Nice trawler car dude!
No offense taken. Relieved you recognized my sense of humor. I Love the picture (of you?) in a dinghy on the sand bar. Nice trawler car dude!
motion30
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tell me a little about your sailboat
Beatrice Coyne
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Thanks for your interest to shine a little light on my query? I sent a private message to you. Please let me know if you have any specific questions you'd like answered.
sunchaser
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I did a few chores on the Rita Mia, a B40 that won class in the Transpac. It was converted from yawl to sloop to get a better rating for racing purposes. I remember seeing Ondine alongside, that was fun.
